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[Retribution 1.1] Combat Battlecruisers

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C C P Alliance
#1 Posted: 2013.01.08 20:40  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
:Updated most recently Jan 23rd:
:Made a big post answering questions here on January 10th:

It seems wrong for there to be so few stickies in this section.

Hi everyone! Welcome to our first ship balance thread of 2013! Today we've got a set of battlecruisers for you, the former Tier 1 and Tier 2 BCs, re-branded Combat Battlecruisers.

As with all the tiericide efforts, we are aiming for these ships to have roughly comparable power levels. To that end most of the former Tier 1 ships are getting slots and most of the former Tier 2 ships are losing slots. We gave them EHP closer to the averages of the old Tier 1s and damage closer to the averages of the old Tier 2s.
These ships are getting less dramatic changes than some of the smaller classes but we still expect the meta to change noticeably.

The biggest changes will be seen by the Prophecy and the Cyclone, which are both getting changed weapon bonuses.
The Proph is becoming an heavy tanking droneboat with the choice of missiles or turrets in the highslots (similar to how we have been using the highs of the smaller Amarr droneboats throughout this balance pass).
The Cyclone is swapping its projectile bonus for a missile RoF bonus, giving it the ability to spew missile of any damage type desired. This should help provide more variety of ships to Minmatar pilots who enjoy Breacher/Talwar/Bellicose gameplay and want to go bigger.

We're planning to release these ships in the Retribution 1.1 release scheduled for Feb 19th (Updated with new date) so that we can keep the balance train rolling steadily. I'm working to figure out the earliest point we can get them on a test server so that I can start getting hands on feedback from you all. As always these stats are subject to change and we welcome all the feedback you can provide.

Prophecy:
Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to all Armor Resistances
10% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints

Fixed Bonus:
Can fit Warfare Link modules
Slot layout: 5 H (-2), 4 M (+1), 7 L (+1), 4 turrets (-2), 4 Launchers (+3)
Fittings: 1100 PWG (-200), 415 CPU (+75)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3000(-419) / 5500(+617) / 4000(-395)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 2850(+37.5) / 750s / 3.8 (+0.05)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 150 / 0.704 / 12900000 (-600,000) / 8.5s (-0.4)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 (+50) / 225 (+200)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km / 210 / 6
Sensor strength: 17 Radar (+1)
Signature radius: 270 (+5)
Cargo capacity: 400 (+50)


Harbinger:
Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret Damage
10% bonus Medium Energy Turret capacitor use

Fixed Bonus:
Can fit Warfare Link modules
Slot layout: 7 H (-1), 4 M, 6 L, 6 turrets (-1)
Fittings: 1425 PWG (-75), 375 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3000(-516) / 5000(-469) / 4500(-188)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 3125 / 822s(+72s) / 3.8 (-0.366)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 150 / 0.69 (-0.014) / 13800000 (+300,000) / 8.9s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 75 (+25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km (+5) / 210 / 6
Sensor strength: 17 Radar (+1)
Signature radius: 270 (+5)
Cargo capacity: 375 (+25)


Ferox:
Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to all Shield Resistances
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range

Fixed Bonus:
Can fit Warfare Link modules
Slot layout: 8 H (+1), 5 M, 4 L, 7 turrets (+1)
Fittings: 1250 PWG (+175), 510 CPU (+35)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 5000(+117) / 3500(+81) / 4000(+94)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 2750(+250) / 723s(+56.33s) / 3.8 (+0.05)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 140 / 0.66(+0.06) / 13250000 (-760,000) / 8.2s (+0.3)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km (+5)/ 195 / 8
Sensor strength: 19 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 295 (+10)
Cargo capacity: 475 (+130)


Drake:
Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to all Shield Resistances
10% bonus to heavy and heavy assault missile kinetic damage

Fixed Bonus:
Can fit Warfare Link modules
Slot layout: 7 H (-1), 6 M, 4 L , 6 Launchers (-1)
Fittings: 800 PWG (-50), 500 CPU (-25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 5250(-219) / 3250(-658) / 3750(-156)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 2500(-312.5) / 658s(-92s) / 3.8 (+0.05)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 140 / 0.64(+0.012) / 14810000 (+800,000) / 8.9s (+0.7)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km / 195 / 8
Sensor strength: 19 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 295 (+10)
Cargo capacity: 450 (+105)


Brutix:
Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
7.5% bonus to Armor Repairer effectiveness

Fixed Bonus:
Can fit Warfare Link modules
Slot layout: 7 H, 4 M, 6 L (+1), 6 turrets (-1)
Fittings: 1125 PWG (-25), 435 CPU (+10)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3500(-406) / 4500(+135) / 4750(-133)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 3000(+656.25) / 789s(+164s) / 3.8 (+0.05)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 155 / 0.704(+0.0352) / 12500000 (-750,000) / 8.2s (-0.1)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 200 / 7
Sensor strength: 18 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 305 (+5)
Cargo capacity: 475 (+75)


Myrmidon:
Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Armor Repairer effectiveness
10% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints

Fixed Bonus:
Can fit Warfare Link modules
Slot layout: 5 H (-1), 5 M, 6 L, 5 turrets (-1)
Fittings: 1050 PWG (-125), 400 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3500(-406) / 4500(-188) / 4750(+453)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 2850(+37.5) / 750s(+108.75s) / 3.8 (+0.05)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 145 / 0.704 / 13100000 / 8.6s (-0.1)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 100 (+25) / 200 (+50)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 200 / 7
Sensor strength: 18 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 305 (+5)
Cargo capacity: 400


Cyclone:
Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile rate of fire
7.5% bonus to shield boosting amount

Fixed Bonus:
Can fit Warfare Link modules
Slot layout: 7 H (-1), 5 M, 5 L (+1), 2 turrets, 5 Launchers
Fittings: 1100 PWG (-110), 525 CPU (+100)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 5000(+605) / 3750(-156) / 3750(+331)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 2850(+662.5) / 750s(+166.67s) / 3.8 (+0.05)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 165 / 0.704 / 12500000 / 8.2s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 (+10) / 50 (+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 45km / 220 / 6
Sensor strength: 17 Ladar (+1)
Signature radius: 250 (+10)
Cargo capacity: 450 (-25)


Hurricane:
Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire

Fixed Bonus:
Can fit Warfare Link modules
Slot layout: 7 H (-1), 4 M, 6 L, 6 turrets, 3 Launchers
Fittings: 1125 PWG, 400 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 4250(-47) / 4500(-188) / 3500(-16)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 2250(-562.5) / 592s(-158s) / 3.8 (+0.05)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 165 / 0.704 / 12800000 (+300,000) / 8.4s (+0.2)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 30 / 30
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km (+5) / 220 / 6
Sensor strength: 16 Ladar
Signature radius: 250 (+10)
Cargo capacity: 425 (-50)

Let me know what you think!

:Made a big post answering questions here on January 10th:
#2 Posted: 2013.01.08 20:42
Glue Applied.

Also, first in epic numbars post Big smile

CCP Falcon   ||   EVE Community Manager   ||   EVE Illuminati

@CCP_Falcon   ||   @EVE_LiveEvents
RISE of LEGION
#3 Posted: 2013.01.08 20:46  |  Edited by: Berluth Luthian
Its a new day for cyclones. Will we see fleet cyclone doctrines? I don't have a lot of experience with them, but they seem like they could become a better missile boat than the drake. One question will be comparative cost. If it can hit as hard, while sacrificing a little tank for better mobility at a sizeably reduced cost to the drake, they may be the favored ship.

And as for the Harbinger, back of the envelope math says -1 turret and buffing damage by 5% still ends up being a slight buff (especially since it means more/same damage for less cap). Plus you get more drones in the reserve and a cap recharge boost.

Also with the general rule of +drone capacity for the T1s it may mean that they could end up fitting to a wider more flexible support BC for small gangs.
Late Night Alliance
#4 Posted: 2013.01.08 20:49
But Fozzie, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount on both Gallente Battlecruisers?? But we all know how much active armor tanking sucks!! Whatever will you do about this dilemma..... Twisted
CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Goonswarm Federation
#5 Posted: 2013.01.08 20:50
Care to comment on BPO mineral requirement changes, or will we have to wait for the test server for those?
Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Goonswarm Federation
#6 Posted: 2013.01.08 20:51
Do you think you guys want to do BC then BS by Summer? Is that within the realm of doable?
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
#7 Posted: 2013.01.08 20:51  |  Edited by: fukier
have not read yet... bah i am too slow

now that i ahve read i was really hopping for some usefull bonus for the ferox and the brutix... same for the myrm...

i am happy that it has an extra heavy drone but i would have prefered to get rid of the armor rep bonus and replace with drone tracking and optimal range bonus

as for the ferox...
pretty simple drop the optimal range bonus and replace with hybrid turret damage bonus

and for the brutix 10% bonus to armor rep per level (make it a big incursus)

other than that i am stoked the myrm is getting an extra 25mb...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
RvB - RED Federation
#8 Posted: 2013.01.08 20:52
The Drake is keeping the Kin bonus? Uh huuuuh...
#9 Posted: 2013.01.08 20:57
The Ferox is getting a nice buff...

I like...!!!
*insert witty saying here*
Bitten.
#10 Posted: 2013.01.08 20:58  |  Edited by: Oxandrolone
10st

Its nice that your attempting to make all ships viable but armour self reppers, fix that please before you give that to ships.
Junctio
#11 Posted: 2013.01.08 21:00
Am I happy?
They'll beat someone to death, and if you videotape it, they'll beat you to death.
C C P Alliance
#12 Posted: 2013.01.08 21:00  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
mynnna wrote:
Care to comment on BPO mineral requirement changes, or will we have to wait for the test server for those?

We'll be following the same general idea as previous tiericide classes, except that the former Tier 3 BCs will continue to require more minerals than the Combat BCs due to their role and use of large turrets.

Aryth wrote:
Do you think you guys want to do BC then BS by Summer? Is that within the realm of doable?

I'm not going to make promises until we have the planning for Summer further along, but we'll be getting as much done as quickly as we can time and resources permitting.
A Band Apart.
#13 Posted: 2013.01.08 21:01
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
But Fozzie, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount on both Gallente Battlecruisers?? But we all know how much active armor tanking sucks!! Whatever will you do about this dilemma..... Twisted


You know something you evil man, don't you?
Pasta Syndicate
#14 Posted: 2013.01.08 21:02
Harbinger being welped? Sad
Caldari State
#15 Posted: 2013.01.08 21:02  |  Edited by: Dead Links
Please for the love of God give the Harbinger some more CPU. Or if you are removing a turret simply leave the CPU as it is now, rather than reducing it.
Pandemic Legion
#16 Posted: 2013.01.08 21:02  |  Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Ferox seems pretty terribad, and why does Brutix have an armor repper bonus - so useless ;O

do like the prophecy, myrm and cyclone changes
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#17 Posted: 2013.01.08 21:03
What could be the reasoning behind nerfing the Harbinger? I can't think of anything that ship need taken off. Consider me puzzled
Junctio
#18 Posted: 2013.01.08 21:03  |  Edited by: Musaab Osman
Ammzi wrote:
Harbinger being welped? Sad


Yeah...it seems like they are taking it out to the woodshed. I think it was already underpowered...now it seems like they are just putting it to sleep. Harbinger of what? Defeat?
They'll beat someone to death, and if you videotape it, they'll beat you to death.
Goonswarm Federation
#19 Posted: 2013.01.08 21:04
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
But Fozzie, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount on both Gallente Battlecruisers?? But we all know how much active armor tanking sucks!! Whatever will you do about this dilemma..... Twisted


Until they make these bonuses apply on all reps (remote reps too), the rep bonus will always be inferior to the passive tank since it can't scale in gangs.
#20 Posted: 2013.01.08 21:05
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:
Ferox seems pretty terribad, and why does Brutix have an armor repper bonus - so useless ;O

do like the prophecy, myrm and cyclone changes


thats because it is...

i have no idea why it still have an optimal range bonus...

it really really needs a hubrid turret damage bonus...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
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