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[Proposal] Fix Wardec Exploits

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C C P Alliance
#121 Posted: 2012.11.09 16:17
Permanent war decs will be fixed in Retribution.
We have made it so that in a mutual war, the original aggressor has the option of retracting the war.
And by "we have made it so", I mean Punkturis has made it so.
★ EVE Game Designer ★
♥ Team Super Friends ♥
Destiny's Call
#122 Posted: 2012.11.09 16:23  |  Edited by: Brib Vogt
CCP Tallest wrote:
Permanent war decs will be fixed in Retribution.
We have made it so that in a mutual war, the original aggressor has the option of retracting the war.
And by "we have made it so", I mean Punkturis has made it so.


Thank you so much. And I mean for your post not for the message. Even if you said that you can't fix it until 4th of december i would be happy.

You both, Punkturis and you, are my personal heroes of the day. I still do not like Punkturis way of acting and the arrogance of the CSM member, but now i have something i can tell the angry mob, which is called my alliance members.
Noir. Mercenary Group
#123 Posted: 2012.11.09 16:32
Brib Vogt wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde everything you write is very offensive. I tried to state the actual conditions.

1.) I do not care about a gender. If she is a woman she still writes poor comments on the wrong place.

2.) All posts here have their respective necessity. And all are welcome by any GM i contacted. And what do you mean by posters like me? From one EVE player and Alliance leader to maybe another: Do you think you are worth more then any other "grunt"? You, as CSM, should fight for us instead of being the defender of the poor CCP.

3.) Again you trollin and you are very offensive. He stated his opinion and you are going to make a fool of yourself by criticizing him in such a rude way. And i am not thankful for the laughs. CCP members are payed by his money too.

4.) Do you know what examples are made for? And about which compromise are you talking? CCP never gave me anything to choose from?

I talk for at least 160 Accounts alone in my alliance and i know some of the alliance leaders stuck in dec shield too.


I feel very offended and i hope you apologize for your arrogant behavior.

1. Kinda sounded like you felt you could talk down to CCP Punkturis if she was a woman from your patriarchal comment. I'm ready to say I read it wrong, but that was my initial impression.

2. From one player to another, yes I think some contributions to the community and the forums are worth more than others. I feel every person is entitled to contribute and can do so in many ways. There's the thoughtful proposals, the interesting story, the insightful or just plain "Hi, I'm new what is this warp scrambler message" new guy questions, and there's funny trolls which keep things lively.

Aaaand then there's people choosing to communicate in ways both obnoxious AND uninteresting. I think the contributions of players in the former category are to be championed, and I have fought tirelessly for them. I think players choosing to do the latter should be pointed out and given some merciless honesty till they decide to make different choices, become laughably discredited through their own words, or simply get out. I've been this way for years; my voters appreciate someone willing to fight for them and not give their sincere concerns the same weight of someone shouting for attention. There's a difference, that difference is important, and filtering out the noise is one of a CSM's most useful roles as a player advocate to CCP.

3. Life must be very hard for someone with your sensitivities. "Unrealistic," "fool," and "dumb" were polite understatements. I thought my point got across without having to get really nasty and unreasonable, and it seems like it has.

4. Not sure what your question is here but I'm having fun so if you can rephrase it I'd be happy to try to answer.
"Alekseyev Karrde: mercenary of my heart."
-Arydanika, Voices from the Void

Hero of the CSM
Noir./Noir. Academy Recruiting: www.noirmercs.com
Noir. Mercenary Group
#124 Posted: 2012.11.09 16:33
Brib Vogt wrote:
CCP Tallest wrote:
Permanent war decs will be fixed in Retribution.
We have made it so that in a mutual war, the original aggressor has the option of retracting the war.
And by "we have made it so", I mean Punkturis has made it so.


Thank you so much. And I mean for your post not for the message. Even if you said that you can't fix it until 4th of december i would be happy.

You both, Punkturis and you, are my personal heroes of the day. I still do not like Punkturis way of acting and the arrogance of the CSM member, but now i have something i can tell the angry mob, which is called my alliance members.

Learn to swallow your pride man, jeez.
"Alekseyev Karrde: mercenary of my heart."
-Arydanika, Voices from the Void

Hero of the CSM
Noir./Noir. Academy Recruiting: www.noirmercs.com
Destiny's Call
#125 Posted: 2012.11.09 16:40
Alekseyev Karrde, i think we both should end it here. Maybe we do not understand each other, or we don't want to. Don't feed the troll. Could be me could be you.
Caldari State
#126 Posted: 2012.11.09 16:43
They are NOW getting fixed because goons are in a permanent war. Seems ccp responds everytime the goons have a problem -.-it takes them now to actually do say something
Destiny's Call
#127 Posted: 2012.11.09 16:45
Travis117 wrote:
They are NOW getting fixed because goons are in a permanent war. Seems ccp responds everytime the goons have a problem -.-it takes them now to actually do say something


Don't believe that and do not want to!
Codex Aevum
#128 Posted: 2012.11.09 16:55  |  Edited by: Destriouth Hollow
CCP Tallest wrote:
Permanent war decs will be fixed in Retribution.
We have made it so that in a mutual war, the original aggressor has the option of retracting the war.
And by "we have made it so", I mean Punkturis has made it so.


Thanks a lot for this. It happens to be the same way of fixing it as I suggested, which I think is a good thing.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=170237&find=unread
Now I at least know how long I have to live with it and when i can start recruiting again.


Quote:
Alekseyev Karrde:
3. His opinion is objectively unrealistic and subjectively dumb. I already explained the actual situation, he just continued to make a fool of himself. Be thankful someone in CCP got some laughs out of it.

Not agreeing with me might be unrealistic itself but is understandable. But becoming personal and calling me dumb and a fool on the other hand is not how an official CSM-Member should behave.

Quote:
Alekseyev Karrde:
Learn to swallow your pride man, jeez.

Is also not very polite.

Quote:
2. No, the last 2 pages of this thread are trolling on a high level. Punkturis made a little joke, and if you can't see why it's funny it's probably because the joke is on posters like you. Take your own advice and wait for a fix.

And I think you yourself have lost all right to call anyone else a troll by now.
I know that in a partly official position I would not start to call people names.
RvB - RED Federation
#129 Posted: 2012.11.09 16:56
So we're back to War Dec's without consequences and the system itself is still inherently worthless... Ok. Preventing everyone who got into bed with an alliance from inheriting all of their targets and the other way around would have been step in the right direction but I guess this is way better than the current hell storm.
Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
#130 Posted: 2012.11.09 17:03
Travis117 wrote:
They are NOW getting fixed because goons are in a permanent war. Seems ccp responds everytime the goons have a problem -.-it takes them now to actually do say something


10058.
<< THE RABBLE BRIGADE >>
Codex Aevum
#131 Posted: 2012.11.09 17:03  |  Edited by: Destriouth Hollow
ShenanigansBus wrote:
So we're back to War Dec's without consequences and the system itself is still inherently worthless... Ok. Preventing everyone who got into bed with an alliance from inheriting all of their targets and the other way around would have been step in the right direction but I guess this is way better than the current hell storm.


This only fixes half of the problem. If you declare a war on anybody they could still mutual it and leave only one unneeded char in that corp. You would still forever have an ongoing war where u are the agressor and all you can do is petition. The inactive corp would never have to pay even a single ISK. This possibility is flawed by design.
A good system is one that is well thought out and doesn't need constant "special cases" to keep working. Especially in a sandbox where everything possible is wanted to be allowed.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=170237&find=unread (need to put this to my signature ^^)
RvB - RED Federation
#132 Posted: 2012.11.09 17:11
Destriouth Hollow wrote:
ShenanigansBus wrote:
So we're back to War Dec's without consequences and the system itself is still inherently worthless... Ok. Preventing everyone who got into bed with an alliance from inheriting all of their targets and the other way around would have been step in the right direction but I guess this is way better than the current hell storm.


This only fixes half of the problem. If you declare a war on anybody they could still mutual it and leave only one unneeded char in that corp. You would still forever have an ongoing war where u are the agressor and all you can do is petition. The inactive corp would never have to pay even a single ISK. This possibility is flawed by design.
A good system is one that is well thought out and doesn't need constant "special cases" to keep working. Especially in a sandbox where everything possible is wanted to be allowed.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=170237&find=unread (need to put this to my signature ^^)


Didn't read that link yet but I agree completely with the final sentence before it... one draw back is that EvE players are notorious for figuring out how to make a special case .
Ushra'Khan
#133 Posted: 2012.11.09 17:18
Travis117 wrote:
They are NOW getting fixed because goons are in a permanent war. Seems ccp responds everytime the goons have a problem -.-it takes them now to actually do say something


/me puts on tinfoil hat... Roll
Destiny's Call
#134 Posted: 2012.11.09 17:19  |  Edited by: Musiaba Schenoly
CCP Tallest wrote:
Permanent war decs will be fixed in Retribution.
We have made it so that in a mutual war, the original aggressor has the option of retracting the war.
And by "we have made it so", I mean Punkturis has made it so.


Thank you for the first clear state of ccp after 7 weeks, seriously.

I liked the new wardec / mutual mechanic and would really appreciate an further development in that direction (ofc without the exploit) in the future.

But as I wrote before: I guess its better to have an older but well working gamemechanic than a new and more attractive but broken one.

So I m thankful for your decision finally and thx for telling us here.
Noir. Mercenary Group
#135 Posted: 2012.11.09 17:34
Destriouth Hollow wrote:
CCP Tallest wrote:
Permanent war decs will be fixed in Retribution.
We have made it so that in a mutual war, the original aggressor has the option of retracting the war.
And by "we have made it so", I mean Punkturis has made it so.


Thanks a lot for this. It happens to be the same way of fixing it as I suggested, which I think is a good thing.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=170237&find=unread
Now I at least know how long I have to live with it and when i can start recruiting again.


Quote:
Alekseyev Karrde:
3. His opinion is objectively unrealistic and subjectively dumb. I already explained the actual situation, he just continued to make a fool of himself. Be thankful someone in CCP got some laughs out of it.

Not agreeing with me might be unrealistic itself but is understandable. But becoming personal and calling me dumb and a fool on the other hand is not how an official CSM-Member should behave.

Quote:
Alekseyev Karrde:
Learn to swallow your pride man, jeez.

Is also not very polite.

Quote:
2. No, the last 2 pages of this thread are trolling on a high level. Punkturis made a little joke, and if you can't see why it's funny it's probably because the joke is on posters like you. Take your own advice and wait for a fix.

And I think you yourself have lost all right to call anyone else a troll by now.
I know that in a partly official position I would not start to call people names.

:s and Brib ended things so well, here you go make things fun again.

Perhaps dumb *was* a poor choice of words. Willfully ignorant would have been more nuanced. As far as you appearing foolish, well it's certainly just my opinion but i think it stands quite nicely given this post.

Man I was sooo happy to just let it end with Brib's rather tactful post. You two should really coordinate better.

And you should never ever say this: "Now I at least know how long I have to live with it and when i can start recruiting again." when slinging mud at someone who does war decs for a living.
"Alekseyev Karrde: mercenary of my heart."
-Arydanika, Voices from the Void

Hero of the CSM
Noir./Noir. Academy Recruiting: www.noirmercs.com
Ushra'Khan
#136 Posted: 2012.11.09 17:41
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
[quote=Destriouth Hollow]

-snip -

And you should never ever say this: "Now I at least know how long I have to live with it and when i can start recruiting again." when slinging mud at someone who does war decs for a living.



Lol
Black Legion.
#137 Posted: 2012.11.09 17:44
Travis117 wrote:
They are NOW getting fixed because goons are in a permanent war. Seems ccp responds everytime the goons have a problem -.-it takes them now to actually do say something



http://barbaricthoughts.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/tin-foil-hat-e1303319730252.jpg
#138 Posted: 2012.11.09 17:50
CCP Tallest wrote:

And by "we have made it so", I mean Punkturis has made it so.

cpt. picard approves
eve style bounties (done)
dust boarding parties
imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW
#139 Posted: 2012.11.09 17:56
What is wrong is not how the current wardec mechanics work but the wording of it.

"Mutual" should be changed to "All or Nothing mode".

And it goes like this.

"Aggressor Corp/Alliance" wardecs "Nasty Corp". Now "Nasty Corp" ticks box "All or Nothing mode". "Aggressor Corp/Alliance" now has the option to drop the wardec (24h cool down) or tick the box "All or Nothing mode".

"Aggressor Corp/Alliance" ticks the box also and now both corps/alliance are in "All or Nothing mode".

At this point the only way to get out of the war is for "Surrender terms" (in game mechanics) to be agreed or one of the crops/Alliance disbands


Now "Nasty Corp" feels he needs some friends. So he goes of to "Silly Bear Alliance" and joins them. Now the wardec is on for "Aggressor Corp/Alliance" and "Silly Bear Alliance". At this point, Same thing/option can happens. "Silly Alliance" ticks the box "All or Nothing mode". "Aggressor Corp/Alliance" can again drop the wardec (24h cool down) or tick the box "All or Nothing mode". Same rules as before to end the war remain. But with one exception. If "Nasty Corp" or it's CEO resigns and leaves the "Nasty Corp" and or "Silly Bear Alliance", The wardecs goes with them.

End result is the same. Somebody has to Disband or agree to "Surrender terms" (in game mechanics).

The fact that Corp/Alliances can Wardec with out consequentness is a bitter pill to swallow for most folk. And with this up coming change. They get that back again.

I Must say that I do feel like some of the rest posting here.

Seems that if Goons say jump. CCP do say how high please Mr. Goon CEO


If the goons don't like the wardecs, Then they should not make them on folks. And if they don't want to fight the wardecs, Stay out of high sec. They have all that nice SOV. They can make their own trade hubs in null. They can make everything they need in Null sec. They don't need Jita. and if they feel like they do need Jita. Then maybe they should do more escort run when they go there.
Codex Aevum
#140 Posted: 2012.11.09 18:07
@Slutty Underwear
Just my point (:

But you gave me an idea (:
The Faction that sends out the "All or Nothing mode" they could name an amount of ISK. The war can now only end if both parties agree to it or the looser pays the winner that amount of isk. The agressor would have to agree to this or drop the war.
It's like betting an amount of ISK onto your victory (:

Still wouldn't solve the "1-man-corp screws u over forever"-issue (:
At least now you could pay to remove it though.
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