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Dev blog: Fortune Favors the Bold

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FUBAR.
#181 - 2014-05-07 05:05:38 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Personally, I hope this new ship gets used by every plexer and eventually the neuts that thrive on FW kills will get bored and go elsewhere.
Then and only then might FW become about FW and not neutrals killboard stats and plexing for isk.

2 Militias facing off to fight for a system would be worth being involved in.

Oh, you poor thing! Did the nasty neutrals kill you? Maybe CCP should move FW to highsec. Would that suit? Because that is effectively what you are asking for.

I was going to write that I now feel bad about killing FW farmers in lowsec. But I didn't want to lie, even on this forum.

It really is easy to pick 1 sentence and take it completely out of context.. Mentality goes with attitude. When both are bad it makes for even worse replies - see above..

As I said, if all plex farmers used covert cloaky stabbed ships, you would have nothing to gloat about. With your attitude I would bet, you would be the 1st to complain how unfair it is.

My FW alt has netted me over 4 bil in the last couple of months (a few hours every now and then) - I now don't even bother fitting webs and scrams, 1 gun to kill the present Npc, stabs and cloak. Watch the neuts warp in, wait till they leave and collect my bounty (LP).

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode - Vice Admiral, Forum Dictator, Arrogant Nobody

C C P Alliance
#182 - 2014-05-07 10:58:40 UTC
Hey everyone. Thanks for the feedback so far.

I just got back to work after a bit of post-fanfest death plague recovery. I'm working through a bunch of threads to catch up on what was discussed over Fanfest and the last two days.

I've now caught up on this thread and I'm glad to see how many players are excited by the concept of this ship.

Quick note: I'm not worried about the Prospect being used for afk FW farming since as of Kronos it will be impossible to cloak within capture range of a FW button.

Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/

Lethal Intent.
#183 - 2014-05-07 11:04:34 UTC
oh, my
Spaceship Bebop
#184 - 2014-05-07 11:07:06 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Thanks for the feedback so far.

Quick note: I'm not worried about the Prospect being used for afk FW farming since as of Kronos it will be impossible to cloak within capture range of a FW button.


Uhh..... It should be mentioned that this is going to have the opposite effect of what you guys intend... Just saying...
-Do you want to know more?

Un.Bound
#185 - 2014-05-07 11:07:57 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Quick note: I'm not worried about the Prospect being used for afk FW farming since as of Kronos it will be impossible to cloak within capture range of a FW button.

I knew i liked you

You Can't Fly In Here

Lethal Intent.
#186 - 2014-05-07 11:27:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Benny Ohu
I'm glad you're still looking at factional warfare plexing, but I don't like the sound of just nerfing the cloak. Isn't it still possible to set orbit at the very edge of the capture range with a little experimentation? Watch Dscan, turn away from the button a little, cloak. It'd only take a moment. Even if that was too difficult, the problem is that it's more effective to bore away an aggressor than engage them. We'll go from watching someone cloak in a plex to watching someone warp away and cloak. And noone wants to run down a timer that the other faction almost completed

Also the cloak has other valid uses besides 'hiding' that suddenly are invalid

e: although. it's bad for me to assume that just because the cloak will be invalid, that there will not be other changes. i'm sorry and am looking forwards to seeing a proper announcement soon
A Band Apart.
#187 - 2014-05-07 11:47:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
So goodbye Astero for plex farmer hunting. Why not just disable countdown for ships with cloaks/WCS fitted?

Could you make the anti-cloak range the beacon radius plus 15km at least?

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.

Snuffed Out
#188 - 2014-05-07 11:53:09 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Thanks for the feedback so far.

I just got back to work after a bit of post-fanfest death plague recovery. I'm working through a bunch of threads to catch up on what was discussed over Fanfest and the last two days.

I've now caught up on this thread and I'm glad to see how many players are excited by the concept of this ship.

Quick note: I'm not worried about the Prospect being used for afk FW farming since as of Kronos it will be impossible to cloak within capture range of a FW button.


Do you think the capture size could be made smaller? It's still far too easy to just sit 50KM off the warpin just inside capture range and **** off at will when someone enters.
The Bastion
#189 - 2014-05-07 12:04:19 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Thanks for the feedback so far.

I just got back to work after a bit of post-fanfest death plague recovery. I'm working through a bunch of threads to catch up on what was discussed over Fanfest and the last two days.

I've now caught up on this thread and I'm glad to see how many players are excited by the concept of this ship.

Quick note: I'm not worried about the Prospect being used for afk FW farming since as of Kronos it will be impossible to cloak within capture range of a FW button.


Cloaks can be used for setups such as cloaky tristans or for some VERY careful manoeuvres so as to use the accel gate while cloaked with a modest chance of landing >2000m from the beacon, as well as being used with recons.

As such, cloaks have an actual impact in pvp.

Now, warp core stabs provide very little combat tactic. Additionally, the militia factions may consider them pathetic for use only by cowards (lore only). So perhaps have the accel gate deny usage if you have stabs fitted, even offline, OR even in your cargo. This prevents WCS usage in a plex, including by means of mobile depot.

No more WCS and nothing of value is lost.
The Tuskers Co.
#190 - 2014-05-07 12:11:40 UTC
Simple fix, make the timer reset if you cloak, warp off or go outside cap range?

Stay and fight for your LPs or run and loose em?

Bloody hell, another eve blog! http://johnnytwelvebore.wordpress.com

CODE.
#191 - 2014-05-07 12:19:56 UTC
Warp stabs are the problem, not cloaks.

Cloaks can help to force a fight as well as to avoid one.

Warp stabs are just for avoiding them.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

#192 - 2014-05-07 12:26:16 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Thanks for the feedback so far.

I just got back to work after a bit of post-fanfest death plague recovery. I'm working through a bunch of threads to catch up on what was discussed over Fanfest and the last two days.

I've now caught up on this thread and I'm glad to see how many players are excited by the concept of this ship.

Quick note: I'm not worried about the Prospect being used for afk FW farming since as of Kronos it will be impossible to cloak within capture range of a FW button.


i don't like the change for several reasons. but primarily because it doesn't fix anything, it makes the situation probably only worse.

#timerRollbacks2014

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

The Big Dirty
#193 - 2014-05-07 12:27:24 UTC
Grarr Dexx wrote:

Do you think the capture size could be made smaller? It's still far too easy to just sit 50KM off the warpin just inside capture range and **** off at will when someone enters.


Well, while they're at it, why don't they add an infinite point for you to hold them down and a 100 point ECM jammer so you won't get wounded collecting your kill?
#194 - 2014-05-07 12:28:41 UTC
So you mean instead of cloaking I'll have to warp off in my stabbed frig then cloak

Yep sure does sound like a fix
The Big Dirty
#195 - 2014-05-07 12:33:15 UTC
Kenneth Skybound wrote:

Cloaks can be used for setups such as cloaky tristans or for some VERY careful manoeuvres so as to use the accel gate while cloaked with a modest chance of landing >2000m from the beacon, as well as being used with recons.

As such, cloaks have an actual impact in pvp.

Now, warp core stabs provide very little combat tactic. Additionally, the militia factions may consider them pathetic for use only by cowards (lore only). So perhaps have the accel gate deny usage if you have stabs fitted, even offline, OR even in your cargo. This prevents WCS usage in a plex, including by means of mobile depot.

No more WCS and nothing of value is lost.


If you brave pirates are worried about stabbed farmers, fit more points and take your chances like everyone else. Oh wait, I might have to compromise my fit??? No! Make them play MY game dammit!
Verge of Collapse
#196 - 2014-05-07 12:52:50 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Quick note: I'm not worried about the Prospect being used for afk FW farming since as of Kronos it will be impossible to cloak within capture range of a FW button.
Great change, looking forward to less hide and seek games during roams through Faction Warfare space.
The Bastion
#197 - 2014-05-07 13:18:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenneth Skybound
Agustus McKray wrote:
Kenneth Skybound wrote:

Cloaks can be used for setups such as cloaky tristans or for some VERY careful manoeuvres so as to use the accel gate while cloaked with a modest chance of landing >2000m from the beacon, as well as being used with recons.

As such, cloaks have an actual impact in pvp.

Now, warp core stabs provide very little combat tactic. Additionally, the militia factions may consider them pathetic for use only by cowards (lore only). So perhaps have the accel gate deny usage if you have stabs fitted, even offline, OR even in your cargo. This prevents WCS usage in a plex, including by means of mobile depot.

No more WCS and nothing of value is lost.


If you brave pirates are worried about stabbed farmers, fit more points and take your chances like everyone else. Oh wait, I might have to compromise my fit??? No! Make them play MY game dammit!


I suppose it comes down to a question of the Design and Purpose of faction warfare.

So let's see, removal of ability to cloak in a plex - intention, it'd appear is to stop people hiding from fights, yes? So the design intention of faction warfare is to facilitate fights with a highly profitable incentive while also concentrating people into discrete locations to make the discovery of said fights easier.

Removal of stabbed farming has more positive impact than just removing the "oh no, he got away" factor.

-Those who would otherwise to attempt to farm without even looking at their screen can no longer rely on the sound of combat flags to tell them to warp off.

-Those who watch their client and keep an eye out for attack when they do not wish to face it can still easily leave.

-Most PvP pilots are not looking to catch farmers, they're looking to catch players. There's a difference. A farmer is a fake signature, a ship which is never to be held. By fitting a second scram (and lets not forget those poor ships with only 2 mids), the PvP pilot is locked into fighting those ships who would choose to run. This does not facilitate PvP any more than having a swarm of NPCs in a site does.

-By removing stabs in sites, it becomes about actually attacking/defending a site, not just being in its vicinity, all the while providing the PvP opportunities that FW is meant to be for. Someone who wishes to farm in near perfect safety can go do that where the risk-reward is more balanced. Stabbed farming is not balanced.

In short:
- Removal of false targets because no one looking for PvP in the spirit of FW is fitting two scrams
- Increase in the risk to match the reward
- Protection of cloaked tactics
- More realistic match between design and reality: The PvP which pays, as opposed to the PvP which leaves you spending 2 hours trying to find that one person plexing who isn't full of stabs.

As a final note, at what point did a stabbed farmer compromise THEIR fit? Lock range and speed reduction is hardly painful to the person who doesn't intend to lock anything this side of christmas anyway. You goad about "brave pirates" when the stabbed tactic is nothing but an exploit of the system. It's no better than an invulnerable hauler or possed up fleet booster.

EDIT: One thing to remember is the actual design philosophy of FW here. To quote from the FW dev blog http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/28659 about this time 2 years ago

CCP Ytterbium wrote:

We really want to reward individual players that take risks and participate in PvP and conflicts, rather than promoting safe, passive incomes.
Medalyn Isis
#198 - 2014-05-07 13:44:01 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Thanks for the feedback so far.

I just got back to work after a bit of post-fanfest death plague recovery. I'm working through a bunch of threads to catch up on what was discussed over Fanfest and the last two days.

I've now caught up on this thread and I'm glad to see how many players are excited by the concept of this ship.

Quick note: I'm not worried about the Prospect being used for afk FW farming since as of Kronos it will be impossible to cloak within capture range of a FW button.

Hey Fozzie. Good to see you back. Is there any chance of allowing a covert ice mining ship in future, or even better allowing this one to have a bonus to ice miners?

That is the big gap still missing in allowing industry to thrive in null and low sec.
Tactical Narcotics Team
#199 - 2014-05-07 14:22:18 UTC
To the people talking about warp core stabbs. Wouldn't a simpler solution be to only allow fitting 1 per ship. This way a long point will not hold you but a scam will still be able to lock you down.
Tactical Narcotics Team
#200 - 2014-05-07 14:23:10 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Thanks for the feedback so far.

I just got back to work after a bit of post-fanfest death plague recovery. I'm working through a bunch of threads to catch up on what was discussed over Fanfest and the last two days.

I've now caught up on this thread and I'm glad to see how many players are excited by the concept of this ship.

Quick note: I'm not worried about the Prospect being used for afk FW farming since as of Kronos it will be impossible to cloak within capture range of a FW button.

Hey Fozzie. Good to see you back. Is there any chance of allowing a covert ice mining ship in future, or even better allowing this one to have a bonus to ice miners?

That is the big gap still missing in allowing industry to thrive in null and low sec.



There is no need for this as people are mining ice in null sec everyday without problems.
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