Not that many minerals to give them 3-letter code. 2 letters would be enough. Kind of– Tr, Py, Me, Is, Nx, Zd, Mc, Mr, Vs, Sc, Px, Pl, Om, Ke, Ja, Hm, He, Gn, Do, Cr
Good reference for mineral abbreviations is here (2, 3 and more letters abbreviations). http://www.minsocam.org/MSA/AmMin/TOC/Abstracts/2010_Abstracts/Jan10_Abstracts/Whitney_p185_10.pdf
Good work ccp !
Cool.
Butt hurt players: Moon goo needs nerfing. It is a top down approach and all profits go to alliance head… CCP: I know, lets stick a graphic on the miner chunking the moon and then make the pawns mine it because content isn’t already dull enough. Let’s also make a dashboard available to the owner of the refinery so corp/alliance heads can charge the pawns for mining the moon…
SNORE
I have to agree with several others here: having the corporate ledger record exactly who mined the ore and exactly when, whether or not they are an alliance or corp member, is an extremely bad idea. It is completely anti-EVE to provide that kind of intel for free, especially when you were not online and there to observe it. It doesn’t make it that much better that it’s delayed, it is a PERFECT automatic record of who, when, and where.
The game does not do this if your loot is stolen or even if you are just attacked; only killmails provide an equivalent record for non-consensual player interaction. Trades and contracts record this kind of information, but that’s interaction with player consent.
So if you try to ninja-mine resources, the owning corp gets to find out:
- Who did it
- When they did it (when do you play and how often)
- Where (where do you play)
- How much was mined (what kind of ship you probably used)
- How much time passed between mining sessions (helps to bound how far away you might have hauled it before coming back)
All of the above is recorded without any effort by the corporation whether or not their corp members were online and around to observe. Where else in the game is this done? Absolutely nowhere. The feature seems explicitly designed to prevent theft by almost guaranteeing retribution.
Something really reeks here: this feature seems explicitly designed to entirely favor large alliances and corps. I guess we know who both CCP and the CSM are in bed with.
2 Likes
Jin’taan
Only if you mine on a structure that someone has put up - this doesn’t apply to any other form of mining in the system.
Can you guarantee that?
Are you certain the ability to track normal mining activities can’t be used to track neutral miners, or as i believe, you are guessing and simply answering as CCP would like.
You yourself have already stated you will be tracking neutral miners “if” you end up holding moons and will kill them for not paying you what you believe you are owed.
CCP have stated the API in the mining ledger can be used to track ALL normal mining activities - I don’t see where it says “only of your group”…
CCP is allowing you and others to collect private information on players who ninja mine moons - Why would it not carry over to other mining operations?
IS CCP writing 2 different mining ledgers - One for moons the other for “other mining” - Oh wait, they aren’t…
Contradicting yourself is one reason I am questioning this whole thing, I thought a member of the CSM might at least tell us the truth (not make it up as he goes), where CCP tell us nothing.
2 Likes
Nice to see this thread got the above average morons to post.
PS; If I’m in your space, combat probing and Dscan won’t tell you where I am or what I am up to. At least not until too late…
From experience - You either dock up or call in your mains from NC. to deal with any problems.
As for your tax deal - Are you sure that is how it will work… CCP haven’t said so, maybe you know more than the rest of us.
See the biggest problem with this release, like many before it - Devs haven’t released enough information to make giving feedback valid - Guessing just gives Devs a free ride to release whatever shite they think will work and allow them years to “balance” what should have been “balanced” at release.
If you are right, ninja mining is a farce.
According to you - I go ninja mine a bunch of RMT moons because they have no presence in my TZ - And RMT get to tax me on what i steal - How fukin broken is that.
There is a reason people don’t use red to me Poco’s for their PI production (the moron strength is high with this comment).
Comeon Devs - Give us some relevant information. 2 weeks to till live and we still don’t know how the most controversial mechanic (mining ledger) works .
Or at least what it can and cannot be used for. How taxes if any are applied. How it can be used to tax and track normal mining operations. ETC.
Sat through hours of fukin streams from fanfest and vegas and aside from getting a laugh at Fozzies expense, with his extended pause for applause - and got none. Nothing new was revealed about moon mining. Rehashing what was announced months earlier doesn’t clear up any of the hundreds of questions posed in numerous threads.
2 Likes
OK, I am going to be positive about the MGN’17.
There will be an obvious balance issue between the effort and cost of setting up the rig and destroying/looting the folks who pay that cost. Obviously, citadels will be hard to kill and ninja looters wont be ninja looters (they will be wage slaves paying tax), because otherwise all the moon goo farmers will down tools and go play civ 6.
BUT… I noticed that the distribution of rare moon goo will be revised so that it is random.
If this means that every null sec pocket will give SOME of everything, over time for a given constellation, then that would be actually kind of cool.
One of the big barriers to small corp (constellation size) entry into moon goo is that the moons required to complete the production chains are spread in the very low true sec systems (<-0.5). So only the big alliances have those, which means you need to go to market to buy the missing types of moon goo.
And once you are there, well you may as well buy all the types, not mine moons, leave that to the alliances, and make your margin with manufacturing skills and rigs.
If every constellation was able to support the full production chain for T2, I can get behind the new changes as a way to make empty nul (-0.1to-0.5 true sec) viable and interesting again.
If the same bottlenecks exist for the rare moon goo types, well death the devs and eve is dying and I unsubb and so on and so forth.
Yes and that API is only available to you.
The structure API only applies to the mining done on the group owned structure. It does not track other mining in the system. In order to track other mining you would have to provide your API to an organisation.
They are two seperate API endpoints.
We did discuss having a system wide API for mining but in general we felt it would be something that was too powerful a tool to provide, alongside the fact that an individual API could be used to make up most/all positive use cases.
IMO, the personal API exposes way too much information to whoever is given a key. Since the new SSO effectively never expires it puts too much onus on the player to clean out their keys on a regular basis.
Sov holders should have visibility on their spaces given an appropriate ADM and monitoring structures.
There is an API gap for fleet level ops. It should have the immediacy of the personal API but not the permanent tracking capability. When a fleet member leaves fleet so should the data on what they mine until they rejoin.
2 Likes
How is that different from being able to kill your siphons now? I don’t hear you screaming about making your siphons cloaky and unscannable for “mah privacies”
because anomolies and asteroid belts don’t require a platform to blast the moon, tractor in the crust and blow it up. the platform is providing “CCTV” or some type of surveillance on the field 24/7. You want to go in there? it’s going to record your activity. simple as that. try going into a RL open pit mine that runs 24/7 and take something from there. thats what surveillance is for. i’m sorry that offends your social justice warrior sensibilities about privacy, little snowflake.
Nope, just a guess. It sounds like surveillance to me.
Not sure where you are going with that, because yes you are a moron, so thanks for pointing that out
No automatic taxation, its just a ledger of information about what happened. Corps can use or ignore the list of names, in any way they want.
Simple solution - Don’t give them a key.
I agree there - A ‘Session Limited’ API key would make some amount of sense, but I don’t have any technical grounding on why/how/if that would be useful. @steve_ronuken ?
biggest issue is how to limit the data from the api.
The personal one is the last 90 days. And it’s in ‘day’ chunks (the current day just updating as it goes)
So that’d be an expansion of the data storage required.
What I have done is; taken a squad of miners via a wormhole into Sovereignty held space. A crew of ventures and prospects, ok. We mined some of the rare stuff, and felt daring about it. Space which has improved mining thanks to an anchored structure. The difference is that iHub does not provide free intel - but now a Refinery will.
So there is some major worry about tax avoidance by miners. Having people being able to rob their corp has been a hallmark of Eve since the beginning. Trust has been a key property of game. But you don’t trust miners?
So The Judge can steal an entire alliance and there is high-fives across New Eden, but a tax-dodging miner?! - woop woop, bat-phone the dev police.
1 Like
That intel will only be provided if you mine on the Refinery’s structure. You are free to mine ABC ores in Anoms as ninjas with 0 repercussions as is currently the case.
The fact that you know The Judge did it is kind of the point here. No-one could stop him from doing it, but everyone knows he did it.You are still 100% able to steal from people, in fact I encourage it as it’s now massively more profitable. People will just know if you steal from the structures they put up.
So when you said -
Fleet mining trackers will likely be created using the API that the ledger has.
You were, making it up, guessing, stating something that can’t be done or other?
As I said in a previous post - We have a member of the CSM telling us one thing, then something different relating to the same thing and Devs telling us nothing…
Just what is the scope of these API end points - How will/can they be manipulated by code savvy players using the tools Devs are providing.
2 Likes
bear in mind:
Yes, they’ll know you’ve mined in the moon belt. But it’s deliberately delayed data.
No I meant that in the case of people in fleets will be able to give their API to an FC so that mining ops can give shares out more efficiently (I.e paying haulers and miners). That will not account to you unless you willingly choose to give your API to the person running said mining fleet. I was using it as an example of what the individual API could do, as I thought was very clear in context as the person I was talking to was specifically asking about the personal ledger - not the Refinery Ledger, which are two seperate topics.
1 Like
To clarify a few things:
-
There is NO automatic taxation built in to any of the mining ledgers whatsoever. The ledgers have no interaction with any wallets. It is purely a log. The viewer of the ledger is then free to request/offer whatever compensation he feels he can enforce.
(We did look at a few ideas about how such automatic taxation/billing/invoicing might work, but no system we could build would be flexible enough to support every use case. So that is why we just give you the data, and let you decide what to do with it.) -
Only you can see your own personal mining ledger in the client. Only your keys can allow access to your personal mining ledger via ESI. You are in total control who you give those keys to. If you choose not to share it, no one else can ever see your personal mining ledger.
-
The corporation ledger generated by a refinery at a moon logs mining done ONLY on asteroids extracted from the moon by that structure. This ledger will track mining done by all characters on these specific asteroids, regardless of corp affiliation. Mining activity at other moons, in static belts, in anomaly belts, or in any other site is totally invisible to this structure. A refinery anchored anywhere else does not produce any ledger data. (As someone described above, you can imagine there is a CCTV camera built in to the moon drill module that points at its own asteroids)
1 Like