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Farms and Fields (0.0 Vision Discussion)

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#1 - 2012-10-10 23:06:28 UTC
Mittani.com link

So, after reading the above article, I felt like it was completely and 100% spot on, and that CSM should definitely be bringing up things like this to CCP. I know there was discussion about farms and fields a while back, but has it seen any progress recently?

What is CSM's current take on fixing 0.0 and keeping it fun and vibrant?
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2012-10-11 06:41:58 UTC
Saede Riordan wrote:
Mittani.com link

So, after reading the above article, I felt like it was completely and 100% spot on, and that CSM should definitely be bringing up things like this to CCP. I know there was discussion about farms and fields a while back, but has it seen any progress recently?

What is CSM's current take on fixing 0.0 and keeping it fun and vibrant?

The main 'farms and fields' candidate is absent this time around.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Executive Outcomes
#3 - 2012-10-11 09:15:33 UTC


I remember when this was all fields.....

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli

#4 - 2012-10-11 17:27:19 UTC
Destructible Stations...





...Insert fields.

Minister of High Society | Twitter: @autoritare

E-mail: diogenes.proc@gmail.com

My Blog: http://diogenes-club.blogspot.com/

The Diogenes Club | Join W-Space | Down The Pipe

#5 - 2012-10-11 17:43:32 UTC
the PoS revamp if it lives up to expectations will go a long way towards that end. But there's still not really enough valuable but soft targets. Things that alliances put up knowing they could easily be destroyed because of the ISK they can produce, necessitating the defense of their space in a more active manner, while at the same time giving roaming gangs of bandits things to attack.
Federation Uprising
#6 - 2012-10-16 20:02:59 UTC
the biggest problem that must first be addressed is in clearly defining highsec, lowsec, and nullsec. The problem is that lowsec is highsec lite (half the players, half the fun), and nullsec is a schitzophrenic rampage between highsec and Chicago gangland. right now the roles are pretty blurred, and there is no compelling reason for one to be your home over the other. And honestly, there isn't a change of feel when you transition from lawful space to lowsec, to 0.0.
New Eden Trading Company.
#7 - 2012-10-17 15:02:27 UTC
We've been chanting farms and fields to CCP at every oppotunity to discuss nullsec. Unfortunatly as you can see from the CSM Minutes, comprehensive revamp 0.0 is pretty low on the list of priorities right now. The CSM has been focused on two fronts on the 0.0 question:

1. Try to include stealth improvements to 0.0 as part of other features already in the works (small but recent examples are making sure alliance-level bounties got into the Winter release and ecouraging the direction of the T1 logi platforms which should see use in 0.0 roams [frigs] and fleets [cruisers])

2. Try to get CCP to commit to create a vision/roadmap document for null sec and the relationship between high/low/null.

It's our hope to have more movement on 1 during the POS revamp and more movement on 2 by the end of our second CSM summit compared to the first.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM

The Initiative.
#8 - 2012-10-17 15:12:58 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Saede Riordan wrote:
Mittani.com link

So, after reading the above article, I felt like it was completely and 100% spot on, and that CSM should definitely be bringing up things like this to CCP. I know there was discussion about farms and fields a while back, but has it seen any progress recently?

What is CSM's current take on fixing 0.0 and keeping it fun and vibrant?

The main 'farms and fields' candidate is absent this time around.


This is one of my big hobby horses. We're supposed to build space empires in 0.0, but we don't have the tools to be much more than space mongol hordes.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2012-10-17 21:27:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
2. Try to get CCP to commit to create a vision/roadmap document for null sec and the relationship between high/low/null.

Greyscale already did this about a year ago (ish) in a Dev blog with an accompanying mass of stickied megathreads discussing every aspect of 0.0. What happened to that, was it promptly thrown into Reykjavik harbour and never spoken of again?

If I was feeling cynical, I might interpret your comment as "get CCP to spend a massive amount of time re-inventing the wheel, but do it on CSM7's watch so we can look useful and important" but there's been so little discussion of anything bought up in that 0.0 brainstorming exercise since it was carried out that I'm prepared to consider that perhaps everyone genuinely forgot it even existed.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

New Eden Trading Company.
#10 - 2012-10-18 06:10:23 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
2. Try to get CCP to commit to create a vision/roadmap document for null sec and the relationship between high/low/null.

Greyscale already did this about a year ago (ish) in a Dev blog with an accompanying mass of stickied megathreads discussing every aspect of 0.0. What happened to that, was it promptly thrown into Reykjavik harbour and never spoken of again?

Pretty much this. I think most of CSM7 would say they were encouraged by the discussion a year ago but the problem is that conversaton ended and it's not showing any signs of being picked up. We'd like to change that and get the information collected from those threads to be fashioned into the visioning document they were originally supposed to be for.

Can't reinvent the wheel if no one's made the wheel yet.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM

Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2012-10-18 06:34:01 UTC
If anything, I'd like to see last year's 0.0 discussions done again for lowsec, highsec, and wormspace so we can get a unified vision of how all of Eve's space fits together.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Executive Outcomes
#12 - 2012-10-18 16:19:37 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
If anything, I'd like to see last year's 0.0 discussions done again for lowsec, highsec, and wormspace so we can get a unified vision of how all of Eve's space fits together.



Yeah I think a big unified vision document would be good with CCP basically saying how they see each area of space and how DUST fits into each area and how each area should effect the other. Including what type of activities they want to see in each area, what type of players they want and where the risk/reward should be.

It'll be a pain in the arse but totally worth it as it will provide a road map and instead of trying to design features and fit them into the game it will allow them to stop and think "Wait, does this fit in with our vision?"

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli

Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-10-18 18:22:28 UTC
no we need more discussion on 'what the csm is' and the true meaning of the word 'stakeholder'

since during the last csm meeting that took more real estate the DUST, nullsec, lowsec, industry and science combined.
#14 - 2012-10-18 18:25:43 UTC
That article is kind of wierd.

People in this thread wanted an unified vision. That article offered being a **** to everyone as an unified vision. Not really sure that is a decent unified vision. or at least one devs could support. I mean it is a vision, just one that most people can't get behind. Its actually makes me laugh reading it and thinking about how null hasn't seen much action from buffs lately.

Seems CCP wants a lot of drive in null sec. As goals or activites that really drive the game or alliances at least. Suppose being a **** is a drive and gets people motivated, just not sure how to buff that I suppose.

With everyone being a ****, that moon mining and stuff satisfies me pretty easily. Hopefully someone can write an article that has more ideas towards a drive force, that is different from being a ****, or hoping some people work, so you can easily rip them off and they will keep playing, so you can keep doing that.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne

#15 - 2012-10-18 18:26:00 UTC
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
If anything, I'd like to see last year's 0.0 discussions done again for lowsec, highsec, and wormspace so we can get a unified vision of how all of Eve's space fits together.



Yeah I think a big unified vision document would be good with CCP basically saying how they see each area of space and how DUST fits into each area and how each area should effect the other. Including what type of activities they want to see in each area, what type of players they want and where the risk/reward should be.

It'll be a pain in the arse but totally worth it as it will provide a road map and instead of trying to design features and fit them into the game it will allow them to stop and think "Wait, does this fit in with our vision?"



This definitely. CCP doesn't seem to currently have an overall vision for the game, and they seem to sort of be throwing out content without really looking at how it all fits together, and then when it starts to failure cascade, they bandaid it into worse shape then it was in the first place.

Want to stop people from farming FW and Incursions? Create some actual farms, designed for that gameplay purpose.
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2012-10-18 21:45:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
Saede Riordan wrote:
This definitely. CCP doesn't seem to currently have an overall vision for the game, and they seem to sort of be throwing out content without really looking at how it all fits together, and then when it starts to failure cascade, they bandaid it into worse shape then it was in the first place.

In terms of big-picture thinking and planning, CCP has been a mess for years. We see grandiose statement after grandiose statement on where they want certain aspects of the game to be, followed by disjointed collections of quick-fixes and unintended consequences which shunt that aspect in the complete opposite direction. We see Greyscale's 0.0 brainstorming megathreads, then the work from it gathers dust in a dark corner while 0.0 continues to stagnate. We see senior CCPers enthuse wildly in the gaming media about how events like Hulkageddon are awesome and how EVE is awesome because of them, then see mining ships granted hitpoint buffs which consign the idea to the ashes of history.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Brute Force Solutions
#17 - 2012-10-30 20:36:19 UTC
Proclus Diadochu wrote:
Destructible Stations...





...Insert barren wastelands.



Fixed that for you...

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2012-10-31 12:29:02 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Proclus Diadochu wrote:
Destructible Stations...



...Insert barren wastelands.


Fixed that for you...

Depends on what is meant by 'destructible' since there's a variety of options beyond 'Apply DPS = station is gone'. If CCP screw it up, then yes, you're looking at the depopulation of sov 0.0 since there's even less incentive for anyone to go out there. Do it right, and things get interesting.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

The Initiative.
#19 - 2012-10-31 13:06:44 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Proclus Diadochu wrote:
Destructible Stations...



...Insert barren wastelands.


Fixed that for you...

Depends on what is meant by 'destructible' since there's a variety of options beyond 'Apply DPS = station is gone'. If CCP screw it up, then yes, you're looking at the depopulation of sov 0.0 since there's even less incentive for anyone to go out there. Do it right, and things get interesting.


Agreed. I am a strong proponent of outpost destruction (specifically of the kind that leaves individual player assets as retrievable), but sov 0.0 needs a habitatability buff before it needs what would effectively be a nerf, even if a valuable, gameplay-enhancing nerf.

Whilst players should have the ability to revert space back to undeveloped wasteland, we really need to have the ability to properly develop space first.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

#20 - 2012-10-31 13:38:26 UTC
Agreed. What we need isn't more destruction, its more creation. We know from games like Minecraft that players love being given leeway to do whatever they want. The more freedom of operation you give someone, the more you give them to build, the more personal they can make something, the more fiercely they will defend it.
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