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FW: I-hub and system upgrades

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#481 Posted: 2012.10.05 13:45
Taoist Dragon wrote:
How about you can only cap a system that has a capped system ajacent to it.

This would create a 'front line' and would stop a wholesale warzone flip.?


The other changes will stop the wholesale warzone flip, as you'll want to have as many systems as possible all the time.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
#482 Posted: 2012.10.05 22:11
CCP Ytterbium wrote:

  • Q: HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT ENCOURAGING BORDER FIGHTS BEFORE CLAIMING SOVEREIGNTY IN A CENTRAL SYSTEM?

  • A: Yes, we have quite a lot actually. It's a good idea, as it spreads fights along an outer rim of system while giving a geographical meaning to a war effort. However, implementation is very time and resource consuming, which is why we don't have it actually planned for winter.
    [/list]


    This. THIS!

    Soon as please :)

    The reason I got bored of Faction Warfare before, was quite simply, the fights dropped off. It became an exercise in running counters down. It was like watching paint dry for hours on end.

    There has to be a reason to attack and a reason to defend, to encourage the sort of fights that FW can provide. When it happens - they are a total blast, unlike anything else in EvE, because of the site limitations.

    A front line would be a perfect way of making this happen, and remove solo frigate farmers deep in our space - and thus dramatically reducing LP farmers as a big issue. All the do when you enter the plex, is just warp off and they are very hard to catch. Plex sites should also not be doable in a frigate :)

    But anything that can be done for winter, and any point releases, that encourages fights, has to be what FW is all about.
    The Harlequin's
    #483 Posted: 2012.10.09 08:44
    Not sure where to put this idea, but this thread comes closest I think.


    Could CCP split up the LP system in OP and DP Offence point and Defence Points and either give them a separate shop or make them diferent parts of the price in the LP shop.

    So to by a Navy vessle you need a certain amount of defence and offence points, that might bring a little change in all the vunrable systems that no one is going to topple and forces plec farmers to deend as wel as to just offend.
    #484 Posted: 2012.10.09 09:37
    # of systems owned With stations/ # of systems with stations total = basis for tier level

    System upgrades separate from tier.

    only allow 2-3 systems to spawn plexes per week per side. May change depending on who is winning. i.e. winning side has more systems available to attack.

    Lp only from ship/pod and missions (mini arcs as has been proposed).

    Cut iHub shield/armor/structure 50%

    Accidentally spill coffee on the programmers desk which contains the only copy of the code for allowing carriers, supers, dreads, titans, etc to enter fw space. All of those ships will be ejected and beamed to random WH space.

    Ban everyone but fw mains from posting in w&t.

    Everything solved.

    Give me medal for the solution.
    http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com
    #485 Posted: 2012.10.09 16:44  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
    Moonair wrote:

    A front line would be a perfect way of making this happen...

    Fighting in Eve requires both sides to decide to engage (or requires at least one side to derp around unscouted to get ganked)

    Front lines won't solve anything other than allow the dominant side to dominate the frontlines. There will be more blueballing of fleets when one side is larger/more capable than the other. This will lead to fewer fights overall - or more time wasted in stations while the FC comes up with the "perfect fleet" to counter the other sides' "perfect fleet". Boredom will occur.

    One example is from 4 years ago when CCP decide to make an "event" out of Martoh for a weekend. PERVS and Caldari dominated the system. A fight was had, and then the rest of the weekend nothing happened because one side was stronger than the other. Nobody is going to consistently choose to engage in fights if he knows he will lose.

    The current map allows the weaker side to use "guerilla tactics" and actually allows for a variety of engagements from solo to big fleets. For example, if your side is completely overpowered, then all you have to do is move a few systems away from the other side's home system. The current map also encourages each side to spread out to be more effective.

    The "problem" CCP should be solving is how to stop farmers from exploiting the current plexing/LP system without making it too difficult to fight in plexes. The simplest solution was to force somebody running a plex to shoot all the rats. It probably should have been implemented one week into the last patch to see if it would work. But now we're on a different path with new plexes being created, etc.. We'll see what happens in this next iteration.
    #486 Posted: 2012.10.09 21:54
    Rengerel en Distel wrote:
    Taoist Dragon wrote:
    How about you can only cap a system that has a capped system ajacent to it.

    This would create a 'front line' and would stop a wholesale warzone flip.?


    The other changes will stop the wholesale warzone flip, as you'll want to have as many systems as possible all the time.



    I was thinking more in line with giving missions a reason.

    With a 'frontline' being created by only allow systems ajacent to current system being able to be flipped then you wouldn't be able to 'deep strike' into enemy space.

    So then come in missions.
    remove current mission mechanics.

    Have mission randomly spawn in the FW militia window. These missions will be similar to current missions (destroy the supply, kill the commander etc.)

    The mission will be in enemy held space. Once the mission is completed then the enemy held system becomes unlocked to plex. Thus creating a deep strike in enemy space.

    It waould also encourage fleets to run missions so the can unlock a system for plexing and hold said system.
    That is the Way, the Tao.

    Balance is everything.

    http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/
    #487 Posted: 2012.10.09 23:21  |  Edited by: Deen Wispa
    Moonair wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:

  • Q: HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT ENCOURAGING BORDER FIGHTS BEFORE CLAIMING SOVEREIGNTY IN A CENTRAL SYSTEM?

  • A: Yes, we have quite a lot actually. It's a good idea, as it spreads fights along an outer rim of system while giving a geographical meaning to a war effort. However, implementation is very time and resource consuming, which is why we don't have it actually planned for winter.
    [/list]


    This. THIS!

    Soon as please :)

    The reason I got bored of Faction Warfare before, was quite simply, the fights dropped off. It became an exercise in running counters down. It was like watching paint dry for hours on end.

    There has to be a reason to attack and a reason to defend, to encourage the sort of fights that FW can provide. When it happens - they are a total blast, unlike anything else in EvE, because of the site limitations.

    A front line would be a perfect way of making this happen, and remove solo frigate farmers deep in our space - and thus dramatically reducing LP farmers as a big issue. All the do when you enter the plex, is just warp off and they are very hard to catch. Plex sites should also not be doable in a frigate :)

    But anything that can be done for winter, and any point releases, that encourages fights, has to be what FW is all about.


    If you can't defend against enemy farmers who are deep in your space, as you say, then you are doing something wrong. There are still tons of fights to be had. And if you're not getting fights, then you're doing something wrong. You should try finding fights pre inferno...where we had issues finding WTs who roam in a BC gang or higher. In fact, looking at your corp name which had nearly 70 members at its peak but so-so activity, then I'm confident in saying that you were/are doing something wrong.

    And besides, there already is a frontline. It's called Eha vs Vlillrier/Oicx. Or Nennamalia vs Enaluri. Or Nisuwa vs Rakapas. Or Old Man Star/Ladistier vs Heydielies. Tons of fights in these areas depending on timezones.
    High Five. Yeah!
    C'est La Eve .
    Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
    #488 Posted: 2012.10.10 07:52  |  Edited by: Veshta Yoshida
    "Time and resource consuming" my ass Big smile

    Double VP/LP gain from plexes in systems with enemy adjacent.
    Halve VP/LP gain from plexes in systems with no enemy adjacent.
    Triple LP-for-Kills in plexes in systems with enemy adjacent.

    How can adding static modifiers be a dev resource hog .. should even be relatively easy to determine adjacents as flips will still be completed during the DT database runs.

    @Deen: Is that a frontline and not merely a pipe/homesteads?. We have the same sort of thing going on Amarr/Shakorite front with Amamake-Auga-Kourmonen-Kamela/Huola .. basically just the chained systems connecting high-sec exits on the two sides.
    #489 Posted: 2012.10.13 18:09
    i would like it if they could remove the reduced clone cost and replaced it with the ability to buy clones with LP directly...

    that way i could save isk for more important things...
    There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
    Winter Expansion new ship request
    RAZOR Alliance
    #490 Posted: 2012.10.14 13:49
    Not sure if this has been suggested, but 25 pages is a lot to go through..


    I know I'll take some flack for this.. But to reduce the farming of the sites, perhaps add a few webbing cruisers, frigs, BS to the sites so that you can't just orbit and speedtank everything for the time it takes.
    Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
    #491 Posted: 2012.10.14 15:57
    Soko99 wrote:
    Not sure if this has been suggested, but 25 pages is a lot to go through....

    Not sure if making excuses for not reading before posting or posting in the wrong thread is worse .. hahahahaBig smile

    Bottom sticky, called "FW: NPC and you" or something like that, is the thread you are looking for. To save you some time however, let me just say Sleeper level AI and super-speedy NPC inties.

    The fact that the NPC thread has been gathering dust for months now can only mean that the majority of us are rather happy with CCP's chosen solution .. I know I am .. exceeded my expectations handedly (had/have low expectations though, because :CCP:, but still Smile)
    #492 Posted: 2012.10.14 17:00
    Veshta Yoshida wrote:


    The fact that the NPC thread has been gathering dust for months now can only mean that the majority of us are rather happy with CCP's chosen solution .. I know I am .. exceeded my expectations handedly (had/have low expectations though, because :CCP:, but still Smile)



    Well, they are pretty much ok, except for the fact that defensive plexing can still be done afk in gunless frigates as far as I know. They should really adress that last issue.
    Imperial Outlaws.
    #493 Posted: 2012.10.14 17:33
    I think if a militia is at Tier 1 and they choose to upgrade a system to 5 then CCP Guard should appear to provide moral support and troll the enemy.
    #494 Posted: 2012.10.15 09:32
    Heres a thought or two

    Get rid of LP for plexing, implement a capture point system so that as you plex it directly raises/lowers that systems tier.

    Bring FW missions in line with similar missions in highsec including removing the local beacon on mission spawn. Factor LP gain to high sec equivalent plus a bonus for being in low sec.

    Increase the proportion of LP gained for being on killmails, ie 1 person - 100% 2 - 75% 3 - 68% et al

    C C P Alliance
    #495 Posted: 2012.10.15 13:57  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
    :Edit January 8th 2013:
    As of January 10th Dust Mercenaries from our Closed Beta will be active on Tranqulity alongside all of you, and you will see the influence of temperate planets on each FW system start to move as mercenaries are hired by the four empires to capture districts on each planet.
    See CCP Nullarbor's dev blog for more details


    Hey everyone. I've got a few updates to our plan to share, including one change happening in Inferno 1.3 tomorrow and some tweaks to the earlier described plan taking into account all your excellent feedback and our conversations with the CSM. This stuff affects both this thread and the other one, but I'm just going to post it here because splitting it up doesn't make much sense to me. I'll just link to this post from there, and we can keep the combined feedback here.

    Firstly, we have the Inferno 1.3 patch releasing tomorrow which will represent the beginning of the Empires' preparation for the storm of new immortal infantry they see on the horizon. Most of the changes will be invisible to capsuleers, with the significant exception of Empire influence being increasingly exerted on the temperate planets of their contested zones. The four Empires have all begun to construct installations on the surface of temperate planets within factional warfare space that allow them to affect the system control to a limited but noticeable degree.

    At this point the installations are being set up by local militias allied with their ancestral nations, so the planet control is being exerted by the original owners of the system, from before any FW sovereignty changes. This means that until the new mercenaries of DUST 514 begin deployment, the planet control will belong to the historical owners based on region (or another way of putting it, the builders of the stargates in each system). For instance, all temperate planets in Black Rise will exert influence for the Caldari, and all temperate planets in The Bleak Lands will exert influence for the Amarrians.

    This influence will take the form of an increase or decrease in the number of Victory Points required to make a system vulnerable. If the same Empire controls both the planet and the Infrastructure Hub, the system will become harder to conquer through a higher VP threshold. If one Empire holds the Ihub and the other holds the planets, the system will become easier to conquer through a lower VP threshold. The influence exerted by each temperate planet is 12.5% of the standard VP threshold in either direction. Most FW systems have either one or zero temperate planets, and the maximum number in any FW system is four, giving a maximum possible VP threshold influence of 50% (12.5*4).

    This planet influence will be adjustable once the DUST 514 Mercs are unleashed, but in the meantime it will present a static adjustment of the landscape that may influence which systems each Militia chooses to reinforce and base from. This change will take effect with Inferno 1.3 tomorrow.

    :Edit January 8th 2013:
    As of January 10th Dust Mercenaries from our Closed Beta will be active on Tranqulity alongside all of you, and you will see the influence of temperate planets on each FW system start to move as mercenaries are hired by the four empires to capture districts on each planet.
    See CCP Nullarbor's dev blog for more details
    #496 Posted: 2012.10.15 14:46
    beside the patch. are the other things still on the roadmap? (e.g: no vulnerable system farming, npc block contesting, lp payout changes, partial lp for defensive plexing ...).

    Also: why is there no lp payout for pods anymore? It stopped for some reason. Bounty blog sais that there will be bounty payout for pods... so we should get the lp too IMO.
    eve style bounties (done)
    dust boarding parties
    imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW
    #497 Posted: 2012.10.15 15:00  |  Edited by: Jev North
    No longer relevant.
    Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
    #498 Posted: 2012.10.15 15:01
    CCP Fozzie wrote:
    Hey everyone. I've got a few updates to our plan to share....

    If FW is to be used as a rough template for null sov, then 12.5% may not be enough (assuming numbers used will cross over), or does null space have significantly more temperate planets than low-sec?

    All that update did for me was make me look forward to the impending sov revamp even more .. especially the tears and rage that it will probably invoke as XXXX will no longer be able to use tactic YYYY.

    PS: If you think about it Fozzie, most of the aspects of FW are interconnected. It is the price of needing to feed both epeen and wallet with the same underlying system .. don't fight it, embrace it! Big smile
    Exodus.
    #499 Posted: 2012.10.15 15:09
    I think this is a great move on CCP's part. It's a move to affect some sort of reset on the FW control before bringing DUST mercs on to TQ without actually just hitting the reset button. It will probably fuel some intense conflicts in the run up to the expansion with the dominant force being pushed out of the weaker force's space to an extent.
    #500 Posted: 2012.10.15 15:15
    Hoarr wrote:
    I think this is a great move on CCP's part. It's a move to affect some sort of reset on the FW control before bringing DUST mercs on to TQ without actually just hitting the reset button. It will probably fuel some intense conflicts in the run up to the expansion with the dominant force being pushed out of the weaker force's space to an extent.


    I doubt it'll have much effect until the new bleed numbers. There's too much LP right now for 12.5% to make a dent.

    With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
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