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Dev Blog: Reprocess all the things!

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Gallente Federation
#81 - 2014-03-20 15:52:28 UTC
I would like their to be some static structures similar to POCO's that are owned by players in space near planets or something that can offer exceptional reprocessing efficiency but taxed by the owner.

Obviously, Hi sec would offer a small benefit. Low sec a really good benefit and null sect the best benefit.

Would drive conflict as people would like to have their own refineries in busy systems where volume of ore refined would be high.
Goonswarm Federation
#82 - 2014-03-20 15:54:30 UTC
Right now the ore compression BPOs each require the corresponding ore reprocessing skill to level 4 to use the BPO in a rorqual.

Currently, you don't need any refining or reprocessing skills to do ore compression, just some 425mm BPOs and production efficiency level 5.

Will the ore reprocessing skill requirements be going away to use the compression arrays along with the compression BPOs, or will anyone planning to do compression also have to train the relevant ore reprocessing skills?
#83 - 2014-03-20 15:54:37 UTC
Berluth Luthian wrote:
Don't some FW stations get special reprocessing bonuses based on upgrade level?

it would be hilarious if amarr would get a special bonus for reprocessing minmatar equipment (and vice versa) at certain upgrade lvl.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

#84 - 2014-03-20 15:55:21 UTC
Sounds great, while you're at it can you make hidden belts I dunno... hidden again?

Remove them from the discovery scanner. This + the interceptor buff means mining in null is suicidal at best.

[b]THE KING OF EVE RADIO

If EVE is real, does that mean all of us are RMTrs?[/b]

Caldari State
#85 - 2014-03-20 15:56:43 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:


We all know that a lot of them make money from mining, processing and then selling the minerals or making stuff. If we undermine their ability to do this how many of them are going to stay around and get more into the game?



which really is by far the most boring activity in eve. i guess more people quit because mining is boring than anything else.

(sadly) there are plenty people around that will buy ore or support newbie miners in mining corps.



Yes but it is probably the most profitable thing a new player can do when they just start out, they're introduced very early on in the tutorials and they give them a good stable income (about 2 million an hour) while their training up for other stuff like combat ships. If they aren't making much money then their going to give up.
RvB - BLUE Republic
#86 - 2014-03-20 15:57:45 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We tried to find a term that would encompess both reprocessing and refining, but with no avail.
The Diamond Age refers to it as 'molecular disassembly' which is obviously a mouthful

  • desynthesize
  • decompose
  • dismantle
  • deconstruct
  • disintegrate

or if you want to coin a term:

  • defabricate
  • dematerialize

FWIW I think reprocess is the best choice because everyone already recognizes it and it's close enough in meaning to both cases. Surely the ore/ice has already been 'processed' to some degree since it's being vaporized and sucked along a laser beam or something... as far as I can tell it's not like you are actually taking a hammer and smashing up a chunk of asteroid
C C P Alliance
#87 - 2014-03-20 15:58:58 UTC
Janine Ibanez wrote:
Right now the ore compression BPOs each require the corresponding ore reprocessing skill to level 4 to use the BPO in a rorqual.

Currently, you don't need any refining or reprocessing skills to do ore compression, just some 425mm BPOs and production efficiency level 5.

Will the ore reprocessing skill requirements be going away to use the compression arrays along with the compression BPOs, or will anyone planning to do compression also have to train the relevant ore reprocessing skills?


We're not planning on having skills to be able to compress ores in the Rorqual / Starbase Compression Arrays so far. Just right-click the ore and get bacon. Again, this may change depending on time / feedback though.
The Explicit Alliance
#88 - 2014-03-20 16:00:07 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
CCP Logibro wrote:
Dis gone be good. Seriously though industrialists everywhere rejoice.


I spend 10 hours a day mining in null, I build everything from frigates to titans... this change is pretty much *Snip* Please refrain from using profanity. ISD Ezwal..
SERIOUSLY... it's not broken, fix something else.
Circle-Of-Two
#89 - 2014-03-20 16:01:23 UTC
Why is alchemy refining not included at the refining array?
#90 - 2014-03-20 16:01:37 UTC
So just to be clear:

AS the "Volume" column of compressed ores is not present in "after" the ONLY thing changing for Rorqual compressing is the added 38.1% of minerals which is doen to EVERY ore anyway.

So the volume stays the same, the time needed to compress (which is far too long for Ice nowadays) stay the same and the overall yield is just kept "the same" as well? (Ice has a crappy compress rate anyway)

So....where does this include a boost to compression? The only thing it does is make compression via POS and Rorqual mandatory which is kinda of a boost for them but nerf for everyone else. Either change the volumes of the compressed batches as well to be viable and the time to compress itself as well..
DARKNESS.
#91 - 2014-03-20 16:01:49 UTC
And what about mineral compression?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Caldari State
#92 - 2014-03-20 16:01:54 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Janine Ibanez wrote:
Right now the ore compression BPOs each require the corresponding ore reprocessing skill to level 4 to use the BPO in a rorqual.

Currently, you don't need any refining or reprocessing skills to do ore compression, just some 425mm BPOs and production efficiency level 5.

Will the ore reprocessing skill requirements be going away to use the compression arrays along with the compression BPOs, or will anyone planning to do compression also have to train the relevant ore reprocessing skills?


We're not planning on having skills to be able to compress ores in the Rorqual / Starbase Compression Arrays so far. Just right-click the ore and get bacon. Again, this may change depending on time / feedback though.


So does these changes effectively mean that if you have access to a POS (in high, low or null), then you can refine with a ~70-75% (can't remember the exact figure), and compress ore without any skill training whatsoever?

Whereas people who refine ores in a high/low sec station have to spend half a year training, and still struggle to get comparable refining rates?
#93 - 2014-03-20 16:03:27 UTC
Now if you could add a reprocessing input category of corpse and an output category of implants I would be overjoyed.
Goonswarm Federation
#94 - 2014-03-20 16:03:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Emilia Istis
From what I understand rorqual is a tool to compress and transport large quantities of ore from null to hi. and what will be a tool to carry them from hi to null

after the change, will no longer be used all methods of compression, ie 425 railgun
is there any plan to allow transportation tritanium from hi to null, as you know there is a little veldspar in null

transporting minerals from high to null becomes a real pain in the ..
Goonswarm Federation
#95 - 2014-03-20 16:04:39 UTC
The table does not have the new volumes of compressed ore. Is that deliberate?

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Gallente Federation
#96 - 2014-03-20 16:07:35 UTC
CCP Logibro wrote:
Dis gone be good. Seriously though industrialists everywhere rejoice.


If by everywhere you mean sov null then yes. They can enjoy being the only region of space that can build anything bigger than a BS without throwing away 100s m ISK at a time.

This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main.

Amarr Empire
#97 - 2014-03-20 16:08:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jagoff Haverford
CCP Ytterbium wrote:

We're not planning on having skills to be able to compress ores in the Rorqual / Starbase Compression Arrays so far. Just right-click the ore and get bacon. Again, this may change depending on time / feedback though.
This makes little sense. You have a huge set of changes which tell the player base to train the refining skills. And then you turn around and make the skills irrelevant for refining at POSs and for compressing ore.

I have an alt that I've been training to sit in a Rorqual. He wasn't going to do refining per se; I have another character that already had refining skills. He was just going to sit in the Rorqual and compress things. A very large portion of his skill queue was dedicated to getting all of these refining skills up to level 4 so that he could compress every kind of ore. Now you are telling me that all of that time (and money) was wasted, since he won't need these skills.

Don't invalidate months of training that just about every Rorqual character has done. If ore-specific refining skills are going to become important, then at least let them retain the little bit of importance that they already had!
#98 - 2014-03-20 16:09:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Orion Guardian
Oh Yeah and second: Yes nice that you can compress the ore at the same mineral/volume ratio as before (in absolute numbers) but that does change SQUAT for minerals...425mms were used to export MINERALS to nullsec, so we should import ORE to nullsec now instead? hoping that miners do not refine it and sell the minerals?

I mean, how stupid is that? Yes compression of ore might be 'boosted' or at least be kept similar, but compressing the minerals again is made completely useless: That just means nullsec manufacturing WILL take a hit! [think about how easy it is to buy minerals in Highsec and how unlikely it is to have the same amount or ore bought....]

I am not sure, maybe I missed something or this is a very very stupid way to "boost" something...
Neki Koskanaiken
#99 - 2014-03-20 16:09:20 UTC
Many short sighted industrialists might QQ over this but let me assure you this is a very good change. It will improve the health of EVE in so many ways, it's blowing my mind.
Of Sound Mind
#100 - 2014-03-20 16:10:07 UTC  |  Edited by: June Ting
Please, think of the NPC null and lowsec dwellers.

This change makes alchemy impossible for anyone outside of sovnull, unless NPC null and NPC low stations are buffed to have better refine rates than NPC high, which is the benchmark comparison for these changes to sovnull.

Why?

Profit margin on a typical high-profit (e.g. worth doing) alchemy reaction worth doing is about 20-25% before fuel costs (see https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/reactions/), and about 10% after fuel costs of ~200M per month per reaction are accounted for.

If NPC null and low yields are kept in lockstep with NPC high yields at 50% base, scrap metal processing with perfect skills will yield 55% in NPC null, and 62% on a double-upgraded Minmatar outpost. This means that those with access to a double-upgraded Minmatar outpost *anywhere* they have docking rights (and with alchemy output so small, it actually is quite feasible to get the outputs there regardless of distance from POS being maintained) will have alchemy yields that are nearly 13% better than those of NPC null and NPC low dwellers. In a competitive market, this would result in a supply glut from sovnull dwellers, bringing profit margins down to 0% or negative for those without sovnull access, while maintaining existing net profit margins of 10-15% for sovnull dwellers. The relative scarcity of double-upgraded Minmatar outposts does not matter -- you only need *one* dockable to you within the nearest 3-4 regions to attain these types of yields. The addition of POS refining arrays anchorable only in low/null does not help -- the refining arrays do not deal with alchemy products.

As it is, with the sov fuel bonus giving sovnull dwellers a 50M isk per month advantage per reaction line, many reactions are profitable only in sov null and not in NPC low/null. This would be fine on its own, but I'm worried that the combination one-two punch will completely eliminate the incentive to do this form of industry in NPC low/null.

I feel that a base refine of 56-58% would be appropriate for NPC null stations, and a base refine of 53-54% would be appropriate for NPC low stations -- it gives some advantage to double or triple upgraded sovnull stations, while not entirely stamping out reaction farming for those who choose not to dwell in sovnull.

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