Test Server Feedback

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Feedback for Hacking/Archaeology feature from 27/5/13 onward

First post First post
Author
#581 - 2013-06-09 12:35:59 UTC
Some thought after playing this for a few more days:

- The minigame makes my wrist hurt after a couple sites in nullsec. it's just too much clicking. Feels like playing Diablo. So i would really like to see the minigame develop in a less clicky but more strategic direction

- The threshold for running the sites in null is too low and that's why we see the loot market prices in free fall. I've seen a km for a Buzzard with over billion loot and t1 analyzers fitted. The loot tables are not the problem imo because running sites in nullsec should pay well. But not every low skilled char in a cheap ship should be able to farm them in such a way. The skill requirements to get adequate virus coherence and strenght for the highest tier sites needs to be higher.

Make some new skills for that or use existing ones like encryption methods. I would happily specialize and learn them if it means less competiton and casual exploring out there. Also probably needs something that puts out damage to the ship. Rats are removed but maybe some defensive nodes or smartbomb for punishing failure. And perhaps a necessity to fit expensive mods for the hacking or a new set of hacking implants. Anything really that sets a higher threshold.

Or at least as a compromise tier the sites more distinctively like the ded sites. Have the lower tiers still be able to run in cheap frig but with payouts closer to hi and low sec and higher tier sites that absolutely require better skills, mods and some tank.
#582 - 2013-06-10 07:53:35 UTC
My 2 cents

I played about 4 hours this WE with my exploration cover ops.
In High Sec.

My feeling is that wormholes are around 80% of system things to discover, fighting site and data are equals, around 10% each.

In 4 hours, I found 4 data site, 2 relic and 2 data.

The hacking minigame is ok, need luck and a bit of strategy (and a good ship/module)
The loot minigame is realy boring, sometimes I don't understand why my tractor beam do nothing, sometimes I don't have time to get more than 2 or 3, and sometime I can get almost all interesting cans.

After the 4h run I had around 5-10Million to sell depending the demands on the market

In conclusion, spending 4h to locate wormholes changing systems, beeing lost, pesting about the tractor beam and returning home with a full cargo give less money than farming L3 mission in the same time


- It could be very much interesting if the spawn rate was better, there is too much wormholes (or too much players scanning I don't know)
- Why not giving exploration agents. giving, in a deapspace, a more personalized scanning.
- There is no real need of a good scanning/hacking ship, it's easyer and faster, but there is no "level" in scanning, if we expect the system security level. But with the crapy spawn rate, there is more chance to find sites where there is a lot of people than in 0.5 or less.


By the way, this is greatly better than the previous system, removing the rats help a lot, gallente cover ops by example have only 2Hslots, so cloak and launcher and it's over.

The scaning game is also easyer, giving 8 probes is too easy I think, and with skills (min 4 in all) the scanning is just a 3D probe moving, in 4 or 5 scans I can get almost anything. I don't know if it's harder in low and null sec.

But for now, it's fun, but not lucrative, very hard to find system with data/relic sites, time needed to hack and looting mecanism, made the whole exploration job not realy good for money. Maybe a rooky can get 1 or 2 million faster than L1 or L2 mission, but with L3 or L4, there is no match
Caldari State
#583 - 2013-06-12 03:18:10 UTC
I feel like the most recent changes to the despawn mechanics is the most detrimental change. It is creating this situation where it become more often than not that you run into partially ran sites with no good value left to be had. It is not fun at all to going around scanning for hours on end and to find close to zero fresh sites. At least with the old mechanic I could be garunteed two outcomes, a untoched site or a target in said site. Now I am left with unfinished sites that are of no use to me that just waste my time. Please tell me this is still being at least looked into. If this is going to stay in as a means to tone down item injection or fix some other problem I feel like it is the completely wrong way to go about fixing those issues. It is doing more harm than good at the moment. I would make plea for it to go back to the way it was before but perhaps a increase despawn timer.
Gallente Federation
#584 - 2013-06-12 14:03:49 UTC
Well could go through all posts so excuse me if i will point out same things. Iv set up my ship for mostly 0.0 explorations and finding those Relic and Data sites. First day i was trying to hack can's without using Cargo Scanner.. Big mistake. Without this scanner you just kinda testing your luck. I made 40 mill in 4-5 hours of flying around 0.0. I have a perfect hacking and decent scanning skills. Next day i went on same journey with cargo scanner fitted and made 100 mill in half an hour couse i did know which small cans i am catching. There is few things that me and probably most of the players don't like in new hacking system.
1. You have to use extra module which has nothing to do with hacking (cargo scanner ) to get good loot from can.
2. You have to use external tools/websites to see what drops what.
3. Even after scanning(Cargo) , hacking, you still get in trouble to catch the right cans couse they all comes in one blob and hard to seperate them. So you ending up with losing what you was after.
4. After scanning Relic/Data site when you come in you realize that (No further tools required) to hack the cans.. Its been done already by some1 else but the site still there .. Lost time on scanning site that is empty.

I would think if you going to keep this hacking system you should seperate small can's that fireing from main can, or launch them in groups of 3-4.. becouse 'tractor beam' simply can not tractor all of them before it disapears.. no metter how fast you are. Also would be a good idea to be able to add small cans to overview.. If we can not do that.. make them diferent collors Ie Material-Red, Parts-Blue, Data-green.. etc. And last.. These sites MUST be gone if some1 already hacked at least one can in it. Couse using cargo scanner they can take best cans and leave the rest for new explorers :).

Sorry for bad english. I hope you got the point :)
#585 - 2013-06-12 15:21:53 UTC
If half finished sites stick around for long time that's not a good solution for the issues with these sites. More frustrating then anything. Just raise the damn entry barrier!
Caldari State
#586 - 2013-06-13 02:52:19 UTC
Johan Toralen wrote:
If half finished sites stick around for long time that's not a good solution for the issues with these sites. More frustrating then anything. Just raise the damn entry barrier!


Well I suppose their solution acomplishes the same mission. I have offically rage quit exploration with the despawn changes. I suppose I could ignore all sigs with the DT sig id, but how many fresh sites we really going to get if hardly anyone is going to despawn the sites? I am starting to think it was their full intention to make things worst with the changes since we have yet to see any response to the feedback or concerns regarding the new despawn mechanics. Granted it is only been a day, but in my eyes it is a game breaking change and im freaking out, help!
#587 - 2013-06-13 08:48:33 UTC
Ms Valkyrie wrote:
Johan Toralen wrote:
If half finished sites stick around for long time that's not a good solution for the issues with these sites. More frustrating then anything. Just raise the damn entry barrier!


Well I suppose their solution acomplishes the same mission. I have offically rage quit exploration with the despawn changes. I suppose I could ignore all sigs with the DT sig id, but how many fresh sites we really going to get if hardly anyone is going to despawn the sites? I am starting to think it was their full intention to make things worst with the changes since we have yet to see any response to the feedback or concerns regarding the new despawn mechanics. Granted it is only been a day, but in my eyes it is a game breaking change and im freaking out, help!


There's always the option to just run around blowing up the cans to tidy the place up a bit.

Though it doesn't seem right that we should spend our space time doing house cleaning Sad
Goonswarm Federation
#588 - 2013-06-16 23:12:03 UTC
Faction tower BPCs should be low/nullsec only. Make this worth our while.

https://twitter.com/pmchem/ || http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/community-spotlight-garpa/ || Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Amarr Empire
#589 - 2013-06-18 04:24:09 UTC
OK CCP, it in your lap again. The failed cargo spew needs to be adjusted. We all let you know that from the test server, now lets hear how you intend to change it.

You said it won't go away, so here is a suggestion: For failed attempts, create an explosion that destroys parts of the containers but releases them into space (salvage). For successful, leave it in place.
C C P Alliance
#590 - 2013-06-20 12:35:54 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP RedDawn
In todays Tranquility update we have introduced new icons for the main scatter containers.

A filled diamond indicates that the container still holds loot.
A filled diamond with brackets around it indicates that it is currently being hacked by yourself or another player.
An empty diamond indicates that there is no more loot held within the container.

Also, we now have a fix in-house for the cherry picking / sites not despawning issue which will be introduced in the next few days.
(Hopefully tomorrow)
This fix is in the form of a site despawn timer that initiates upon the first successful hack of a container within a site.

All the best,
CCP RedDawn

Team Genesis

#591 - 2013-06-20 13:24:08 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:
In todays Tranquility update we have introduced new icons for the main scatter containers.

A filled diamond indicates that the container still holds loot.
A filled diamond with brackets around it indicates that it is currently being hacked by yourself or another player.
An empty diamond indicates that there is no more loot held within the container.

Also, we now have a fix in-house for the cherry picking / sites not despawning issue which will be introduced in the next few days.
(Hopefully tomorrow)
This fix is in the form of a site despawn timer that initiates upon the first successful hack of a container within a site.

All the best,
CCP RedDawn


Thanks for the update RedDawn, the timer fix especially will make a lot of difference
#592 - 2013-06-20 17:34:16 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:

Also, we now have a fix in-house for the cherry picking / sites not despawning issue which will be introduced in the next few days.
(Hopefully tomorrow)
This fix is in the form of a site despawn timer that initiates upon the first successful hack of a container within a site.

All the best,
CCP RedDawn

Please don't forget to include WH data/relic sites in this. There are still some sites that despawn after you warp off, even if no containers have been touched.
#593 - 2013-06-23 11:11:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Lipbite
Too few data/relic sites in low - 1-2 per system at best (more like one per 2-4 systems).

"Loot bukkake" explosion mechanics still sucks - until removed. I'm losing up to 2/3 loot. Could be interesting to know the name of "genius" who proposed it and got an idea to make exploration collective activity.
#594 - 2013-06-23 11:12:33 UTC
The first time I tried hacking (in the profession missions) I was so close to the can that I missed the "spew" and wondered how I was to get the loot to finish the mission! The fact that the mission wording hasn't been changed to take account of the new mechanic didn't help either. Fortunately for me I was aware of the new mini-game because I read the forums but I wonder what new players make of it when there are no clues/hints of what to do.
C C P Alliance
#595 - 2013-06-25 13:24:51 UTC
Colonel Sponz wrote:
The first time I tried hacking (in the profession missions) I was so close to the can that I missed the "spew" and wondered how I was to get the loot to finish the mission! The fact that the mission wording hasn't been changed to take account of the new mechanic didn't help either. Fortunately for me I was aware of the new mini-game because I read the forums but I wonder what new players make of it when there are no clues/hints of what to do.


Yup, this is a known issue.
We will be fixing up the mission descriptions to incorporate these new mechanics soon.

Team Genesis

#596 - 2013-06-25 13:57:24 UTC
The hacking minigame is good as a basis for a more complex and interactive game (it's limited at the moment, but it's ok as a basis for future iteration).

Loot spewing is ... well... not Eve at all ? I mean, it's ok, I get the cans I want by checking the name, and have the valuable loots, so I just don't care about missing cans.

But man ! Frantically running after disappearing objects just isn't Eve at all. I feel like playing a flash game on armorgames :-(
Gallente Federation
#597 - 2013-07-02 04:00:22 UTC
Alright...I slugged my way through all 30 pages of this drekk, and I am ready to give my well thought through and deliberated opinion.

All is fine with the exceptions of:

Loot Pinata
Samey Game

I'll tackle the latter first as it's shorter: I expect this to clear up as the actual minigame gets deepened and expanded, but right now the hacking minigame, while enjoyable, is going to get very repetitive very quickly, I can tell. Worsened only by the fact that it is identical for both Relic and Data sites. Again, subsequent expansions on the system should remedy this.

Now, for the elephant sized bugbear in the room: Dat pinata.

Do not get me wrong. I think it's novel. I think it has it's place. I also think, and strongly so, that it is not in it's place. I shaln't delve back into what more people than I can count on both hands have spent whole pages clarifying with exceptional eloquence, suffice to say that having a frantic scrabble as the ultimate victory condition is a hectic end for an otherwise laid-back and almost labor-less process (typical vigilance required for low/null/WH presence excepted. In highsec, you can do this with one hand, half asleep and slightly drunk, and I don't see that this is a bad thing. Most everything can (with varying degrees of efficiency)).

Unlike several, I shall attempt to offer alternatives to bring this more in line with the rest of the process. In so doing, I shall quite literally steal others' ideas I approve of, add a few of my own, and I will not reference them because I do not want to have to go back through these 30 pages. Sorry guys, credit's due but I'm not giving it out. Also, quotes take up too many characters as I found out. This post got a bit lengthy. Anyways, to ideas:

1) Loot Pinata is a loss occurrence.
I'm not 100% fan of this, but it might be workable. You hack the site. you fail it. Loot splurts out everywhere and you have to do your best to salvage your rewards before they drift away into obscurity. Somewhat more satisfying than the old system of waiting for another cycle on module x/y/z. Not terribly conducive to the "you fail? 1 more try" notion. That's a matter of balance though.

1.1) Time limit on attempts? Maybe? Work that however you want. Jetcanning the notion out there.

2) Loot Pinata is a partial victory
There are several ways this can be implemented, as these are (straight up copies or adaptations of) idea's I've pulled out of my arse in the hour I've been sitting here or stolen from others:
A) You clear the board (of firewalls or completely), you get a tidy loot can. You only hack the core, enjoy chasing your goodies :3 Rewards the extra effort for the extra clicking, and it also means that a experienced hacker won't have to go scrambling As often. (I haven't been graced with a high tier system to hack yet, but it seems the consensus is some of them would be nigh-impossible to clear completely)
B) Multiple cores to hack. Each one gives a portion of the total rewards in a loot can, and the rest on eventual failure are jettisoned for cluster-clicking/exploded mercilessly/insert-alternative-unpleasant-fate.
C) Multiple levels of encryption to break through. See B), just more drawn out.

3) Loot Pinata is a Partial Failure
Not entirely sure how this would be balanced, but I'm throwing it out there anyways. I guess one way it could work is if you had multiple anti-cores/attempts within the minigame (lives, if you will, instead of straight up 2 tries) and each one you botch removes a portion of your eventual loot (if any) And scatters it for you to sift though. Though this very much relies on how the minigame itself expands, it's something to consider.

4) Topical Pinataing.
I can get by having archeology sites blow their load all over my face like the old geezers they are. I don't particularly enjoy it just as much as the analogy I unintentionally made, but I can live with it - it makes a bit of contextual sense to have an ancient hulk's cargo be blasted off into space when the wrong seal is broken - but aren't data sites supposed to be - well - modernish? Lore aside, it would give a much needed distinction between relic and data sites beyond the loot they drop and the modules they need :/
Hell, take that idea a few yards further and make a handful of (subtly) Different minigames with different results. Variety is the spice of life, and exploration has always needed some spicing. I am fully aware that this would be a bunch of coding, but you've got time.

Don't get me wrong. I like most of the changes, especially to the scanning UI. You've got a good idea going for your guys here and I do not want to see it scrapped - but your implementation is all cockeyed IMO. I've literally spent an hour of my life hemorrhaging ideas into this textbox for you, attempting to refine 30 pages of mostly butthurting into something somewhat palatable (and I give kudos to the handful who already attempted to refine it so *I* could palate it) and hopefully workable. I WANT this to get tidied up and functional, because I very much think it's not a terrible idea, but it's like watching a 5 year old trying to stick a square block in a circular hole, and I think we (read: you) need to stop trying to shave the block and start trying to find the proper hole.

And speaking of hemorrhaging ideas, though I'm running out of characters - I can only reiterate what so many people have said before with varying tones of amicability-hostility: If you REALLY want to make exploration more group orientated, you have to work on the minigame aspect. Get multiple people involved with the puzzle (how, I can't figure. I leave that to you like an unhelpful forumer) and THEN you can justify having them scramble to pick up the pieces (though with 2+ people working, it offeres more ways to screw up, so you can find more and more adventurous ways to punish them)

TL,DR: Tough, go back and read it. Minigame needs more shizz in it though.
Shadow Cartel
#598 - 2013-07-19 18:09:00 UTC
This hacking thing was so good that it crashed the market


Op successsss? :P

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

#599 - 2013-07-22 08:36:22 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
This hacking thing was so good that it crashed the market


Op successsss? :P


Scanning and hacking so easy anyone can do it without skills, market flooded so now the return isn't worth anything except for the new guys, perfect result if you only want the new pilots doing anything to do with exploration.
Shadow Cartel
#600 - 2013-07-22 09:02:59 UTC
Ruskarn Andedare wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
This hacking thing was so good that it crashed the market


Op successsss? :P


Scanning and hacking so easy anyone can do it without skills, market flooded so now the return isn't worth anything except for the new guys, perfect result if you only want the new pilots doing anything to do with exploration.



I don't know, with subpar skills i did blow up a few 150 mill+ cans when i tried it out =<

I really like the hacking minigame, i don't have time to PVE so i dont' do it but if i did it would probably be this.. or WH's.. probably WH's.. i like isk/hr.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Forum Jump