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Establishments in Winter 2011 Expansion, yes or no?

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#21 Posted: 2011.10.06 14:53  |  Edited by: mechtech
FiS is the priority of the winter expansion, I can guarantee there won't be establishments in it. We don't even have the 3 other captains quarters yet, so obviously the art assets for establishments are not yet done. As for the multiplayer networking for player avatars, I bet that's still in development as well.

If I were to guess, judging by my 10+ expansions that I've seen CCP roll out over the years, I'd say that winter will have the other captains quarters, the expansion after will let you invite other people to your room (and have a few other WiS features), and the expansion after will have the first iteration of establishments.

To be frank, Incarna had no content, Tyrannis was a minigame, and Dominion was a failure. The last good (and man was it good) expansion that we had was Apocrypha 1.5 years ago, so CCP has a ton of catching up to do to ensure that players have a reason to play the game. They took verbal flak, and CCP has recently started to lose a fair share of subscribers. The next 2 expansions will almost certainly be centered around engaging gameplay content.
The Explicit Alliance
#22 Posted: 2011.10.06 15:00
Agreed, when i found this game i found it to be completely awesome when i started. It still is, but they need to address the things they have not finished yet. I can say that from when i started about 1.75 years ago the game has changed a great deal, it also seems to have broken some things along the way, especially where it concerns ship balancing (namely the gallente ships). It's terrible game mechanics when the minmatar are referred to as the "Winmatar" and all new players are heartily urged to abandon their racial heritage in favor of the FOTM. Even the caldari known to be the favored class for PVE with the EWAR owneveryone PVP ships overshadow the gallente... sigh.

I must give them absolute kudos though on the best game i've ever played even despite it's flaws. They truly aren't doing a bad job, and it's not the indians at the desk fault for the issues. Hilmars letter, sincere or not (however you feel about it) steps up and accepts the blame for the issues. The desk jockeys that put this code together for us are simply doing what they are told, they don't get to write their own checks so let's not smash them upside the head to much.

Good Job CCP, you can do it better than the rest, now give us the great game it is. And yes, i personally want the WiS. I want a freaking lazor gun, and i want to shoot that cheating scum of a player at the card table that wins my isk... Twisted
#23 Posted: 2011.10.06 15:08
Lets see at the changes planned and then lets think how this could possibly hinder them to continue with WiS, if they felt committed:

Hybrid weapons balancing --> Takes some math genius as a ressource.
Factional warfare --> mostly quest scripters I guess.
Assault ships --> Math genius again.
Capital ship balancing --> Mr Math again
New T2 modules --> Some icon designer & Mr Math
Starbase logistics management --> see above
New EWAR-Drones --> see above
T2 Rigs manufacturing --> see above
Ship spinning --> done...
New font --> done
More captains quarters --> Done. These are the people working on Incarna and WOD. I highly doubt they need much time from the rest.
Time dilation --> Genius progger and database admin.

So: Mainly it is probably about progress not being fast enough in the Incarna team. The rest is mostly an excuse.

Also, will the above really change much for FiS?

0.0 is supposed to be a lawless place were large groups of players can carve out their own empires and then defend them constantly. It should be a place where you're constantly at war and on your toes. Now... Will the above changes really change much to improve that feeling?

Low Sec is supposed to be a haven for pirates. Do I get extra-Tortuga feeling out of those changes?

Factional Warfare theoretically could be interesting. In the end I'm sure you get a few more missions and perhaps two stations or so.

The rest are small changes.
Gallente Federation
#24 Posted: 2011.10.06 15:09
If you're more concerned about not getting WiS content then you are pleased by the promise of FiS improvements, I would like to kindly ask you to get out.

The future vision trailer was why I resubscribed to eve at the start of the year, but even I can see that that content is far far far less important then refining the game as it currently is. Hilmar's latest devblog has reassured me that I am not wasting my (or someone elses) money.
#25 Posted: 2011.10.06 15:12
DickbeardThePirate wrote:
If you're more concerned about not getting WiS content then you are pleased by the promise of FiS improvements, I would like to kindly ask you to get out.

The future vision trailer was why I resubscribed to eve at the start of the year, but even I can see that that content is far far far less important then refining the game as it currently is. Hilmar's latest devblog has reassured me that I am not wasting my (or someone elses) money.


Talking to me?
If you would be able to read thoroughly, you would see that I think they could do both at the same time?
#26 Posted: 2011.10.06 15:13
Aidan Brooder wrote:
Lets see at the changes planned and then lets think how this could possibly hinder them to continue with WiS, if they felt committed:

Factional warfare --> mostly quest scripters I guess.


I could pick on a lot more but this alone shows up you have zero idea about what you're talking about.

When you genuinely don't have a clue its a lot more intelligent to keep silent than prove you have no idea at all.

Something you may want to consider in future - I would recommend it to you.
#27 Posted: 2011.10.06 15:19
Yes, it is always funny to see the huge number of geniuses on this forum humbling me so efficiently.
I will now crawl back into my cave, embarassed by all the genius your postings on this forum usually express.
#28 Posted: 2011.10.06 15:22  |  Edited by: Othran
Aidan Brooder wrote:
Yes, it is always funny to see the huge number of geniuses on this forum humbling me so efficiently.
I will now crawl back into my cave, embarassed by all the genius your postings on this forum usually express.


Nobody genuinely in FW gives a toss about PVE.

The fact you don't know that but still feel the need to tell us all what you think requires doing in development terms speaks volumes.

Oh and sarcasm won't help you out of the hole you dug for yourself.
#29 Posted: 2011.10.06 15:28
I know what many of you want. You want meaningful FW, as in: Your actions will affect the game universe for other players and the FW players.

That would actually make me join you. But I doubt you get that on the scale you want it, sarcasm aside.

Also, it wasn't my point. My point was avatar and station designers will likely not be needed to improve FW and the other things on the list, so it is likely just an excuse by CCP because said avatar & station designers cannot deliver in time.

And I'm surprised: I thought next you'd tell me you are one of the thousands of game designers on this forum. Perhaps you are not as bad as I thought.
Caldari State
#30 Posted: 2011.10.06 15:30
*sighs* Time to type my post again as the forum decided to eat the last one..

While it's a good thing that FiS is getting some love, I really, REALLY hope CCP finish Incarna first. I remember reading that the other CQ's and multiplayer establishments were just about finished, and I'd hate for WiS to be pushed by the wayside at the last minute and become just another unfinished feature. I, and a lot of other people, have been eagerly awaiting the time when we can finally climb out of our pods and stretch our legs.

I mean, FiS has had content since 2003! That's 8 YEARS of Spaceship content. Is it really that selfish to want WiS?

#31 Posted: 2011.10.06 15:38
No I don't think anyone really expects anything much from any FW "revamp".

What most of us would like is an end to the exploits - even when CCP say they aren't, because it takes too long to fix.

Example - I can have an alt in the Amarr FW corp rep me in the Minnie FW corp while fighting the Amarr FW corp.

He receives no standing hit but should anyone on the Amarr side shoot him then they take a BIG faction standing hit.

I'm quite happy for it to be possible to rep someone in the opposing faction but it should have consequences. It doesn't.

Now we know CCP CAN fix this nonsense because they fixed something very similar in Incursions so its not beyond the wit of man (or Icelander). The question is will they?

That's just the tip of the iceberg regarding FW.

What you're talking about is flipping systems - won't happen IMHO as it will put players off trying it. Having your "stuff" in a station you can't dock in is null-sec sov gaming, not FW.

See what I mean about not understanding Blink
#32 Posted: 2011.10.06 15:53  |  Edited by: Aidan Brooder
I wouldn't go so far to flip whole stations or systems. That definitely would unbalance the game. But to be able to flip some targets, e.g. some radar station and it gives your faction a meaningful "we achieved something" experience and a bonus to e.g. scanning for enemies in that system. Just an example

That - or similar things - were the loud clamour that many wanted for FW. Including me.

You still miss the point of my earlier post though - oblivous to FW problems as I might be: Do you think the people that can correct that bug are the same ones that create avatars and station interiours or textures and mashes and so on?
#33 Posted: 2011.10.06 16:20
Establishments need content. Given the blogs I think we will not see them until there is content. Otherwise they would just be a fashion show. Content CCP has talked about is gambling, and contraband.

Contraband needs new FiS content as well so player enforcers can try and stop player smugglers.

Multi-player environments, gambling, and all the contraband stuff needs programmers, so it may be hard to fit it in with the other stuff on the list.

But it would be nice for CCP to tell us: Establishments this winter: On the list? Off the list? Or a solid maybe?
#34 Posted: 2011.10.06 16:35
The OP must not have been paying much attention to the forums these past few months Lol


Slade
#35 Posted: 2011.10.06 17:16
While I do not mind the refocus to improving the spaceship aspect of the game, I do hope that the Incarna portions get fleshed out. I think, at this point, it's obvious that the more ambitious content of Incarna is unfinished, and that CCP would rather not release an unfinished product again unless they're willing to receive the same backlash they received this summer. (Doubtful.)

On top of this, when are those new nebulae coming out?
C C P Alliance
#36 Posted: 2011.10.06 18:07
Sadly, the Establishments feature will not be coming in the winter expansion. We hear you guys loud and clear and realize that there is still strong support for a multiplayer, avatar based experience in EVE (we also hear those that don’t want it). However, we think you’ll agree that it has to be a compelling experience and there was a feeling amongst our people that the direction we were taking with the Establishments feature was… well, not that fun. Additionally, we wanted to ensure that our rendering technology was finely tuned to a point that would ensure all of your characters continued to look great while performing well.

It’s humbling to see the support in this thread for a multiplayer Incarna experience and we are still committed to providing it, as and when it’s ready. We want to take the time to do it right and ensure you guys get something that is both fun and involving. There are no promises about when this will happen, just rest assured that while you are enjoying your space based updates this winter, there will continue to be movement on this.
CCP Solomon | Technical Producer | EVE Online
@RoryAbbott
#37 Posted: 2011.10.06 18:11
CCP Solomon wrote:
Sadly, the Establishments feature will not be coming in the winter expansion. We hear you guys loud and clear and realize that there is still strong support for a multiplayer, avatar based experience in EVE (we also hear those that don’t want it). However, we think you’ll agree that it has to be a compelling experience and there was a feeling amongst our people that the direction we were taking with the Establishments feature was… well, not that fun. Additionally, we wanted to ensure that our rendering technology was finely tuned to a point that would ensure all of your characters continued to look great while performing well.

It’s humbling to see the support in this thread for a multiplayer Incarna experience and we are still committed to providing it, as and when it’s ready. We want to take the time to do it right and ensure you guys get something that is both fun and involving. There are no promises about when this will happen, just rest assured that while you are enjoying your space based updates this winter, there will continue to be movement on this.



That is what I needed to hear. Accounts cancelled.
Ponies!  We need more ponies!
Pandemic Legion
#38 Posted: 2011.10.06 18:13
CCP Solomon wrote:
Sadly, the Establishments feature will not be coming in the winter expansion. We hear you guys loud and clear and realize that there is still strong support for a multiplayer, avatar based experience in EVE (we also hear those that don’t want it). However, we think you’ll agree that it has to be a compelling experience and there was a feeling amongst our people that the direction we were taking with the Establishments feature was… well, not that fun. Additionally, we wanted to ensure that our rendering technology was finely tuned to a point that would ensure all of your characters continued to look great while performing well.

It’s humbling to see the support in this thread for a multiplayer Incarna experience and we are still committed to providing it, as and when it’s ready. We want to take the time to do it right and ensure you guys get something that is both fun and involving. There are no promises about when this will happen, just rest assured that while you are enjoying your space based updates this winter, there will continue to be movement on this.

Was the right decision to make, FiS is more pressing right now :)

Also glad you are only delaying it and not scrapping it.
Amarr Empire
#39 Posted: 2011.10.06 18:13
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:

That is what I needed to hear. Accounts cancelled.

bye then
EVE is dead
BRABODEN
#40 Posted: 2011.10.06 18:14
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
CCP Solomon wrote:
Sadly, the Establishments feature will not be coming in the winter expansion. We hear you guys loud and clear and realize that there is still strong support for a multiplayer, avatar based experience in EVE (we also hear those that don’t want it). However, we think you’ll agree that it has to be a compelling experience and there was a feeling amongst our people that the direction we were taking with the Establishments feature was… well, not that fun. Additionally, we wanted to ensure that our rendering technology was finely tuned to a point that would ensure all of your characters continued to look great while performing well.

It’s humbling to see the support in this thread for a multiplayer Incarna experience and we are still committed to providing it, as and when it’s ready. We want to take the time to do it right and ensure you guys get something that is both fun and involving. There are no promises about when this will happen, just rest assured that while you are enjoying your space based updates this winter, there will continue to be movement on this.



That is what I needed to hear. Accounts cancelled.



That is what i needed to hear. Alts created and friends invited to EVE! :-)
Don't let them fly safe!
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