Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[Kronos] Medium Micro Jump Drives

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Medalyn Isis
#521 - 2014-05-19 17:08:16 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Thanks for the continued feedback.

We're going to remove Attack Battlecruisers from the list of ships that can use this module in the first iteration, since there are some legitimate concerns with how this would interact with ABCs in small gang combat.

Ah, that's a shame. Would not reducing the jump range to 75km help? It would be a big shame, and also make little sense to make an arbitrary exception for ABC's.
Gallente Federation
#522 - 2014-05-19 17:16:50 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Cyaron wars wrote:
Dear CCP Fozzie,

Please stop this. Stop promoting coward ways of PVP.


How is it anymore coward than kiting running links and killing pve fit newbies?




When I kite, I am facing a gang of 5-10 or even more guys. Normally a pilot that knows how to act in this case stays alive, those who make mistakes die to my guns. After those changes it'll be just "run away" tactics and nothing more. Also, stop whining about links. I did my share of solo BS roams in nullsec without even a scout alt, but times change. Average DPS of ships have increased, tanking left nearly same, number of people trying to ***** on your mail not just doubled but is increasing with geometric progression every day. So links became a slight advantage to those who still want to fly on their own and engage multiple targets. Try that one day and u will understand.
Sev3rance
#523 - 2014-05-19 17:17:41 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Thanks for the continued feedback.

We're going to remove Attack Battlecruisers from the list of ships that can use this module in the first iteration, since there are some legitimate concerns with how this would interact with ABCs in small gang combat.


I still fail to see how this mid is going to help small gang combat?
Gallente Federation
#524 - 2014-05-19 17:18:01 UTC
You can make the argument that ABC's are so specialised, being able to fit the large guns, there's no room inside the hull to integrate the MJD..

That said, I don't care the reason, I think it's great.. ABC's have a fairly big advantage, they don't need more.. Also this might open doors for some of the other lesser used CBC's.
C C P Alliance
#525 - 2014-05-19 17:18:17 UTC
To be clear, we're not ruling out expansion to Attack Battlecruisers in the future. We'll start with these classes and see how it goes from there.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

#526 - 2014-05-19 17:37:42 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
It creates good options for newer FCs to learn with and in particular MMJDs are a very valuable counterbalance to bombs for battlecruisers at the fleet level.


No it's not if the bombing run is done with any level of competency (you can't get out in time if you don't get advance warning). Will you apply to RIOT and go ruin another game already?
Almost Awesome.
#527 - 2014-05-19 17:41:10 UTC
OK, after reading some peoples thoughts, here is what i got:

Reduce the range to 50km
Reduce Spooler timer and reactivation timer
Allow them to be fit to Logi as well

Personal thoughts: Combat recons too? they need love but that re-balance will happen some other time.
Gallente Federation
#528 - 2014-05-19 17:41:20 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
To be clear, we're not ruling out expansion to Attack Battlecruisers in the future. We'll start with these classes and see how it goes from there.

See I like Fozzie.. cause we actually are getting some feedback from the devs in this thread, rather than the silence that has been going on for weeks/months in some of the other threads :(
#529 - 2014-05-19 17:44:56 UTC
As most BC weapons do not reach this far, wouldn't make a less bigger jump distance more sense on them? Like 50km? After all it is also a smaller version of the device.


I always saw the LMJD as a replacement tool, when drones started to suck this badly to kill elite frigs in missions. You would use a sniper fit, and jump out 100km, and kill everything as it runs towards you. So for me it always seemed like a fix for screwing up the drones aggro mechanics in the first place, and making most close range BS prone to scrambling frigs, what caused them to melt. As all drones were killed by them right away. More like "get into sniping position" - with most BS weapons being able to reach 100km, this is how it is often used.

So the smaller variant should be a bit like that? 50km, as most BC weapons can reach that far?





Overall i see no real use for a MMJD. Especially not with 100km range - maybe if it had 50km range. I guess you designed it mainly as a "get away card" for the DST. You could give the DST just a bonus so it can use the LMJD instead...
VYDRA RELOLDED
#530 - 2014-05-19 17:58:27 UTC
Those who are proposing 50 km range - how it makes it any different from 100 km? What can you achieve with this? 20 km is fine, 25 km is fine, 30 km is fine, 40+ km is not fine at all.
#531 - 2014-05-19 18:09:13 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
To be clear, we're not ruling out expansion to Attack Battlecruisers in the future. We'll start with these classes and see how it goes from there.


Just... don't.
#532 - 2014-05-19 18:11:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Ines Tegator
Randolph Sykes wrote:
Those who are proposing 50 km range - how it makes it any different from 100 km? What can you achieve with this? 20 km is fine, 25 km is fine, 30 km is fine, 40+ km is not fine at all.


50km is the range of a sniper fit BC. I flew with a corp that did 50km bc fleets for a while, it worked extremely well. Aside from the whole all-fights-start-at-0km-on-a-gate thing, anyway. 50km jumps would be perfect for this fleet setup.

Also, 50km jumps give easy access to 25-50km jumps as well. By jumping at an angle to the target, instead of in a straight line, you can control the final range surprisingly well (yay Pythagoras). Try it on a BS in game. This means it would be useful to medium range fits and not just long range fits. For the same reason, 75km jumps would be a reasonable compromise as well.

100km is so far out of a BC combat range that it has no combat purpose. Escape is the only possible use for the module if the stats dont change.

note to CCP: Pay attention to the two bolded words. They are imporant.
#533 - 2014-05-19 18:16:12 UTC
Sniper Smith wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
To be clear, we're not ruling out expansion to Attack Battlecruisers in the future. We'll start with these classes and see how it goes from there.

See I like Fozzie.. cause we actually are getting some feedback from the devs in this thread, rather than the silence that has been going on for weeks/months in some of the other threads :(


Unfortunately it's not feedback on the things that are actually being talked about, so it's only a small improvement.
Amarr Empire
#534 - 2014-05-19 18:17:04 UTC
Elise Randolph wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Thanks for the continued feedback.

We're going to remove Attack Battlecruisers from the list of ships that can use this module in the first iteration, since there are some legitimate concerns with how this would interact with ABCs in small gang combat.


RIP the dream of attack battlecruisers being useful for something other than sniping or AFK POS bashing.

Oh please. MMJD on ABCs would have been ridiculously overpowered. Don't even pretend to believe otherwise.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Amarr Empire
#535 - 2014-05-19 18:18:57 UTC
Sniper Smith wrote:
You can make the argument that ABC's are so specialised, being able to fit the large guns, there's no room inside the hull to integrate the MJD..

Yeah whatever, lore reasons you can leave up to the janitor to write five minutes before the final revision is committed.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Gallente Federation
#536 - 2014-05-19 18:26:35 UTC
Sniper Smith wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
To be clear, we're not ruling out expansion to Attack Battlecruisers in the future. We'll start with these classes and see how it goes from there.

See I like Fozzie.. cause we actually are getting some feedback from the devs in this thread, rather than the silence that has been going on for weeks/months in some of the other threads :(


Totally agree, he is doing a great job at rebalancing some things, some others i really dont agree, anyways he does not hide and talks to people, i agree with this change, bcs are quite useless (except for attack bcs wich i think are fine now), they have the weakness of a bss but not his advantages.

If youre going to add a mjd to small ships, then you really need to reduce the spool up time, reduce the range and increase the cooldown, and of course, make it only available to destroyers, and combat destroyers, no dictors with mjd plz.
Bionic Wolf
#537 - 2014-05-19 18:29:41 UTC
Hexatron Ormand wrote:
I guess you designed it mainly as a "get away card" for the DST.


It's a 'get away card' for both. Soloers are going to be left having to just accept they can't kill them in many cases, it's a pretty crappy choice being forced to dive on a target which often means getting blobbed and dying or having to watch it mjd away.

I mean a lot is being made of the fitting requirements for them, but you can swing that argument right around and talk about the requirements for roaming then. It's not like you've got endless amounts of mids to go for a long and short point, so do you select a disrupter which can't hold down much at all anymore or go with a scram where you not only have to be pretty welpy to catch anything but in most scenarios the target is going to start further than 9km away and more than likely just watch them warp off. And this is in an era where there is so few legit targets anyway.

I guess we're just all expected to play consensual blobs online 2014.
Amarr Empire
#538 - 2014-05-19 18:42:17 UTC
1. IMHO the MMJD upsets the scram vs disruptor balance.
2. Malcanis' law (e.g. PL Vultures)

I'ld prefer if DST would have the grid and ability to mount LMJD (and plates)
Medalyn Isis
#539 - 2014-05-19 18:46:53 UTC
Randolph Sykes wrote:
Those who are proposing 50 km range - how it makes it any different from 100 km? What can you achieve with this? 20 km is fine, 25 km is fine, 30 km is fine, 40+ km is not fine at all.

You want to still be in blaster or autocannon range after jumping or something? 75km would be fine in my opinion. 50km would also be ok but I wouldn't want to see any less. 100km is far too long range to have much useful combat purpose other than escape.
Shadow Cartel
#540 - 2014-05-19 18:50:17 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
To be clear, we're not ruling out expansion to Attack Battlecruisers in the future. We'll start with these classes and see how it goes from there.


are you ruling out nerfing ABCs
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