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T2 Rigs Revisited?

Author
#1 - 2011-11-06 16:21:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Roonia
Would it be possible to please either increase the bonus for T2 rigs to warrant the astronomical price increase or lower the production requirements to match the measly 5% bonus gained.

For certain items, like cargo rigs for which the bonus is cumulative over long periods of time, its ok to have a big price difference. But for ships that get blown up every 3 hours, the 5% its nearly worthless in the grand scheme of things and the overall damage absorbed or dealt. I would suggest instead of a 5% over T1 riggs, have a 20-30% bonus to whatever attribute they modify.


MODERATOR - could you please clean up the posts with the - in them? I kept hitting QUOTE instead of EDIT. :( Thanks!
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2011-11-06 19:22:07 UTC
Why are you t2 rigging a ship if it gets blown up every three hours
#3 - 2011-11-06 20:52:03 UTC
The difference in potential between meta-3 and meta-4 items is often smaller than 5%, yet the market prices are ten times greater. T2 rigs may be getting some love soon — there has been talk of "manufacturing" T2 salvage from lots of T1 salvage.
#4 - 2011-11-06 21:57:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Roonia
TrollFace TrololMcFluf wrote:
Why are you t2 rigging a ship if it gets blown up every three hours


Precisely my point...this is why you are asking the question. The prices of t2 rigs are outrageous vs their benefits...other the other way around.

Fitting t2 rings should make a significant difference in PVP, not just the expensive KM, which is what they do now. I dont see a justification of a 100 mil rig for a 130 mil ship, for 5% more armor. Its preposterous.
#5 - 2011-11-06 22:02:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Roonia
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#6 - 2011-11-06 22:03:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Roonia
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#7 - 2011-11-06 22:03:53 UTC
Roonia wrote:
Roonia wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
The difference in potential between meta-3 and meta-4 items is often smaller than 5%, yet the market prices are ten times greater. T2 rigs may be getting some love soon — there has been talk of "manufacturing" T2 salvage from lots of T1 salvage.


Irrelevant. The difference in those items prices comes not from the actual performance properties but from the fitting requirements, which makes you able to fit an item or not. Thats where prices come from...FITTING REQUIREMENTS.

The items that have truly staggering performance are the faction items, which have astronomical prices. Faction items give enormous performance bonuses as well much lower fitting requirements. Look up the Federation navy stasis web vs standard t2 web, same for scramblers, and distributors. Do the math on those item stats. They are HUGELY different from any standard/t2 item.

This is where t2 rigs should be. Right up there with faction rigs if there ... were any. The t2 rings just have the astronomical prices but not the performance. Gotta change one or the other.


#8 - 2011-11-06 22:05:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Roonia
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#9 - 2011-11-06 22:10:26 UTC
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#10 - 2011-11-06 23:28:56 UTC
Roonia wrote:
Irrelevant. The difference in those items prices comes not from the actual performance properties but from the fitting requirements, which makes you able to fit an item or not. Thats where prices come from...FITTING REQUIREMENTS.


And yet Arbalest HMLs are more expensive than Malkuth.

Roonia wrote:
Right up there with faction rigs if there ... were any. The t2 rings just have the astronomical prices but not the performance. Gotta change one or the other.


CCP have already hinted that they will be looking at being able to manufacture T2 salvage from T1 salvage. Rather than getting angry about the prices of T2 rigs, look at the reasons that they are so expensive. Rather than increasing their bonuses or reducing the materials required to produce them, what about increasing the availability of the materials used for T2 rigs?
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#11 - 2011-11-07 04:51:27 UTC
Who here doesn't know that tech 2 salvage only comes from

1. tech 2 ships
2. faction ships (one out of a dozen or hundred of nullsec spawns)
3. officer ships (many people have never seen these in years of playing the game)

Yea.... they are allot rarer. Any pubes take them down recently for salvaging?

Making tech 1 salvage turn into tech 2 would decrease supply of one for the other, and bring prices much closer to one another,
#12 - 2011-11-13 14:31:35 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Roonia wrote:
Irrelevant. The difference in those items prices comes not from the actual performance properties but from the fitting requirements, which makes you able to fit an item or not. Thats where prices come from...FITTING REQUIREMENTS.


And yet Arbalest HMLs are more expensive than Malkuth.

Roonia wrote:
Right up there with faction rigs if there ... were any. The t2 rings just have the astronomical prices but not the performance. Gotta change one or the other.


CCP have already hinted that they will be looking at being able to manufacture T2 salvage from T1 salvage. Rather than getting angry about the prices of T2 rigs, look at the reasons that they are so expensive. Rather than increasing their bonuses or reducing the materials required to produce them, what about increasing the availability of the materials used for T2 rigs?



Either way, i dont care which they do so long as they balance out the cost vs the bonuses issue.
Demonic Wheat Pineapple
#13 - 2011-11-13 15:28:46 UTC
TrollFace TrololMcFluf wrote:
Why are you t2 rigging a ship if it gets blown up every three hours


Why do you post?
The Initiative.
#14 - 2011-11-13 20:00:08 UTC
Roonia wrote:
TrollFace TrololMcFluf wrote:
Why are you t2 rigging a ship if it gets blown up every three hours


Precisely my point...this is why you are asking the question. The prices of t2 rigs are outrageous vs their benefits...other the other way around.

Fitting t2 rings should make a significant difference in PVP, not just the expensive KM, which is what they do now. I dont see a justification of a 100 mil rig for a 130 mil ship, for 5% more armor. Its preposterous.


CCP don't set the price on T2 rigs. Increasing their bonus would only increase their price.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

#15 - 2011-11-13 21:26:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Endovior
Malcanis wrote:
Roonia wrote:
TrollFace TrololMcFluf wrote:
Why are you t2 rigging a ship if it gets blown up every three hours


Precisely my point...this is why you are asking the question. The prices of t2 rigs are outrageous vs their benefits...other the other way around.

Fitting t2 rings should make a significant difference in PVP, not just the expensive KM, which is what they do now. I dont see a justification of a 100 mil rig for a 130 mil ship, for 5% more armor. Its preposterous.


CCP don't set the price on T2 rigs. Increasing their bonus would only increase their price.


This. If T2 rigs were, say, twice as effective as T1, then everyone would want them. As is, they're only about 1/3 more effective, so hardly anyone wants them.

That said, Salvage Alchemy would definitely be the way to go, here, if you wanted more T2 rigs around. Just bear in mind that it WILL increase the price of T1 rigs.
#16 - 2011-11-13 21:36:52 UTC
It looks like CCP will try to combat the high t2 rig prices by dropping more t2 loot. See this dev blog.
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2011-11-13 23:05:44 UTC
prices are relative - based on demand. i, too, would like to see more T2 rigs used.

so either enable us to produce T2 salvage or have more T2 salvage droppe, possibly also from more sources, yet at very low chances.

why are some kind of rigs sooo cheap? they dont get used. why? the bonus you would get does not compensate for the slot you sacrifice, as some other rig gives you are preferable fitting. so please, boost bonuses of all seldom-used rigs and fix some fitting requirements - who would ever fit a sentry augmentor II for 300 calibration???

check the moderated 10000 papercuts evelopedia page! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts comment, bump(!) and like what you like

#18 - 2011-11-14 01:15:01 UTC
el alasar wrote:
prices are relative - based on demand. i, too, would like to see more T2 rigs used.

so either enable us to produce T2 salvage or have more T2 salvage droppe, possibly also from more sources, yet at very low chances.

why are some kind of rigs sooo cheap? they dont get used. why? the bonus you would get does not compensate for the slot you sacrifice, as some other rig gives you are preferable fitting. so please, boost bonuses of all seldom-used rigs and fix some fitting requirements - who would ever fit a sentry augmentor II for 300 calibration???


Well im talking about the build costs, not the "market" prices. The build costs are related to the way their salvage raw materials are obtained....which I think should change. Its so limited that its driving the prices up.

But yes, IMHO T2 rigs overall are broken, they need to be looked at. Price, vs performance, vs overall benefits, vs fitting. etc.

Faction items are used more than t2 rigs, even through their are EXPENSIVE. Why? Because the bonuses warrant the expense.
#19 - 2011-11-14 01:19:04 UTC
Endovior wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Roonia wrote:
TrollFace TrololMcFluf wrote:
Why are you t2 rigging a ship if it gets blown up every three hours


Precisely my point...this is why you are asking the question. The prices of t2 rigs are outrageous vs their benefits...other the other way around.

Fitting t2 rings should make a significant difference in PVP, not just the expensive KM, which is what they do now. I dont see a justification of a 100 mil rig for a 130 mil ship, for 5% more armor. Its preposterous.


CCP don't set the price on T2 rigs. Increasing their bonus would only increase their price.


This. If T2 rigs were, say, twice as effective as T1, then everyone would want them. As is, they're only about 1/3 more effective, so hardly anyone wants them.

That said, Salvage Alchemy would definitely be the way to go, here, if you wanted more T2 rigs around. Just bear in mind that it WILL increase the price of T1 rigs.


Price of T1 rigs is driven by the price of salvage and the people who actually compute base build costs. These people have a MINIMUM sell price. If the abundance of T1 salvage does not change, neither will the T1 rig prices.
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2012-01-14 02:21:11 UTC
Sephiroth CloneIIV wrote:
Who here doesn't know that tech 2 salvage only comes from

1. tech 2 ships
2. faction ships (one out of a dozen or hundred of nullsec spawns)
3. officer ships (many people have never seen these in years of playing the game)



Me. I've found a lot of the unbroken salvage from exploration sites.
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