Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Kronos] Freighters and Jump Freighters Rebalance [Updated]

First post First post First post
Author
#1961 - 2014-05-21 17:06:28 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4606434#post4606434

Buzz Dura wrote:
CCP if youwant to choose between several setup to carry more load, more tank or more speed etc
why don't you forget about rigs and add low slots instead. Rigs are expensive refit !



I should gamble today !!
#1962 - 2014-05-21 17:09:02 UTC
Warr Akini wrote:
Celly S wrote:
They are doing it to make most of them more vulnerable (depending on how the pilot fits the ship) and create moar pew-pew and even stated as much in the OP when they said (about JFs) "and their near complete safety when used optimally"


Again, "vulnerable" is a relative term. Your "best" downside is 3% loss of EHP and your worst is only 20%, where you stand to gain 75% in EHP. As mentioned above, a 675K EHP ship in highsec is just about ludicrous.



o/

I did allow for the pilot's fitting preferences, however, if we look at your numbers, based on the percentages you mentioned, is it not correct to expect the pilot who tanks their ship more to have to make more trips to convey the same amount of product?, doesn't this mean more fuel, more time, and more exposure?, if tanked less, they are more vulnerable and likely have more cargo onboard.

Rig costs + fuel costs + multiple trips to accomplish the same thing (when tanked) equates to more work, more costs, higher prices, and with the back-end being nerfed as well in terms of industry, does that not also mean more time mining, less return on processing (not everyone has max skills and an implant, ect ect) more danger/exposure for them and in return higher prices that are passed on to the freighter pilot?
Of course the guy who fits for cargo amount loses ehp and becomes an easier target, even if it is only 3% less, it's still less.

Don't get me wrong, I see and understand your point, I'm just looking at the entire picture...

ty for the reply.
o/
Celly Smunt



Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.

Pandemic Legion
#1963 - 2014-05-21 17:09:23 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Aerissa Nolen wrote:
Can CCP confirm that it is intentional for Providence and Fenrir to now have the same base cargo capacity?


This is intentional, yes.


How did you guys arrive at the numbers for the shield and armor increases?

They seem a fair bit high to me.


But at least you said "fair". And come on, shield and armor ain't saving you when the bad men come. Should you be chosen, chances are you've been scanned and were deemed both worthwhile and killable. The best tank is to make yourself the lesser of their possible targets through what you choose to carry onboard. The fit and tank is secondary.
Amarr Empire
#1964 - 2014-05-21 17:09:38 UTC
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Say bye-bye small null corps.

I'll check back in a couple of years to see if CCP has stopped doing boneheaded things.


We will be fine.
Ty for worrying though

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85

Pandemic Legion
#1965 - 2014-05-21 17:10:50 UTC
Dirk MacGirk wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Aerissa Nolen wrote:
Can CCP confirm that it is intentional for Providence and Fenrir to now have the same base cargo capacity?


This is intentional, yes.


How did you guys arrive at the numbers for the shield and armor increases?

They seem a fair bit high to me.


But at least you said "fair". And come on, shield and armor ain't saving you when the bad men come. Should you be chosen, chances are you've been scanned and were deemed both worthwhile and killable. The best tank is to make yourself the lesser of their possible targets through what you choose to carry onboard. The fit and actual tank is secondary.

C C P Alliance
#1966 - 2014-05-21 17:12:30 UTC
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
Love the new update, but one question, when will damage controls become passive mods?


That indeed is a good question.
Amarr Empire
#1967 - 2014-05-21 17:13:26 UTC
So what, freighters and JF got more base tank. That's probably going to lead to an increase in ganking if anything as pilots get cocky and take even less care with their cargo.

It's going to impart a sense of invincibility that won't in reality exist.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

#1968 - 2014-05-21 17:13:28 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
Love the new update, but one question, when will damage controls become passive mods?


That indeed is a good question.

only if you're going to answer it.
Goonswarm Federation
#1969 - 2014-05-21 17:15:12 UTC
Celly S wrote:
Is it not correct to expect the pilot who tanks their ship more to have to make more trips to convey the same amount of product?, doesn't this mean more fuel, more time, and more exposure?, if tanked less, they are more vulnerable and likely have more cargo onboard.


Trimming your quote down a bit.

From the business perspective, you're absolutely right - less cargo means more time spent, more "labor cost" (of course equates to zero for many), but using the term exposure indicates a misunderstanding of how ganking actually works. In order to carry out a successful gank of this magnitude, you have to pass a certain threshold of damage and bring that damage to bear generally in one sitting, especially when it comes to jump freighters. So, a 3% drop in your target's EHP means you have to bring the same amount of guys more or less, whereas a 75% boost in your target's EHP means you have to bring nearly double the amount of guys you brought for the same target pre-patch. It doesn't matter how exposed said target is - the only really relevant thing in the end is its EHP on the ganking side.
C C P Alliance
#1970 - 2014-05-21 17:16:11 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
Love the new update, but one question, when will damage controls become passive mods?


That indeed is a good question.


The answer to this question is "not in Kronos, but possibly at a later date".

Either way that's a discussion for another thread since these ships cannot fit Damage Controls.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Amarr Empire
#1971 - 2014-05-21 17:17:53 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
To help address the lack of interesting options for Jump Freighters, we are planning to introduce a set of jump fuel conservation modules in the Crius release in July. These modules will not be available in Kronos.

Will these modules be made exclusive to jump freighters or will other caps be able to use them?

Because if it's the latter you're basically just giving capital ships reduced fuel consumption in certain circumstances.
Of course that could be mitigated by making them really big (e.g. 4,000 m3 like other capital mods) so you can't refit them without sacrificing huge portions of your fleet hangar.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

#1972 - 2014-05-21 17:18:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Dirk MacGirk wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Aerissa Nolen wrote:
Can CCP confirm that it is intentional for Providence and Fenrir to now have the same base cargo capacity?


This is intentional, yes.


How did you guys arrive at the numbers for the shield and armor increases?

They seem a fair bit high to me.


But at least you said "fair". And come on, shield and armor ain't saving you when the bad men come. Should you be chosen, chances are you've been scanned and were deemed both worthwhile and killable. The best tank is to make yourself the lesser of their possible targets through what you choose to carry onboard. The fit and tank is secondary.


ur logic works for lone buffer freighters.

but the provi and obe have fleet options the charon and fenrir dnt thanks to the combination of low slots and tank shift to shield and armour.

Armour freighter, resistance plating, damnation, guardians

O_o

as much as i love how this promotes fleeting and escorting. the shield freighters lack an equivalent. [edit] And it means that freighters sacrifice less when fitting for full cargo.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Goonswarm Federation
#1973 - 2014-05-21 17:20:08 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
To help address the lack of interesting options for Jump Freighters, we are planning to introduce a set of jump fuel conservation modules in the Crius release in July. These modules will not be available in Kronos.

Will these modules be made exclusive to jump freighters or will other caps be able to use them?

Because if it's the latter you're basically just giving capital ships reduced fuel consumption when they travel in groups.
Of course that could be mitigated by making them really big (e.g. 4,000 m3 like other capital mods) so you can't refit them without sacrificing huge portions of your fleet hangar.

This is a really interesting way to "balance" fuel consumption low-slot modules against other caps/blackops BS. Hopefully we get a feedback thread for these; there's a couple of potential issues I would like to bring up and/or be pre-empted on, but this is not the thread for it.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

#1974 - 2014-05-21 17:20:26 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:


So what you're saying is "I made **** up, I haven't even seen it first hand AND I can't use and apply basic logic", duly noted.


No, what I'm saying is that based on prior evidence I've extrapolated the data.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1975 - 2014-05-21 17:20:32 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
Love the new update, but one question, when will damage controls become passive mods?


That indeed is a good question.


The answer to this question is "not in Kronos, but possibly at a later date".

Either way that's a discussion for another thread since these ships cannot fit Damage Controls.


Don't you think you went a little bit overboard in terms of raw EHP? - there's a very large gap between the obelisk and providence compared to the charon and fenrir - where the fenrir will be beyond the tank of a TQ obelisk according to this: http://eve.beyondreality.se/pics/Kronos/FreighterCargoTank.png

C C P Alliance
#1976 - 2014-05-21 17:21:41 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
To help address the lack of interesting options for Jump Freighters, we are planning to introduce a set of jump fuel conservation modules in the Crius release in July. These modules will not be available in Kronos.

Will these modules be made exclusive to jump freighters or will other caps be able to use them?

Because if it's the latter you're basically just giving capital ships reduced fuel consumption in certain circumstances.
Of course that could be mitigated by making them really big (e.g. 4,000 m3 like other capital mods) so you can't refit them without sacrificing huge portions of your fleet hangar.


More information on these modules will be given at a later point.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Amarr Empire
#1977 - 2014-05-21 17:23:28 UTC
That's fair.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

#1978 - 2014-05-21 17:25:36 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
Love the new update, but one question, when will damage controls become passive mods?


That indeed is a good question.


The answer to this question is "not in Kronos, but possibly at a later date".

Either way that's a discussion for another thread since these ships cannot fit Damage Controls.


i hope not, damage controls are already a very powerful module, i don't think clicking once per session change in exchange for such a powerful module is much to ask.

nor do i want to see it nerfed because people are lazy.
Goonswarm Federation
#1979 - 2014-05-21 17:25:45 UTC  |  Edited by: addelee
CCP Fozzie wrote:

To help address the lack of interesting options for Jump Freighters, we are planning to introduce a set of jump fuel conservation modules in the Crius release in July. These modules will not be available in Kronos.


I like the overall changes but I have a real issue with the above. I think it's more the way that Fozzy is selling this rather than the change itself as there will only be 1 option in reality.

The term "interesting option" isn't interesting when you cross this over with the other changes.

JF's are having their fuel usage increase by 50% in kronos. Now unless these modules actually save more than the 50% then every single JF pilot will be running with them. This restricts the "options" to 1.

However, this presents another problem as if the modules can achieve better than 50% reduction, what's the point in the other change to fuel.

I'm not saying the changes are wrong, but if I were CCP, I'd maybe step back and actually think about what they're attempting to achieve rather than throwing out some dubious idea's.

Edit:

I guess you could go for fuel price vs cargo space. That's 2 options I guess but it just feels maybe the module has come about from the backlash on the fuel increase.

Can we also assume that the jump fuel conservation modules are usable on all ships fitted with a jump drive? (i.e. travel fit carriers)
#1980 - 2014-05-21 17:25:52 UTC
on JF tank bonuses i'm glad you listened on removing off racial HP bonuses.... a little dissapointed you left the hull HP bonus on them all though.. how about something like this?

Gal
10% hull HP bonus

Cal
10% shield HP bonus

Amarr
10% armour HP bonus

Minmatar
5% shield HP and 5% armour HP bonus

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Forum Jump