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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

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Phoebe Freeport Republic
#6341 - 2012-12-24 13:17:54 UTC
Lyradex Fane wrote:
This... Is bullshit.
You make it so I can't fit a plate, 5 425's, an a fricking AFTERBURNER onto a hurricane? But you buff the DRAKE AGAIN?
Seriously frustrating.
So clearly, you just want drake blob fleets.


You sir, have crap fitting skills.
Mordus Angels
#6342 - 2013-01-08 08:00:32 UTC
"Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar
Tracking mod and disruptor changes moved out of this release until the first set of changes settles a bit"

when this stuff come online?
C C P Alliance
#6343 - 2013-01-08 09:06:03 UTC
ApolloF117 HUN wrote:
"Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar
Tracking mod and disruptor changes moved out of this release until the first set of changes settles a bit"

when this stuff come online?


I'll make a separate post when we're ready to discuss it again, but it's definitely not going to be included in the first major Retri point release. Still too soon to completely gauge the impact of the missile changes.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Caldari State
#6344 - 2013-01-08 09:43:06 UTC
Missile changes were great. *irony off*
Light missiles still don´t even scratch a boosted ab dram and the hm nerf was too much.
Didn´t really see a Drake for ages now. Nowhere. Does anyone still fly it? Are there anywhere drakes left in the galaxy?
Doubt it.

*irony on again*:
Yes we need more missile nerf.

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.

Gallente Federation
#6345 - 2013-01-08 09:54:25 UTC
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
Missile changes were great. *irony off*
Light missiles still don´t even scratch a boosted ab dram and the hm nerf was too much.
Didn´t really see a Drake for ages now. Nowhere. Does anyone still fly it? Are there anywhere drakes left in the galaxy?
Doubt it.

*irony on again*:
Yes we need more missile nerf.


Yeah heavy missile damage nerf was over the top. The range nerf is fine though.
Caldari State
#6346 - 2013-01-08 10:06:02 UTC
Quote:

Yeah heavy missile damage nerf was over the top. The range nerf is fine though.


Agreeing.
The drake is now what the maller once was: BAIT only. Althogh I really didn´t see drake for weeks now. And I live in lowsec only :P

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.

Top Belt for Fun
#6347 - 2013-01-08 10:34:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Valleria Darkmoon
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
Missile changes were great. *irony off*
Light missiles still don´t even scratch a boosted ab dram and the hm nerf was too much.
Didn´t really see a Drake for ages now. Nowhere. Does anyone still fly it? Are there anywhere drakes left in the galaxy?
Doubt it.

*irony on again*:
Yes we need more missile nerf.


HAM Drake sure. Was never big on Drakes to begin with though, it's a boring ship, so very much of it is either passive or turned on and left on. The only thing you ever watch is that you don't cap out leaving an MWD on when you shouldn't.

As for the buffed light missiles against a linked AB dram, that's a pretty specific reference to a single situation and is hardly a case for buffing light missiles further, if it didn't work before AND still doesn't then you're no worse off in that situation and you're still better off in basically any other situation that comes up. We shouldn't make lights overpowered because of this one instance where they are weak, incidentally they are bad at very high speeds as well (5km/s and above). Sometimes the situation just calls for turrets is all.

I should also point out that tracking computers and tracking enhancers would greatly increase the effectiveness of your light missiles in the example you gave.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.

Caldari State
#6348 - 2013-01-08 11:20:24 UTC
HAM DRAKE???
Frig fodder. Drake was always frig fodder but ham drake is really one of the easiest targets for frigs.
HAM Drake has bad scan res plus really bad range plus really bad speed, so it is usable only in special situations where also a Torpedo Raven would fit in.
Already wondering how CCP will fix the raven
The only solution would be to give it a superior scan res to other battleships. So It can target and shoot the primary faster than other bs in fleet to hit simultaneously with the rest of fleet.

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.

Shadow Cartel
#6349 - 2013-01-08 13:06:57 UTC
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
HAM DRAKE???
Frig fodder. Drake was always frig fodder but ham drake is really one of the easiest targets for frigs.
HAM Drake has bad scan res plus really bad range plus really bad speed, so it is usable only in special situations where also a Torpedo Raven would fit in.
Already wondering how CCP will fix the raven
The only solution would be to give it a superior scan res to other battleships. So It can target and shoot the primary faster than other bs in fleet to hit simultaneously with the rest of fleet.



A ham drake using only the launchers does about 60 dps to a webbed ab frig. (140 including drones)

Not a lot true.. But enough to kill a frig before it can even dent the shields on the drake.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

#6350 - 2013-01-08 13:18:02 UTC
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
HAM DRAKE???
Frig fodder. Drake was always frig fodder but ham drake is really one of the easiest targets for frigs.
HAM Drake has bad scan res plus really bad range plus really bad speed, so it is usable only in special situations where also a Torpedo Raven would fit in.
Already wondering how CCP will fix the raven
The only solution would be to give it a superior scan res to other battleships. So It can target and shoot the primary faster than other bs in fleet to hit simultaneously with the rest of fleet.

What make you think they will make any good changes for raven or any other caldari ship? Caldari sucked badly before CCP nerfed last usable missile system in game and I hardly doubt it will ever change. When so-called 'rebalancing' will be finished Winmatars will be masters of missile technologies.

Licensed 07.06.2010 R.I.P 10.06.2012 nevermore.

Caldari State
#6351 - 2013-01-08 17:33:29 UTC
Quote:
A ham drake using only the launchers does about 60 dps to a webbed ab frig. (140 including drones)

Not a lot true.. But enough to kill a frig before it can even dent the shields on the drake.


???
Close range to a HAM drake???
Long point, kill the drones and stay out of the short range of his missiles.
Even javelin ammo with max skills (and many people forget that hams can be skill intensive for max range) will have problems to arrive the frig.
Passive shield tank will mostly prevent the drake from getting killed by ONE frig but the frig will point the drake infinitely while waiting for friends.

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.

C C P Alliance
#6352 - 2013-01-08 18:43:04 UTC
Colt Blackhawk wrote:

Didn´t really see a Drake for ages now. Nowhere. Does anyone still fly it? Are there anywhere drakes left in the galaxy?
Doubt it.


Drake use since the release of Retribution has dropped 4.8%. Usage of the Heavy Missile Launcher II module has dropped 7.8% in the same timeframe. Both well within acceptable ranges for this point and we're continuing to keep an eye on the numbers.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Corus Conglomerate
#6353 - 2013-01-08 19:03:02 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Colt Blackhawk wrote:

Didn´t really see a Drake for ages now. Nowhere. Does anyone still fly it? Are there anywhere drakes left in the galaxy?
Doubt it.


Drake use since the release of Retribution has dropped 4.8%. Usage of the Heavy Missile Launcher II module has dropped 7.8% in the same timeframe. Both well within acceptable ranges for this point and we're continuing to keep an eye on the numbers.


they will see an increase when you allow the tracking modifiers to work on missiles, better nerf missiles a little extra before that

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934

#6354 - 2013-01-08 19:09:59 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Drake use since the release of Retribution has dropped 4.8%. Usage of the Heavy Missile Launcher II module has dropped 7.8% in the same time frame. Both well within acceptable ranges for this point and we're continuing to keep an eye on the numbers.


Ah lovely numbers how I missed thee, any chance at seeing any more to dispel any other incorrect perceptions? Or better still just to see a hint at any trends since the ship changes have been done. If not I understand, time and all of that. But if I could ask for one random bone. How are the hurricane numbers fairing?


C C P Alliance
#6355 - 2013-01-08 19:13:38 UTC
Krell Kroenen wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Drake use since the release of Retribution has dropped 4.8%. Usage of the Heavy Missile Launcher II module has dropped 7.8% in the same time frame. Both well within acceptable ranges for this point and we're continuing to keep an eye on the numbers.


Ah lovely numbers how I missed thee, any chance at seeing any more to dispel any other incorrect perceptions? Or better still just to see a hint at any trends since the ship changes have been done. If not I understand, time and all of that. But if I could ask for one random bone. How are the hurricane numbers fairing?


Hurricane dropped 3.9%. Now this is against a backdrop of increasing users so it's a bit worse than these numbers make it appear, but not that much worse.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Gallente Federation
#6356 - 2013-01-08 19:33:56 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Krell Kroenen wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Drake use since the release of Retribution has dropped 4.8%. Usage of the Heavy Missile Launcher II module has dropped 7.8% in the same time frame. Both well within acceptable ranges for this point and we're continuing to keep an eye on the numbers.


Ah lovely numbers how I missed thee, any chance at seeing any more to dispel any other incorrect perceptions? Or better still just to see a hint at any trends since the ship changes have been done. If not I understand, time and all of that. But if I could ask for one random bone. How are the hurricane numbers fairing?


Hurricane dropped 3.9%. Now this is against a backdrop of increasing users so it's a bit worse than these numbers make it appear, but not that much worse.


How come the loki's powergrid wasn't nerfed with the canes? (Or maybe it was and I can't read?). I feel like arti lokis will just take the place of Tengus now.
C C P Alliance
#6357 - 2013-01-08 19:43:31 UTC
Morgenholt Blue wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Krell Kroenen wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Drake use since the release of Retribution has dropped 4.8%. Usage of the Heavy Missile Launcher II module has dropped 7.8% in the same time frame. Both well within acceptable ranges for this point and we're continuing to keep an eye on the numbers.


Ah lovely numbers how I missed thee, any chance at seeing any more to dispel any other incorrect perceptions? Or better still just to see a hint at any trends since the ship changes have been done. If not I understand, time and all of that. But if I could ask for one random bone. How are the hurricane numbers fairing?


Hurricane dropped 3.9%. Now this is against a backdrop of increasing users so it's a bit worse than these numbers make it appear, but not that much worse.


How come the loki's powergrid wasn't nerfed with the canes? (Or maybe it was and I can't read?). I feel like arti lokis will just take the place of Tengus now.


We're keeping an eye on them.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

#6358 - 2013-01-08 19:46:28 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hurricane dropped 3.9%. Now this is against a backdrop of increasing users so it's a bit worse than these numbers make it appear, but not that much worse.


Thank you most kindly for the info *bows*
Caldari State
#6359 - 2013-01-08 20:22:52 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Colt Blackhawk wrote:

Didn´t really see a Drake for ages now. Nowhere. Does anyone still fly it? Are there anywhere drakes left in the galaxy?
Doubt it.


Drake use since the release of Retribution has dropped 4.8%. Usage of the Heavy Missile Launcher II module has dropped 7.8% in the same timeframe. Both well within acceptable ranges for this point and we're continuing to keep an eye on the numbers.



The question really isn't the dropped usage from hmls or Drakes, but rather hmls on drakes.

If you looked at those numbers, what would they be?

I ask this because hmls are still relatively effective when used on caracals, navy caracals, rooks, tengus, etc. etc...

Soo, in my mind this could effectively mean that the drop in hml launchers is directly relative to the drake.

Also, we're only 1 month into the changes, so I feel that these numbers aren't yet settled on what the final numbers. will be.

Once many of these existing drakes have been destroyed I'm afraid they're not going to get replaced.

Also, there are probably plenty of players who are training out of a drake and just haven't reached a capable skill lvl to be able to fly anything else.


Hell, before these changes I was running around telling many players that if they were going to train missiles then there was no point in training past a tengu and past heavy missiles.

Now..... Well, all I can say is that my over 8mil sp in missiles is going waisted because the only missile boat I currently own is actually a cloaky scanner ship that just happens to have launcher hard points...

While CCP has made cruise and torps more effective, they're still not that effective.
In pve I can take out targets approaching using large turrets without the use of any tracking mods.
However, in a cruise or torp boat I need at least 2 target painters to put max effective dps on a BATTLESHIP, and that's with high support skills.

Personally, I'm wondering if missiles just need to be taken back to the drawing board and just redesigned in a way to make them more competitive when compared to turrets in both pvp and pve.


I don't know what to do as far as changing them in this manner, but then again, I'm not the game designer and shouldn't be responsible for figuring it out.
#6360 - 2013-01-09 20:02:50 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Colt Blackhawk wrote:

Didn´t really see a Drake for ages now. Nowhere. Does anyone still fly it? Are there anywhere drakes left in the galaxy?
Doubt it.


Drake use since the release of Retribution has dropped 4.8%. Usage of the Heavy Missile Launcher II module has dropped 7.8% in the same timeframe. Both well within acceptable ranges for this point and we're continuing to keep an eye on the numbers.



The question really isn't the dropped usage from hmls or Drakes, but rather hmls on drakes.

If you looked at those numbers, what would they be?

I ask this because hmls are still relatively effective when used on caracals, navy caracals, rooks, tengus, etc. etc...

Soo, in my mind this could effectively mean that the drop in hml launchers is directly relative to the drake.

Also, we're only 1 month into the changes, so I feel that these numbers aren't yet settled on what the final numbers. will be.

Once many of these existing drakes have been destroyed I'm afraid they're not going to get replaced.

Also, there are probably plenty of players who are training out of a drake and just haven't reached a capable skill lvl to be able to fly anything else.


Hell, before these changes I was running around telling many players that if they were going to train missiles then there was no point in training past a tengu and past heavy missiles.

Now..... Well, all I can say is that my over 8mil sp in missiles is going waisted because the only missile boat I currently own is actually a cloaky scanner ship that just happens to have launcher hard points...

While CCP has made cruise and torps more effective, they're still not that effective.
In pve I can take out targets approaching using large turrets without the use of any tracking mods.
However, in a cruise or torp boat I need at least 2 target painters to put max effective dps on a BATTLESHIP, and that's with high support skills.

Personally, I'm wondering if missiles just need to be taken back to the drawing board and just redesigned in a way to make them more competitive when compared to turrets in both pvp and pve.


I don't know what to do as far as changing them in this manner, but then again, I'm not the game designer and shouldn't be responsible for figuring it out.



Good points well made, I am of the opinion that sooner or later missiles of all varieties will be phased out. Full stop, no more missiles. This is the second major missile nerf I've had to put up with since joining the community of New Eden. Now I just tell noobs, to 'just train guns'. As for missiles there's no ******* point. Every missile boat I own from frigate to BS underperforms when compared to an equivalent gun toting ship which is sad considering that I have 5 million sp in missiles and roughly the same in gunnery.

Ho Ho there we go.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

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