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What ever happened to Tesselation?

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Cosmic Consortium
#21 Posted: 2012.12.20 00:42
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Considering first DX11 games started to come out in early 2010, I guess it's not too bad, only 3 years behind the times. Big smile


Considering the first DX11 chipsets came out in 2010, and considering that the usual refresh cycle for PCs is 3 years, while the usual refresh cycle is 5 years, and EVE players are notorious for using ancient boxes (remember the furore about Shader 3.0 meaning people couldn't run EVE on their ASUS EEPC?), expecting to migrate the entire population of EVE Online to DX11 before 2015 is rather optimistic.

Of course, if you want to give me $2000 to upgrade my home office to DX11-capable hardware before then, I won't reject your money :)
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players
#22 Posted: 2012.12.20 00:42
CCP Mankiller wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I am a graphics programmer, I love everything new. But statistics show that only ~50% of the players run dx11-ready systems. So we don't want to shut them out for this


So what youre trying to say is that CCP is developing Crysis 2....
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Caldari State
#23 Posted: 2012.12.20 00:44  |  Edited by: Jame Jarl Retief
CCP Mankiller wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I am a graphics programmer, I love everything new. But statistics show that only ~50% of the players run dx11-ready systems. So we don't want to shut them out for this


Oh, I absolutely agree. But 50% is a pretty high number (I honestly expected a lot less). And wouldn't the new DX11 client be DX10 compatible anyway (for the remaining 40% or so). I don't imagine there's a lot of folks out there still running DX9 and WinXP. And if they do...well...maybe they should get with the times.

Though I honestly feel EVE's graphics are more than enough, and definitely competitive. Though I'd like to see some more detail (visible damage, explosions that don't look like a bag of flour taking a .50 round through the middle, perhaps ship breaking down gradually instead of disappearing, leaving behind recognizable pieces as a wreck). That kind of stuff really would garner more attention than tasselation anyhow, considering that most folks fight significantly zoomed out anyway.

Mara Rinn wrote:
Of course, if you want to give me $2000 to upgrade my home office to DX11-capable hardware before then, I won't reject your money :)


Word of advice - assemble your own PC and don't **** away your money for nothing. If you play your cards right, catch some good sales and don't do anything stupid, you can have a fantastic PC for a whole lot less. Basic DX11 capable video card (such as HD 5770) is under $100 for crying out loud, and that's "full price". Catch an X-Mas sale, and you can get it for under $70. Bam, install Win7 and you're DX11 compatible!
C C P Alliance
#24 Posted: 2012.12.20 00:49
WinXP is the problem... It just won't die!
Caldari State
#25 Posted: 2012.12.20 00:51
CCP Mankiller wrote:
WinXP is the problem... It just won't die!


Yeah, to be totally honest I was one of those folks who hung on to Win2K until just about everyone dropped support for it. Only switched to XP in late 2006 for Company of Heroes.
Cerberus Unleashed
#26 Posted: 2012.12.20 00:55
make it optional then.
[X] < Nail here for new monitor
C C P Alliance
#27 Posted: 2012.12.20 00:56
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
CCP Mankiller wrote:
WinXP is the problem... It just won't die!


Yeah, to be totally honest I was one of those folks who hung on to Win2K until just about everyone dropped support for it. Only switched to XP in late 2006 for Company of Heroes.


Aha! So everyone who wants tessellation: put a bounty on this guy! TwistedEvil
#28 Posted: 2012.12.20 00:58  |  Edited by: Jerick Ludhowe
Mara Rinn wrote:


Considering the first DX11 chipsets came out in 2010, and considering that the usual refresh cycle for PCs is 3 years, while the usual refresh cycle is 5 years, and EVE players are notorious for using ancient boxes (remember the furore about Shader 3.0 meaning people couldn't run EVE on their ASUS EEPC?), expecting to migrate the entire population of EVE Online to DX11 before 2015 is rather optimistic.

Of course, if you want to give me $2000 to upgrade my home office to DX11-capable hardware before then, I won't reject your money :)



Dx10 was the first to fully support tesellation and the first dx10 card was mid 2007.

Also you can build a killer dx11 machine with 2 video cards and 8 gigs of ram for under 900$... Your arguments are invalid.
#29 Posted: 2012.12.20 01:00
CCP Mankiller wrote:
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
CCP Mankiller wrote:
WinXP is the problem... It just won't die!


Yeah, to be totally honest I was one of those folks who hung on to Win2K until just about everyone dropped support for it. Only switched to XP in late 2006 for Company of Heroes.


Aha! So everyone who wants tessellation: put a bounty on this guy! TwistedEvil


How do I know if my system can run Dx11?
Gallente Federation
#30 Posted: 2012.12.20 01:02
Offer more cards for plex?
#31 Posted: 2012.12.20 01:10  |  Edited by: Moonaura
So basically CCP, you trolled us. Shocked

Many games are coming out non XP in the next year. Really, this is the last year of XP. And no, you can't point at a concrete block and say, that is why, and say its pointless, when your own freaking demo at fanfest showed exactly why it wasn't pointless.

Remember the crowd cheering for it? Remember people saying they wanted it?

Right now the capitals look awful. I'm sure they might get improved at some point, but at this size, detail makes things look bigger than they actually are. Making stuff just larger with bad textures doesn't make them really feel all that big frankly. They are just filling more screen real estate.
"The game is mostly played by men - 97%. But 40% of them play as women... so thats fine."  - CCP t0rfifrans 
Caldari State
#32 Posted: 2012.12.20 01:10
Is there anything similar tech wise for OpenGL?
I ask because I have a dream of a native Linux client
A war that would’ve involved 20,000 players, 75% of nullsec space, and hundreds of supercapitals was halted not by diplomacy, but by a game mechanic so dreadful that those who have experienced it previously have no desire to do so again. - Fix POS & SOV
#33 Posted: 2012.12.20 01:17  |  Edited by: Bienator II
Kenpachi Viktor wrote:
Is there anything similar tech wise for OpenGL?
I ask because I have a dream of a native Linux client

sure. GL had tesselation long before DX via extensions. Its now core functionality.

the problem with DirectX is that you can not simply use tesselation, you have to use the latest DirectX API which is not backwards compatible with the old stuff. Thats why you see that some games ship with two engine layers, one for DX9 and one for DX11
eve style bounties (done)
dust boarding parties
imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW
C C P Alliance
#34 Posted: 2012.12.20 01:21  |  Edited by: CCP Mankiller
Moonaura wrote:
So basically CCP, you trolled us. Shocked

Many games are coming out non XP in the next year. Really, this is the last year of XP. And no, you can't point at a concrete block and say, that is why, and say its pointless, when your own freaking demo at fanfest showed exactly why it wasn't pointless.

Remember the crowd cheering for it? Remember people saying they wanted it?

Right now the capitals look awful. I'm sure they might get improved at some point, but at this size, detail makes things look bigger than they actually are. Making stuff just larger with bad textures doesn't make them really feel all that big frankly. They are just filling more screen real estate.



I agree: the capitals DO look awful. Trust me, the V3-project will make them look a lot better... (release: around summer 2013)

But: dx11 doesn't make something "just look better", you have to use dx11 features! And that takes dev time...
#35 Posted: 2012.12.20 01:21
ALSO. How does CCP know what kind of machine we use?
C C P Alliance
#36 Posted: 2012.12.20 01:29
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
ALSO. How does CCP know what kind of machine we use?


Go to 1:39!
Cosmic Consortium
#37 Posted: 2012.12.20 01:51
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Of course, if you want to give me $2000 to upgrade my home office to DX11-capable hardware before then, I won't reject your money :)


Word of advice - assemble your own PC and don't **** away your money for nothing. If you play your cards right, catch some good sales and don't do anything stupid, you can have a fantastic PC for a whole lot less. Basic DX11 capable video card (such as HD 5770) is under $100 for crying out loud, and that's "full price". Catch an X-Mas sale, and you can get it for under $70. Bam, install Win7 and you're DX11 compatible!


Word of advice: Don't cheap out on the video card when building a gaming computer: I'd be looking at a GTX 670, which will cost me about $500 in Australia (perish the thought of a GTX680). Then you build the system around the video card: motherboard and case which will fit the card, memory and processor to fit the motherboard.

I gave up building my own computers when we had a LAN party over a 4 day long weekend and spent 2.5 days fixing broken Windows installs. In one case a computer was moved from one room of the house to the common area, and Windows took the opportunity to break the networking drivers and the mouse driver.

I have visited friends trying to convince me to buy a Windows 7 gaming computer. Between all the cables (OMG the cables: I've been using iMacs for 7 years, cables are just not something I want to deal with) and the endless cycle of upgrading Windows, then upgrading video drivers, then waiting for the virus scanner to let you use the computer, we spent an hour waiting for the computer to be ready for us to play a game. He convinced me alright, and that was before Windows restarted the computer in the middle of a game in order to install a "critical update". WTF?

No, I don't have time to futz around fixing things which shouldn't be broken. No, I don't enjoy spending my time watching the sales and computer fairs and special offers just to build a computer for $800 over six months rather than just buying it off the shelf for $2000. That is time better spent shopping for a new investment property or gardening.

Yes, I mad bro.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players
#38 Posted: 2012.12.20 01:51
CCP Mankiller wrote:
WinXP is the problem... It just won't die!
Unfortunately it dies in a year or so. I dread the the time I have to buy a new OS for the 5 machines in our household.
Win Vista? When tried on a new machine (at the time) it made my old ZX Spectrum look fast.
Win 7? When tried I couldn't use half the machines attached to the computer and a lot of the configuration options I am used to simple where not there or excess-able without third party programs.
Win 8? I don't have a bloody smart phone! I have a PC!

Win XP does it's job just fine thank you. Including running EvE.
Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format.
Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
#39 Posted: 2012.12.20 02:01
DO IT DOOOOO ITT That video made me ejaculate 15 times. please. do this. please.
http://aclamthatrants.blogspot.com/
Read up on my adventures.
Minmatar Republic
#40 Posted: 2012.12.20 02:08  |  Edited by: Hakaru Ishiwara
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Considering first DX11 games started to come out in early 2010, I guess it's not too bad, only 3 years behind the times. Big smile


EVE has always lagged several years behind the bleeding edge standards that some non-MMO games require. CCP's "legacy" customers have a ton of older hardware.

Remember the Shader Model 3.0 requirement? Oh, the moans and tears.
+++++++
I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now.
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