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safe highsec hauling practices

Author
Vanguard.
#1 - 2013-06-17 01:30:52 UTC
title says it all. is double-wrapping in a freighter still an accepted practice? are there any other things that are a good idea for freighter pilots?

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https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=197433

Low-Class
#2 - 2013-06-17 01:32:13 UTC
dont autopilot, train mechanics 5
Vanguard.
#3 - 2013-06-17 14:09:52 UTC
any other tips, anyone?

i make spreadsheets for pretty cheap. contact me for more info.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=197433

#4 - 2013-06-17 14:25:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
Wingmate wrote:
title says it all. is double-wrapping in a freighter still an accepted practice? are there any other things that are a good idea for freighter pilots?

Double wrapping is never a good idea. Current freighter gank fleets on seeing a double wrapped container will assume it is double wrapped because it is expensive. Combine that with the fact that if it drops the entire container drops, not just a portion of its contents. A double wrapped container is a gamble, but a gamble most gankers will take.

Do not auto pilot, warp directly to the gate and jump. Gankers have set ups that can insta lock you, and will often bump you out of alignment to prevent you from warping. If they decide you are a target they will still get you. But auto piloting will make you a much easier target.

Do not carry more than 1 billion isk worth of cargo. Freighters are meant to haul bulk low value cargo, not full loads of high value items. Some freighter ganking doctrines have shown it profitable to gank a freighter with as little as 800M worth of cargo, but they will always target the most valuable target available which is often hauling 2-4 billion worth of cargo.

If you have to haul high value cargo use some friends or alts to help. Scout gates looking for positioned tackle or bumper ships, and use the scouts to web you freighter into a fast warp. 3 webs on a freighter will give it near insta warp. If you are gone before they can scan you, you may get through.

Rename your ship. Often gankers rely on the overview to quickly assess targets. John Doe's Charon has a much higher chance of getting targeted than John Doe's Ibis, or Megathron. Any name other than the default will do. They will see a freighter on d-scan, but if they can not match that ship to a player name in local or a target on the overview it could give you the extra couple seconds you need to escape.

Most freighter ganks take place in bottleneck or 0.5 systems. The targets are normally either ships on autopilot that are easy to target, or ships with way to much value in their cargo hold making them worth the effort. If you follow these suggestions, even just the first two, your chances of survival will go way up. Nothing you do will guarantee your safety, no matter what you do, if someone wants you dead, you will die. But taking steps to ensure that the next freighter behind you is a more appealing target will drastically increase your chances of survival.
Vanguard.
#5 - 2013-06-17 14:39:44 UTC
like, lets say i want to fit a dread or something. the stuff is large but would fit in a transport - would that be a preferable way to move them, then?

i make spreadsheets for pretty cheap. contact me for more info.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=197433

#6 - 2013-06-17 15:22:03 UTC
Wingmate wrote:
like, lets say i want to fit a dread or something. the stuff is large but would fit in a transport - would that be a preferable way to move them, then?


In highsec, literally the only thing stopping people from killing you is that they don't feel like it. The only exceptions are the cloaky haulers which are harder (but no impossible) to catch.

One way to have your stuff moved for you is to use courier contracts. It costs more but if you put proper collateral on it then you transfer the risk of getting ganked to the person doing the moving. If you're fitting a dread then I would split up the items in couriers of max 10k m3 so people can pick them up with cloaky haulers since (I assume) the destination will be in low-sec.

The only other way to get it there with relative safety and ease would be to use a jump freighter if you have one.
#7 - 2013-06-18 10:50:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
I hate to say it, but there is no way you can make it safe. You will already know this. The problem is a completely different one. It is called:

How do I explain the loss of my ship and its cargo?


To solve this problem do you first need to see to whom you will be giving your explanation to. Are you giving it to good people will it have to contain good reasons so the good people can understand that you did good, and only good, and evil has to be blamed. If you have to give the explanation to evil people then it is the other way around.

If you double wrap items then clearly are you trying to hide your cargo. This is an evil action and evil people will approve it even when you lost it, because you tried and your only mistake was to fail. Good people prefer honesty and openness and they will not respect your action, because they will judge your doing regardless of success or failure.

Loading up reasonably and showing what you are loading is the good way of doing it. Evil people do not respect it, because they interpret it as a lack of ambition, a lack of cunningness and as inability to deceive. The loss of your ship and cargo will prove them right. Good people will feel for you, loss or no loss, they might even double-check your math for you and tell you that you did everything right.

Both strategies work. Double-wrapping lets you move more valuable cargo, but do not tell this to good people. Openness and reasonable value works, too, but if you tell it to evil people will they shoot you only to see you explode.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-06-20 05:17:55 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Wingmate wrote:
title says it all. is double-wrapping in a freighter still an accepted practice? are there any other things that are a good idea for freighter pilots?

Double wrapping is never a good idea. Current freighter gank fleets on seeing a double wrapped container will assume it is double wrapped because it is expensive. Combine that with the fact that if it drops the entire container drops, not just a portion of its contents. A double wrapped container is a gamble, but a gamble most gankers will take.

How would the gankers ever know it was double wrapped? It is not like when an item is double wrapped it puts a giant flashy banner on it that says "double wrapped". The courier package doesn't show up on a scan, AFAIK unless recently changed when scanned all it shows is the cargo containers used. If you have everything you are carrying jammed into one container, it shows up as a single container when scanned. Not many gankers I would think are going to sacrifice an entire gank squad on the mystery box behind freighter 2. That would mean anytime you carry an empty general freight container you'd be gank fodder. If you use multiple containers it may look fishy because if they were empty they'd be stacked and they won't appear stacked on scan.
#9 - 2013-06-20 05:38:59 UTC
Generally use cloak ships with high value goods, if it's low volume a strategic cruiser with a tank is probably safest. A tengu can hit around 175k-200k EHP on lowest resist from a few minutes of me playing with EFT using a realistic build with a cloak. 1st protection giving them time to target you or be seen, second is if you lag or something goes wrong they need to have enough fire power to break that tank which would be quite difficult.

AFK route, not preferred and generally discouraged. If you go this route I'd prefer it to be low volume goods and to use a armor tanked EHP buffer tank ship, Augoror Navy Issue, Damnation, Legion (think it was called T3 ammar strategic cruiser) are the three that comes to mind. Armor tanked because you can use slave implants, and even if you don't it is still a gamble as they don't know if you have them which will boost up the EHP tremendously. This is especially true of the Damnation, where you can hit some insane levels of EHP with a realistic build if you choose to use slave implants, where you start making jump freighters look fragile. If you do this though, make sure you are unprofitable to gank still under all circumstances in hi-sec is my advice. So another words don't have 3bil worth of goods in the Augoror Navy Issue when you only have 140k EHP on the lowest resist (I know it can get higher just pulling out a lower number).

Welcome to Eve. Everyone here is an Evil Sick Sadistic Bastard who is out to get you. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either trying to scam you or use you.

IDLE EMPIRE
#10 - 2013-06-20 08:02:50 UTC
have an alt or buddy about to web you, long range multiple webs preferred.

@ChainsawPlankto

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