Test Server Feedback

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Fleet hangars and changes to various settings

First post First post
Author
The Possum Lodge
#281 - 2012-11-05 14:19:32 UTC
CCP Habakuk wrote:

I just tested this in our current development version and refitting directly from a container in your own fleet hangar works fine, including dragging and dropping multiple items onto the fitting screen. We were not doing any changes to Corporate Hangar Arrays (CHA) at a POS, so any problems there will still be around.
Please feel free to test containers in fleet hangars in detail on Duality or Buckingham as soon as one of them are updated with these changes - it is easily possible that I missed some cases (but I will also test more in the following days).

So, by your statements, is it safe to assume that you are pushing for us to fill our new 'simpler' fleet hanger with containers in order to maintain a semblance of organization that we had before you decided that hanger divisions were evil?

Why can we not have atleast a 'personal' hanger and a 'fleet' and 'corp' versions as well. What is wrong with us being allowed to have private hangers without the need to clutter the hold up with password'ed containers?

Why are you ignoring the player base on this?

http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...

#282 - 2012-11-05 14:37:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Rommiee
Panhead4411 wrote:
Why are you ignoring the player base on this?


It’s the way CCP do things these days. They will look at the comments, make a few cosmetic changes to give the impression that they listen/care. If player suggestions deviate too far from their master plan, they will steam ahead and bring in the changes anyway, promising “iterations” in the future to “address player concerns”.

They sometimes even promise “weekly improvements until you, the playerbase, are happy with the changes”. Remember the new UI shambles ? The weekly improvements lasted about a fortnight, then they stopped, and CCP ignored repeated requests to start them back again.

So, don’t hold your breath on CCP changing their way of working.
Virtus Crusade Protectorate
#283 - 2012-11-05 14:51:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Romero
CCP Habakuk wrote:
Team Gridlock has been working in the last months mostly on improving server-side parts of the inventory system (and related systems). Many of the changes won't be visible to the player (except that a few old bugs should be gone), but there are a few important changes, which are now on Duality for testing:

Fleet hangars:
Corporation hangars on capital ships and Orcas have been converted into fleet hangars. These fleet hangars have no divisions and corp roles are irrelevant. The size of the fleet hangar is the same as the old corp hangar and all items are moved from the corp hangar to the fleet hangar at deployment of the patch.
The access rules to the ship maintenance bay (SMB) and fleet hangar have also changed:
  • It is always possible to use the fitting service of the SMB of a corp member and a fleet member
  • Corp members can access both the SMB and the fleet hangar with the setting "Allow corp member usage"
  • Fleet members can access both the SMB and the fleet hangar with the setting "Allow fleet member usage"
We discussed these changes with the CSM and we hope that they improve the usability of the fleet hangar and the new access rules should make it much clearer on what is possible when.
Known issue in the build on Duality: The right-click option to open containers in fleet hangars is not doing anything.

Storing the settings for SMB and fleet hangars on the server:
The above mentioned settings for SMB and fleet hangars are now stored on the server and they stay always on the ship (as long as it is not repackaged). It is no longer necessary to re-configure the ship after a jump or after a relog. Be careful when boarding a ship from your corp mate or similar - it will be using the settings, which he set.

Storing the forcefield password of ships on the server
Forcefield passwords are now stored on the server. But: We are currently working on another iteration of this to improve the consistency. Please do not send bugreports about this yet. ;)

Storing the "lock items" setting for audit log containers on the server
The "lock items" setting on audit log containers is no longer a personal setting, but it is stored on the server and applying to all users. The new default setting is "unlocked". In corporation hangars the role "Config Equipment" is needed to change the setting (assuming no password is set).

Please reply here, if you find any bugs or other problems, which we might have missed. The changes should also be covered in a DevBlog later, but I have no idea yet on when it will be ready.

edit: Please check out this post from CCP Greyscale about further changes


I read through most of this thread - If I understand correctly - Fleet hangars are now SCANNABLE.

My thoughts on this - LAME. I really don't have nice words for you on this CCP.

My rationale so you all don't flame me:

1) First - Let me say that I like the idea that an ORCA could be popped and drop contents for gankers. That is fine if stuff drops as it should. To me it was always immersion breaking that the ORCA didn't drop corp hangar contents.

but

2) I think it is the WORST decision CCP devs have made in months to make it just scannable. It is immersion breaking. Why "fix" something that wasn't broke??! Why do it? SERIOUSLY - WHAT IS YOUR REASON? Lack of coding time? Don't know how to code it? Why CAN'T their be MORE OPTIONS in EVE instead of one size fits all? Why can't we have one bay on certain ships that ISN'T scannable? OR -

AND HERE IS A NOVEL IDEA... Make it to where you can scan it but you have to have a new module (one that requires HACKING and Survey skills trained to level 5) A module that allows you to scan audit containers or fleet hangars. Wouldn't that be more immersive? Wouldn't that be less of a change for the sake of NO CHANGE.

People LIKE THE BALANCE now that is Corp hangars not being scannable. Why are we buffing suicide ganks here. Since when is Hi-sec not hi-sec and empire?

I must be missing something herp-derp style that Concorde is growing some balls or crime watch will fix ganks more because as it stands now I am just not seeing how this change will HELP EVE and the the EVE Economy.

PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME.
#284 - 2012-11-05 15:04:03 UTC
Panhead4411 wrote:

So, by your statements, is it safe to assume that you are pushing for us to fill our new 'simpler' fleet hanger with containers in order to maintain a semblance of organization that we had before you decided that hanger divisions were evil?

It's not divisions that are evil, it's the fact that all the different hangars on ships *are* divisions in tech-terms. The absolute horror that was corp hangars on ships was evil and that had to go. The goal was not to remove divisions, but without some seriously major work, we can't create divisions within divisions which is why they're unlikely to come back. Sorry.

Panhead4411 wrote:

Why can we not have atleast a 'personal' hanger and a 'fleet' and 'corp' versions as well. What is wrong with us being allowed to have private hangers without the need to clutter the hold up with password'ed containers?

Aren't you basically asking for a larger cargo hold here? And you don't need any passwords on them containers. No one but the pilot will be able to open/take them/from them as long as they're in the FH.

Senior Server Programmer

Solar Assault Fleet
#285 - 2012-11-05 15:52:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Lors Dornick
Panhead4411 wrote:

So, by your statements, is it safe to assume that you are pushing for us to fill our new 'simpler' fleet hanger with containers in order to maintain a semblance of organization that we had before you decided that hanger divisions were evil?

Why can we not have atleast a 'personal' hanger and a 'fleet' and 'corp' versions as well. What is wrong with us being allowed to have private hangers without the need to clutter the hold up with password'ed containers?

Why are you ignoring the player base on this?


It's not that hard to understand nor is it down to ebil devs ignoring or deliberately messing with the player base.

Anyone who's had any experience of writing and maintaining code over several years will know that stuff you (or more likely someone else who worked on it) wrote several years ago will come back and bite you in uncomfortable places.

And it's quite obvious from the dev comments that parts like the varying size divisions (and other non-fixed containers) depends on code that aren't exactly optimal (I think phrases like "making baby Jesus cry" and "spawns of Cthulhu" are related indications of coder disgust).

Dealing with that kind of code only leaves you with 2 main options:
1: Restart all of it and this time do it right (at least right as you see it now).

2: Run around like a lemming on drugs trying to patch up the mess as you go.

Neither are really possible if the code is live and used by several persons on a daily basis.

So what our icelandic hampster trainers are doing is:
1: Rewriting stuff in the backend , making us players complain that they haven't done anything, and/or breaking stuff that has been there for ages.

2: Patching up stuff and doing minor patching up on the surface, making us players complain that they're cheating and not really giving us anything new.

I'm all for yelling, loudly, at the Devs for making (in my not very humble mind) stoopid decisions but no matter how hard I try, I fail to find them either outright ebil nor in some part of the player base's pocket.

tl:dr
I want my divisions back, but I sure as hell don't want to code it.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.

Caldari State
#286 - 2012-11-05 17:33:43 UTC
CCP GingerDude wrote:
Panhead4411 wrote:

So, by your statements, is it safe to assume that you are pushing for us to fill our new 'simpler' fleet hanger with containers in order to maintain a semblance of organization that we had before you decided that hanger divisions were evil?

It's not divisions that are evil, it's the fact that all the different hangars on ships *are* divisions in tech-terms. The absolute horror that was corp hangars on ships was evil and that had to go. The goal was not to remove divisions, but without some seriously major work, we can't create divisions within divisions which is why they're unlikely to come back. Sorry.

Panhead4411 wrote:

Why can we not have atleast a 'personal' hanger and a 'fleet' and 'corp' versions as well. What is wrong with us being allowed to have private hangers without the need to clutter the hold up with password'ed containers?

Aren't you basically asking for a larger cargo hold here? And you don't need any passwords on them containers. No one but the pilot will be able to open/take them/from them as long as they're in the FH.



He is not asking for bigger cargo - if you actually read what people are proposing You would know, that what we ask is two separate hangars that would share cargo space
Pandemic Legion
#287 - 2012-11-05 17:45:31 UTC
CCP GingerDude wrote:
Panhead4411 wrote:

So, by your statements, is it safe to assume that you are pushing for us to fill our new 'simpler' fleet hanger with containers in order to maintain a semblance of organization that we had before you decided that hanger divisions were evil?

It's not divisions that are evil, it's the fact that all the different hangars on ships *are* divisions in tech-terms. The absolute horror that was corp hangars on ships was evil and that had to go. The goal was not to remove divisions, but without some seriously major work, we can't create divisions within divisions which is why they're unlikely to come back. Sorry.

Panhead4411 wrote:

Why can we not have atleast a 'personal' hanger and a 'fleet' and 'corp' versions as well. What is wrong with us being allowed to have private hangers without the need to clutter the hold up with password'ed containers?

Aren't you basically asking for a larger cargo hold here? And you don't need any passwords on them containers. No one but the pilot will be able to open/take them/from them as long as they're in the FH.


OK, take a Carrier as an example. It has a 10,000 m3 Corp Hangar Array and a 1,000,000 Ship Maintenance Array.

The 10,000 m3 Corp Hangar currently has 7 divisions which expand/contract depending on what is in them. The total size of them all can't be bigger than 10,000 m3 but you don't need any containers to achieve whatever level of organization you want. You can't grant access to these corp hangar segments to non-corp members, but the corp roles DO apply to corp members so you can effectively filter who can get to the goodies in your ship by putting more expensive ones in (for example) the 'Director Only' hangar.

What you propose to replace this great, fully functional system with is one hangar with no divisions. You are going to give me cans to put in there so I can organize my stuff and don't understand why I'm upset with this change. The issue we, the players, have is 3-fold. First of all, you're giving me a new item I don't want to have to carry around. It'll never be full and always takes up more space than I want it to, I also have to get them out to 0.0 space where I live, or someone has to make them there, both of which are seriously inconvenient. Second, I can't allow access by anyone else to the cans in my hangar, the entire thing is either ON / OFF to my entire fleet, providing zero security. Third, how am I supposed to carry these cans around with me when deploying? I can refit my carrier for multiple roles in minutes, but if half my inventory is full of cans used to duplicate the functionality I already had, how do I fit my 2 extra Capital sized modules in there at 4k m3 each?

You're essentially taking the Corp Hangar I have now, which I like, and replacing it with the ON / OFF functionality of the current Ship Maintenance Array, which NO ONE ANYWHERE is happy with. IE: it's either ON or OFF any anyone in the fleet can steal all your stuff.

I realize it's more WORK for you to keep the current functionality that we have now, but if you don't want to put in that work (which, not to be a **** about it, is kind of your entire job), why mess with it at all? Why change something that isn't broken and players are not complaining about?
Minmatar Republic
#288 - 2012-11-05 17:58:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Cid Tazer
BlitZ Kotare wrote:

OK, take a Carrier as an example. It has a 10,000 m3 Corp Hangar Array and a 1,000,000 Ship Maintenance Array.

The 10,000 m3 Corp Hangar currently has 7 divisions which expand/contract depending on what is in them. The total size of them all can't be bigger than 10,000 m3 but you don't need any containers to achieve whatever level of organization you want. You can't grant access to these corp hangar segments to non-corp members, but the corp roles DO apply to corp members so you can effectively filter who can get to the goodies in your ship by putting more expensive ones in (for example) the 'Director Only' hangar.

What you propose to replace this great, fully functional system with is one hangar with no divisions. You are going to give me cans to put in there so I can organize my stuff and don't understand why I'm upset with this change. The issue we, the players, have is 3-fold. First of all, you're giving me a new item I don't want to have to carry around. It'll never be full and always takes up more space than I want it to, I also have to get them out to 0.0 space where I live, or someone has to make them there, both of which are seriously inconvenient. Second, I can't allow access by anyone else to the cans in my hangar, the entire thing is either ON / OFF to my entire fleet, providing zero security. Third, how am I supposed to carry these cans around with me when deploying? I can refit my carrier for multiple roles in minutes, but if half my inventory is full of cans used to duplicate the functionality I already had, how do I fit my 2 extra Capital sized modules in there at 4k m3 each?

You're essentially taking the Corp Hangar I have now, which I like, and replacing it with the ON / OFF functionality of the current Ship Maintenance Array, which NO ONE ANYWHERE is happy with. IE: it's either ON or OFF any anyone in the fleet can steal all your stuff.

I realize it's more WORK for you to keep the current functionality that we have now, but if you don't want to put in that work (which, not to be a **** about it, is kind of your entire job), why mess with it at all? Why change something that isn't broken and players are not complaining about?


I think you're missing something from Greyscale's inital comments (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2123982#post2123982):
CCP Greyscale wrote:
•For containers in a fleet hangar, only the pilot will ever be allowed to open or remove the container; other characters will only be able to drop into the container (with a warning)


From my impression of that, your first two points are taken care of because people can only put stuff into your hanger. They cannot remove it. Your third point may be just just adapting.
Pandemic Legion
#289 - 2012-11-05 18:07:37 UTC
Cid Tazer wrote:

From my impression of that, your first two points are taken care of because people can only put stuff into your hanger. They cannot remove it. Your third point may be just just adapting.


No, you just didn't understand my post.

The cans are 'secure' in that no one but me (the pilot) can get into them. But if I put anything out in the Fleet Hangar (not in a can) anyone in the fleet can have it. The hangar itself is either ON or OFF with no granularity, so all of my stuff is either safe in a can, safe when the Fleet Hangar is turned OFF or free for everyone to grab.

You're also completely ignoring the annoyance the containers themselves, which are miserable excuses for hangar divisions. The auto-adjusting size of hangar divisions is amazing and is one of the best points of owning a carrier/orca/rorqual/SC/Titan. Hell half the reason I still want a Titan, even though they've been nerfed into the ground, is the giant corp hangar to store all my goodies in.
Minmatar Republic
#290 - 2012-11-05 18:16:47 UTC
BlitZ Kotare wrote:
Cid Tazer wrote:

From my impression of that, your first two points are taken care of because people can only put stuff into your hanger. They cannot remove it. Your third point may be just just adapting.


No, you just didn't understand my post.

The cans are 'secure' in that no one but me (the pilot) can get into them. But if I put anything out in the Fleet Hangar (not in a can) anyone in the fleet can have it. The hangar itself is either ON or OFF with no granularity, so all of my stuff is either safe in a can, safe when the Fleet Hangar is turned OFF or free for everyone to grab.

You're also completely ignoring the annoyance the containers themselves, which are miserable excuses for hangar divisions. The auto-adjusting size of hangar divisions is amazing and is one of the best points of owning a carrier/orca/rorqual/SC/Titan. Hell half the reason I still want a Titan, even though they've been nerfed into the ground, is the giant corp hangar to store all my goodies in.


So you're mad that you're losing your partitioned magic bag of holding that required someone to navigate the nearly universally despised corp role system and was quite buggy on top of it instead of using fairly easy to understand containers?

Are containers that may have a little bit of spare space less painful than having to navigate the corp role system to get all cap ship pilots able to use some divisions but not others?

(slight bit of ignorance but if you have a carrier now, but do not have permissions to the director's division, can stuff be put into your carrier that you cannot access?)
Caldari State
#291 - 2012-11-05 18:33:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Kari Juptris
Cid Tazer wrote:
(slight bit of ignorance but if you have a carrier now, but do not have permissions to the director's division, can stuff be put into your carrier that you cannot access?)


What a surprise! Someone who doesn't have a capital is perfectly fine with this change and is telling us it's fine. Roll

As for your question, no. Corp hangars in ships allow the pilot of the vessel full access to each hangar, and allow people with appropriate roles access to whatever hangar they would normally be able to access in a station when the ship is in reconfig mode. Pilots have a "master key" to all hangars in their own ships.
Minmatar Republic
#292 - 2012-11-05 18:40:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Cid Tazer
Kari Juptris wrote:
Cid Tazer wrote:
(slight bit of ignorance but if you have a carrier now, but do not have permissions to the director's division, can stuff be put into your carrier that you cannot access?)


What a surprise! Someone who doesn't have a capital is perfectly fine with this change and is telling us it's fine. Roll

As for your question, no. Corp hangars in ships allow the pilot of the vessel full access to each hangar, and allow people with appropriate roles access to whatever hangar they would normally be able to access in a station when the ship is in reconfig mode. Pilots have a "master key" to all hangars in their own ships.


I've worked with them and been on the corp management side trying to get people assigned roles so that they could interact with a capital ship.

The corp management role side is such a pain, that I would think that containers and much simplified access rules would be welcomed.

That being said, combined with the Unified Inventory tree, I don't see much difference in practical use since containers within a hanger and divisions will look very similar. There will be differences with size management which I agree are less than optimal, but getting away from basing ship access on corp roles is a good trade in my opinion.
#293 - 2012-11-05 18:55:53 UTC
Cid Tazer wrote:
BlitZ Kotare wrote:
Cid Tazer wrote:

From my impression of that, your first two points are taken care of because people can only put stuff into your hanger. They cannot remove it. Your third point may be just just adapting.


No, you just didn't understand my post.

The cans are 'secure' in that no one but me (the pilot) can get into them. But if I put anything out in the Fleet Hangar (not in a can) anyone in the fleet can have it. The hangar itself is either ON or OFF with no granularity, so all of my stuff is either safe in a can, safe when the Fleet Hangar is turned OFF or free for everyone to grab.

You're also completely ignoring the annoyance the containers themselves, which are miserable excuses for hangar divisions. The auto-adjusting size of hangar divisions is amazing and is one of the best points of owning a carrier/orca/rorqual/SC/Titan. Hell half the reason I still want a Titan, even though they've been nerfed into the ground, is the giant corp hangar to store all my goodies in.


So you're mad that you're losing your partitioned magic bag of holding that required someone to navigate the nearly universally despised corp role system and was quite buggy on top of it instead of using fairly easy to understand containers?

Are containers that may have a little bit of spare space less painful than having to navigate the corp role system to get all cap ship pilots able to use some divisions but not others?

(slight bit of ignorance but if you have a carrier now, but do not have permissions to the director's division, can stuff be put into your carrier that you cannot access?)


I completely agree with BlitZ Kotare - he has it spot on.

@ Cid -- you blatantly say you don't understand the permissions on Capital Cargoholds, yet you pretend to understand how it's "good" to remove the divisions. Go crawl back into your hole until you know what you're talking about because it's obvious you do not.

To answer your question though, yes, a pilot can access any division within their own ship - regardless of Corp roles.


In regards to the space issue (you call it "partitioned magic bag of holding"). Under the current system, I do not have enough space in my carrier's cargohold for any spare capital mods @ 4k each for refits. Instead, I can put them in the Corp Hangars - and what's left over for space goes to everyone else that is allowed access to the Corp Hangar.

Under the new system, I will need to partition my "fleet hangar" with fixed sized containers - effectively eliminating one of two things:
a) I no longer have enough space to carry extra cap mods for refits
b) I no longer have secured (container) space to carry general Fleet equipment because my container for my capital refitting mods is 10k in size.

The current system might be 'broken' due to bad programming, but it works -- and doesn't require the paying player base to go though additional suffering just to do simple things.

A better solution would be to increase and swap the sizes of both the Cargohold with the Corporate Hangars. Secured space for the pilot with a nominal amount of Fleet space.

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!

Minmatar Republic
#294 - 2012-11-05 19:06:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Cid Tazer
So because I don't remember about the master key completely invalidates my opinion?

The current system "working" is a matter of opinion. The devs obviously don't think it does. Hangers that are unscannable and will never drop are pretty broken in my opinion.

Why not ask CCP if dynamically sized containers that have no compression are possible? A do it yourself division so to speak. I have no idea if it is technically possible, but it's at least accepting the statements that divisions are not coming back.
Mercenary Coalition
#295 - 2012-11-05 19:16:51 UTC
Ever heard the term if its not broken dont fix it have you seen how much crap a carrier carts around do you even use a carrier, or is it another one of these unified inventory fixes where the old one worked fine but we just had to have a change.
#296 - 2012-11-05 19:20:10 UTC
virtualgenius wrote:
Ever heard the term "if it's not broken don't fix it"?
Have you seen how much crap a carrier carts around?
Do you even use a carrier, or is it another one of these unified inventory fixes where the old one worked fine but we just had to have a change?

/grammer police=on
I fixed that for you. You'll notice you get more attention when you actually use punctuation!
/grammer police=off

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!

Amarr Empire
#297 - 2012-11-06 00:58:10 UTC
Ok CCP you want my feedback on modules/ideas/"features"?
Firstly tell me why this was such a pressing issue and far eclipsed the resources which can be used to help other balancing (which you're rushing btw)

Second tell me how to tell you more directly that I DO NOT support the changes to Divisions.
Im sorry but this seems like a mess. Either dedicate the resources or leave it as is. Period. And listen to the player base so you stop ending up with crap like the adaptive armor abomination, or the ASB which players tried to warn you about.

Scans I dont care (though id like to have no scans but drops like normal, a lottery of sorts)
#298 - 2012-11-06 10:14:33 UTC
Infinite Force wrote:
In regards to the space issue (you call it "partitioned magic bag of holding"). Under the current system, I do not have enough space in my carrier's cargohold for any spare capital mods @ 4k each for refits. Instead, I can put them in the Corp Hangars - and what's left over for space goes to everyone else that is allowed access to the Corp Hangar.

Under the new system, I will need to partition my "fleet hangar" with fixed sized containers - effectively eliminating one of two things:
a) I no longer have enough space to carry extra cap mods for refits
b) I no longer have secured (container) space to carry general Fleet equipment because my container for my capital refitting mods is 10k in size.

The current system might be 'broken' due to bad programming, but it works -- and doesn't require the paying player base to go though additional suffering just to do simple things.



This is EXACTLY the issue here.

Anyone who has flown a Capital ship in combat would know this. It really is no-brainer. It is pretty clear that the Devs that are pushing this fiasco have never done that. If they had, they would not have entertained this idea, even for a second. Poncing around in a Super on SISI, really isn’t the same. Seriously.

It’s another example of CCP “fixing” something, where the result is far more cumbersome, time consuming and annoying than before the said “fix”.

Okay, so the code was messed up, if you are not prepared to put in the work to sort out new code without losing functionality then leave it alone. I know full well the complexities of Corp Management, and it does need looking at, but not at the expense of losing a function that is fundamental in Cap warfare.


I don’t care about the hanger being scannable. Anyone with some sense can get around that in hisec. In low/null it doesn’t matter.
#299 - 2012-11-06 10:24:32 UTC
I do not like the change to the unscannable parts of the orca at all. This was all I used it for.

I dont carry an awful lot in my orca, around two billion in a few logistics ship, and ammo, drones and spare mods and all this change will do is make me waste more time by forcing me to make double trips to the next incursion site to avoid making myself a target.

It will not give gankers better targets as I will still not carry above any magic number in ehp to isk ratio.
#300 - 2012-11-06 12:26:47 UTC
Cursan Voran wrote:
I do not like the change to the unscannable parts of the orca at all. This was all I used it for.

I dont carry an awful lot in my orca, around two billion in a few logistics ship, and ammo, drones and spare mods and all this change will do is make me waste more time by forcing me to make double trips to the next incursion site to avoid making myself a target.

It will not give gankers better targets as I will still not carry above any magic number in ehp to isk ratio.


Give it to Red Frog, they will move it for a few mil.
Forum Jump