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Mobile Siphon Unit - Feedback

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Author
The Initiative.
#1 - 2013-10-24 00:28:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Vandango Audene
As i've been eagerly awaiting for these lovely little guys to appear on SiSi, i tested these as soon as they were seeded

The Goods.

  1. Quick Anchoring Time
  2. Cheap and No Skills to Anchor.
  3. Good Effective Health

1. 20 Seconds to Anchor, which is awesome for a small deploy-able and does not have an online time.

2. This allows access to newer plays to try a different life style of warfare. Christ id love to be a 20 day old character again and start robbing PL's moons.

Example : One Siphon unit of a Neodymium moon equates to 1,916,406 ISK (Current Tranq Jita Price)
Per Cycle this would take 5 hours for the siphon unit to pay for it self and start making a profit. this is awesome.

So say the owner of the tower did not check it for a week

At 1,916,406 per hour (54 Units , 6 Were wasted)

45,663,744 Per Day

321,956,208 Per Week. (Thats amazing...)

Providing no issues such as someone else stealing the Goo. or the siphon unit being destroyed.

3. If the POS is armed this stops 3rd party's killing your siphon units with medium sized ships due to its large structure buffer.

The Bads. (In my opinion)

  1. There too small.
  2. The m3 of the contents are displayed when mouse hovered
  3. Siphon does not make it clear which moon harvester its targeting (if there's 2 Harvesters)

1. Personally i think there too small. all frigates will be able to carry one. i wouldn't mind them being pumped to to 100m3+ (200m3 is my ideal size) so you would either have to sacrifice fitting or use an exploration ship such as a heron or a probe

2. There contents are visible even outside of looking range, you take no risk and its quite easy to tell whats inside. if you were within a certain range of the unit that would seem more appropriate. at its current state you can see how much goo is inside even if your 400km away from it.

3. If there POS has 2 harvesting units, you don't know which goo your targeting nor does the siphon unit tell you. i tested this with a Neo and Mercury Setup, now because i anchored and started the Neo harvester first it stole from that one and not the mercury one. i do agree you don't have alot of time to configure one to target a specific harvester but you should have the choice.

Bugs

  1. They Currently have no error message for deploying them outside of tower control range.
  2. If you open the cargo through the selected items window on the overview it does not display the loot inside
  3. The Generated Killmail does not list if anything was dropped or destroyed


1, Message: 'CantDeployTooFarFromControlTower'
Args: {'maxDistance': 50000.0}

Suggestions

  • Also i think it would be for the greater good if the wastage factor was a variable instead of a flat 10% so it would randomly waste between 10 and 20% of its content it stole

Things to Know about them.

  • They Generate Killmaills (Intended?)
  • Currently owned by the corporation so they have a corp ticket (This is not intended)
  • You cannot put stuff inside them
  • They take 30 seconds to activate from launch (Will be reduced to 5.)
  • They always drop loot. (Needs confirming!)
  • Other Siphon units cannot be deployed within 5000m of each other
  • They oddly come up with the error " You cannot anchor this within 30km of a control tower" if you try to online them within the POS Shield
Jane Schereau
#2 - 2013-10-24 01:56:30 UTC
mmm, I couldn't find any for sale. Where did you get yours?
#3 - 2013-10-24 07:47:56 UTC
Jane Schereau wrote:
mmm, I couldn't find any for sale. Where did you get yours?

They're for sale in any seeded system under 'Ship Equipment > Deployable Equipment > Mobile Siphon Units'.
#4 - 2013-10-24 08:21:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Lipbite
Vandango Audene wrote:
1. Personally i think there too small. all frigates will be able to carry one.

New interceptors cannot carry them. Not without cargo expander at least.
#5 - 2013-10-24 08:45:07 UTC
Vandango Audene wrote:


Since its a deploy-able it has a corp ticker and the character who deployed it attached to it. so no robbing my own allies
Sad

was so looking forward to it :P


Use an out-of-corp alt.
#6 - 2013-10-24 11:15:10 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Paradox
Vandango Audene wrote:
As i've been eagerly awaiting for these lovely little guys to appear on SiSi, i tested these as soon as they were seeded

The Bads. (In my opinion)

  1. There too small.
  2. The m3 of the contents are displayed when mouse hovered
  3. Siphon does not make it clear which moon harvester its targeting (if there's 2 Harvesters)


1. Personally i think there too small. all frigates will be able to carry one. i wouldn't mind them being pumped to to 100m3+ (200m3 is my ideal size) so you would either have to sacrifice fitting or use an exploration ship such as a heron or a probe

2. There contents are visible even outside of looking range, you take no risk and its quite easy to tell whats inside. if you were within a certain range of the unit that would seem more appropriate. at its current state you can see how much goo is inside even if your 400km away from it.

3. If there POS has 2 harvesting units, you don't know which goo your targeting nor does the siphon unit tell you. i tested this with a Neo and Mercury Setup, now because i anchored and started the Neo harvester first it stole from that one and not the mercury one. i do agree you don't have alot of time to configure one to target a specific harvester but you should have the choice.


BUGS

If you open the cargo through the selected items window on the overview it does not display the loot inside



Also i think it would be for the greater good if the wastage factor was a variable instead of a flat 10% so it would randomly waste between 10 and 20% of its content it stole

also.

Since its a deploy-able it has a corp ticker and the character who deployed it attached to it. so no robbing my own allies
Sad

was so looking forward to it :P


Quickly will give you feedback since you gave such good feedback to us.
The bad points:
1. This is the "small" siphon unit. There may be other varations in the works which fit the Medium or Large name Blink
2. This is a bug, you will not be able to see what is inside the unit until you get into range. After that it acts similar to all other structures and wrecks if you are viewing it. You will be able to see how full it is though through the UI. This is so that when you drop on grid with a POS that has full defenses, you can quickly spot something to try and grab and run.
3. You don't have any control over what is being stolen. So you have no guarantee that it will steal anything. We have thought about different units that would give you the option to choose what was being stolen, but Rubicon will just ship with the Small unit.


And the corp ticker issue will no longer be there shortly :) You can still find out in show info the pilot who deployed it, but it wont be visible at a glance in space.
And as somebody said, "alts". These units require no skills to deploy, so anyone can deploy them.

The activation timer will be shortened to 5 seconds also.

CCP Paradox | EVE QA | Team Phenomenon

Space Magician

Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-10-24 12:33:26 UTC
Paradox, having day 1 biomass alts deploy these things are bad.

require anchoring level 1 or level 4 at a minimum to deploy it (yes I know they don't need anchoring, but should require the skill to at least deploy it).

This would also remove any possible trial account abuse in deploying these.

Yaay!!!!

Imperium Eden
#8 - 2013-10-24 12:44:12 UTC
I'm not a fan of a design that encourages day old anonymous alts.

EVE is meant to be about consequences. Being able to use easily bio-massed alts seems a simple way to avoid them.
#9 - 2013-10-24 13:22:05 UTC
I have to say I really enjoy the model of the Siphon unit. One of the best looking structures to date.

I think that stats are quite spot on for the small unit at least.
Army of New Eden
#10 - 2013-10-24 14:36:11 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:
And as somebody said, "alts". These units require no skills to deploy, so anyone can deploy them.


Yeah, I think this needs to be changed. This would, in effect, invalidate the change to the limits of Syphons a player can launch, which I think is a good cap.

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander

Together We Solo
#11 - 2013-10-24 14:55:52 UTC
Are there even any POS's on the Test server for us to try this out on? I though sisi didn't have any? Or de we have to build one ourselves and then have a friend test the unit out?
The Initiative.
#12 - 2013-10-24 16:36:52 UTC
Updated my Post, Formatting and some general odd facts about them
#13 - 2013-10-24 17:40:39 UTC
Suggestion. If for whatever reason the siphon units get a rare faction version, and that faction happens to be rogue drones, can you name it "(size) siphon unit X-W1F3" ..??
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-10-27 14:16:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
I am looking at the attributes of a siphon:

http://i.imgur.com/5gsTBKo.jpg

I see three errors here:
First, the attribute named "Minimum Anchoring Distance From Starbase Shield" (50 km) should probably be "Maximum Anchoring Distance From Starbase".
Second, "Restricted To Security Level Less Than" should probably be 0.5 instead of 0.4 (unless you intend them to be unusable in 0.4, I haven't tested that).
Third, "Shield recharge time" is using an inconsistent capitalization. It should be "Shield Recharge Time" to go with the other attributes.

Also as an interesting observation, siphons by default don't appear on your overview. This has the potential to severely confuse inattentive POS managers.
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-10-27 16:15:19 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Paradox, having day 1 biomass alts deploy these things are bad.

Why? Eve is a game where there shouldn't be consequences to what you do.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.

Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-10-27 22:10:14 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Paradox, having day 1 biomass alts deploy these things are bad.

Why? Eve is a game where there shouldn't be consequences to what you do.


This is Eve, not wow.

As long as there is somekind of actual ownership to it (aka you can find out who did it), I'm fine with the module.

People rolling a bunch of trial alts and spamming territories with these things leads to an issue of actual ownership and griefing (now I have no issue with griefing, but there is a limit to it, a total 1 day unknown dropping 100 of these in 30 systems...

eh.. no.

Now I'm sure people already will use characters on there other accounts, but at least those come from paid accounts, and not the 14 day freebies.


Yaay!!!!

Caldari State
#17 - 2013-10-27 23:38:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
I think I have stumbled upon a bug with the siphons. I have dropped 9 at once on a mining tower. The tower has nothing but a single miner linked to a single silo. Both the miner and the silo are online and correctly linked together. But the moongoo just seems to vanish - it doesn't go in the silo, and it doesn't go in any of the siphons. This has been happening for 3 POS ticks (3 hours) so far.

Yes, I fly to each siphon manually, right-click them in space and select open cargo. I got one siphon working as intended before, so this is not an UI error.

If GMs/devs want to check, the tower is in HLW-HP at P6 M8. I'll leave it set up as it is for a while.

I was playing around with various reactors, silos and miners setups before encountering this problem, so it's possible something got messed up along the way. Tomorrow I will set up a new POS from scratch and try to duplicate the issue.
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-10-28 00:45:42 UTC
Siphons also don't appear to have any collision detection whatsoever. I tried bouncing off a siphon really hard and I always just passed right through it. I don't know if this is intended (for easier deployment) or a glitch/not yet implemented.
Northern Coalition.
#19 - 2013-10-28 01:51:52 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
I am looking at the attributes of a siphon:

http://i.imgur.com/5gsTBKo.jpg

...

Second, "Restricted To Security Level Less Than" should probably be 0.5 instead of 0.4 (unless you intend them to be unusable in 0.4, I haven't tested that).
.



Well you can't anchor reactors or moon harvesters in 0.4 so as there are no modules you can use them on why should you be able to deploy them?
#20 - 2013-10-28 16:43:51 UTC
After some discussion, we have added the requirement of Anchoring at level 2, to be able to deploy them.

CCP Paradox | EVE QA | Team Phenomenon

Space Magician

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