EVE General Discussion

 
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eveiseasy.com closed, RL scammers??

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#21 - 2012-04-22 20:25:21 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Here are the chat logs

http://pastebin.com/UzFuM0QM

EVE is about drama ... and making spaceships explode - eveiseasy delivers on both.

I am not a subscriber but I did watch the videos when they were free. Good stuff and that is why I think you will be able to turn this around. I'd say $19 was greedy but $5 is actually quite reasonable. Good luck.
#22 - 2012-04-22 20:39:36 UTC
Regardless of who's running the shop now at EVE is Easy, I wouldn't put strong odds on long term success. Reading through that chat log, it doesn't look like any of them have any business acumen, whatsoever. They started a business between four "partners" without a written partnership contract? Even a basic contract would spell out who gets what, when, penalties for non-compliance, and terms for severance. Having such a contract means there wouldn't be anyone whining about not getting their fair share, or changing terms as they go along. They also should have formed a corporation or LLC and transferred the ownership of all company assets to that legal entity before the site was even launched, exactly so that one partner can't hold the domain hostage. This isn't really complex **** here, we're talking Business 101. Sounds like this cluster **** was an amateur operation doomed to failure from its inception. Good riddance to a poor business plan, I say.

Caldari State
#23 - 2012-04-22 20:39:37 UTC
I'm gonna tl;dr the chat logs for everybody:


  • Garmon + abaddon21 build EIE.com, abaddon21 gets 25% of all sales mainly for the idea + setup
  • Garmon says he'll pay abaddon21 in one week
  • Garmon realizes that was a mistake and wants to wait until CCP responds and 30 days pass in case lots of people want refunds
  • Abaddon21 freaks out that he might get cut out of his 25% and demands his money at the one week mark (there's some haggling over whether the pay date was Sat or Sun but it doesn't matter)
  • Garmon says chill, bu abaddon21 is in full berserk mode and takes down the site, etc
  • Garmon has everything backed up at E-I-E.com


I want to back Garmon on this but if you make a really bad deal and then go back on it then that is not cool. Even if your intentions are good for the customers, you have to make good on the deal you made even if it was a horrible one.

The meltdown that abaddon21 has is pretty funny in my opinion, I have no idea why he did not just wait a single day or another week and he could have made some sweet $$$. Abaddon21 definitely played this very badly and very unprofessionally in the end.

All in all I just see this whole thing as disgusting. The people who subscribe to the website suck, the people who made the website suck, and all of the business partners suck.
Kengutsi Akira
#24 - 2012-04-22 20:52:43 UTC
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Welp.....THAT's story #3 I've heard about it so far.

Next. Roll


whats #1 and #2?

TriadSte wrote:
stuff




isnt posting chat logs moderateable here?


this and this

or doesnt that matter anymore?

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes

#25 - 2012-04-22 20:55:18 UTC
Vaal Erit wrote:
I'm gonna tl;dr the chat logs for everybody:


  • Garmon + abaddon21 build EIE.com, abaddon21 gets 25% of all sales mainly for the idea + setup
  • Garmon says he'll pay abaddon21 in one week
  • Garmon realizes that was a mistake and wants to wait until CCP responds and 30 days pass in case lots of people want refunds
  • Abaddon21 freaks out that he might get cut out of his 25% and demands his money at the one week mark (there's some haggling over whether the pay date was Sat or Sun but it doesn't matter)
  • Garmon says chill, bu abaddon21 is in full berserk mode and takes down the site, etc
  • Garmon has everything backed up at E-I-E.com



The funniest part is that this is all over $1750 USD. That either party would get so worked up over chicken **** money is the hysterical part. I've seen business partners go control freak before over money, that's not even rare. But usually, it's over tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions, etc. People start fixating on that yacht they're going to buy with their share, and "I wants my monies now." It's also not rare to have one business partner string along another for days, weeks, months on getting their money, usually while some underhanded backroom **** is going on. But seriously, $1750 makes you flip like Cheetah? Maybe you should stick to running a lemonade stand on the corner, kid.
#26 - 2012-04-22 21:18:02 UTC
Hatch Nasty wrote:
Regardless of who's running the shop now at EVE is Easy, I wouldn't put strong odds on long term success. Reading through that chat log, it doesn't look like any of them have any business acumen, whatsoever. They started a business between four "partners" without a written partnership contract? Even a basic contract would spell out who gets what, when, penalties for non-compliance, and terms for severance. Having such a contract means there wouldn't be anyone whining about not getting their fair share, or changing terms as they go along. They also should have formed a corporation or LLC and transferred the ownership of all company assets to that legal entity before the site was even launched, exactly so that one partner can't hold the domain hostage. This isn't really complex **** here, we're talking Business 101. Sounds like this cluster **** was an amateur operation doomed to failure from its inception. Good riddance to a poor business plan, I say.


+1

I see a group of people that got greedy when the first $ hit their payment system. Agreements broken, bad business decisions. It's a mess. Both sides on that equation are acting like complete bung holes.
Cynosural Field Theory.
#27 - 2012-04-22 21:18:45 UTC
This kids, is why you have to trust aunt lanyaie with your money and not some random guy you know over the internet

Spaceprincess

People who put passwords on char bazaar Eveboards are the worst.

Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-04-22 21:29:11 UTC
"[...] Because sooner or later, everyone you looked up to turns out to suck anyway." (Jello Biafra)

That's all I got to say about that.Ugh

Ni.

#29 - 2012-04-22 21:57:23 UTC
Whodafuq would pay RL money for anything EvE-related to anyone other than CCP?

WTFQuestion
#30 - 2012-04-22 22:01:04 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Hatch Nasty wrote:
Regardless of who's running the shop now at EVE is Easy, I wouldn't put strong odds on long term success. Reading through that chat log, it doesn't look like any of them have any business acumen, whatsoever. They started a business between four "partners" without a written partnership contract? Even a basic contract would spell out who gets what, when, penalties for non-compliance, and terms for severance. Having such a contract means there wouldn't be anyone whining about not getting their fair share, or changing terms as they go along. They also should have formed a corporation or LLC and transferred the ownership of all company assets to that legal entity before the site was even launched, exactly so that one partner can't hold the domain hostage. This isn't really complex **** here, we're talking Business 101. Sounds like this cluster **** was an amateur operation doomed to failure from its inception. Good riddance to a poor business plan, I say.


+1

I see a group of people that got greedy when the first $ hit their payment system. Agreements broken, bad business decisions. It's a mess. Both sides on that equation are acting like complete bung holes.



All of this

Murphy asked Paddy "What ringtone have you got ?" Paddy said, "I've never really looked, but probably light brown."

#31 - 2012-04-22 22:30:23 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
I see a group of people that got greedy when the first $ hit their payment system. Agreements broken, bad business decisions. It's a mess. Both sides on that equation are acting like complete bung holes.


What I see is the fate that faces 99% of small businesses partnerships that I have ever seen: things appear to go swimmingly until the group has to face the reality about (a) money not being easy to handle due to legislative constraints or the operation of your payment processor, and (b) things not always going to plan.

At the very least, the financial plan of the company when it is formed should state who is collecting what money and how it is expected to be distributed. This plan should also include entry and exit options so that new members can join and old members can leave and at every step the partners know who is owed what money.

Proper planning prevents **** poor performance.

If you think Abaddon was being "greedy" you should see the marketing/sales/business types I've had to deal with. They'll make it seem like setting up a business and preparing a marketing strategy is really really hard, then ask for 20-40% of your company's income in perpetuity.

As for Abaddon's marketing: if you're after money, you go for where the easy money is. That is the PT Barnum crowd of "a fool and his money are easily parted." It is much harder to get money from people who don't want to spend it. So you go for the low hanging fruit of people who think you have a service worth paying for. This does mean that you end up behaving as if your customers are idiots, because they are (and they know it, and they're willing to pay you to help them stop being idiots).

Truth of business marketing 101 there, I'm afraid.

Abaddon and Garmon just have different approaches to running a business. Their "business ship" encountered some bad weather (the "our IP belongs to us" message from CCP), and none on that ship was prepared to handle the situation properly. Poor planning, poor communication, poor temper management: the outcome being their chat logs posted on every forum from sunup to sunset.

It would have been better for all involved if they had not aired their dirty laundry in public. But you will all forget, and next month you will be falling over yourselves to throw money at "EVE Is Easy", and none will remember this fracas (or you'll be laughing at the people who bring it up).
Beat General
#32 - 2012-04-23 00:30:44 UTC
Heres what happened..

Garmon and friends want to make PVP tutorial videos. At some point they are approached by this Abbadon21 guy who promises them riches and glory. He tells them "Let me do the marketing, you just make the videos."

He tells them to sell the subscription to the videos for $20 a month, garmon and friends say that this is too much. He tells them about his "10 years of marketing expertise". So they reluctantly follow his lead.

Almost all of the work was being done by Garmon and friends, Abbadon was the brains behind the operation.

Heres the problem, when the site was launched, Abbadon's sleazy marketing video and insanely high prices caused most of the community to dismiss the website and smeared Garmon's reputation.

With that being such a failure, I personally would kick Abbadon out of the party because of his incompetence and bad business plan... But for some reason they decided to keep him aboard.

They listened to the community and decided on a much more reasonable $5 dollars a month. (Similar to a very successful WoW PvP tutorial website.) Abbadon did not like this.

Abbadon demands 25% of the money made so far from garmon, garmon makes a mistake and promises him the money in a week. The other two parties Will, and Duncan tell garmon this is a mistake. Something to do with refunds and CCP's policys still not being clear. Abbadon logs on at 12:00 am sunday to demand his money, Garmon says to do the deal later in the day, when everybody is rested and can think straight. Abbadon demands that he also makes 25% of every profit that that eie.com makes in the future. No matter how much. At this point Garmon and friends don't think that is reasonable. Seeing as the only thing he did was come up with a terrible marketing plan that nearly failed.

Abbadon goes beserk and demands something like 8k money upfront or he will close the website down for good and smear their names on it. Sounds like blackmail to me. Garmon and friends offer him his share of the money (1.7k) but he refuses constantly and demands 8k. He continues to cry like a baby and then posts slander on the website domain.

Garmon and friends take all their work and make a new website. Shows how much work abbadon did.

It's all in the chatlogs, if you want to take a look.
Kengutsi Akira
#33 - 2012-04-23 01:25:21 UTC
Beat General wrote:


It's all in the chatlogs, if you want to take a look.


again... posting those usually gets you moderated... who do you all know in CCP?

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes

#34 - 2012-04-23 01:31:36 UTC
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
again... posting those usually gets you moderated... who do you all know in CCP?


It is still weekend in Iceland. CCP is usually slow with moderation in the days leading up to Friday from Monday.
#35 - 2012-04-23 01:51:40 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
again... posting those usually gets you moderated... who do you all know in CCP?


It is still weekend in Iceland. CCP is usually slow with moderation in the days leading up to Friday from Monday.


Yes and they could be waiting for their lawyers office to open too, so they can be used as evidence in their potential lawsuit for not getting a license to use their copyrighted material for commercial use. (j/k)

Along with the twenty seven eight-by-ten color glossy photographs with circles
and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each
one was to be used as evidence against them. But I digress.
C C P Alliance
#36 - 2012-04-23 11:24:48 UTC
Not relevant to EVE General Discussion.

Thread locked.

Also please note that it is not allowed to use CCP's IP for monetization without prior permission from CCP. If you have specific questions about this topic, please file a petition.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer

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