Wormholes

 
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[Hyperion Feedback Thread] Second Static for C4s

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VYDRA RELOLDED
#261 - 2014-08-13 16:27:18 UTC
The content you are asking for is called "fronteir barracks in 100mn ham tengu"
Pros:
- 100km+ spawn distances are not an issue (2k + km/s)
- Nice payout with 30 mins/barrack (600 dps with faction / 700 rage)
- Can be speedtanked (Personally can complete a barrack in active 100mn tengu without even touching shield booster)
- Safe as hi-sec l4 (guests need at least a 2 rapiers to catch you)
Cons: Barracks is an anom. you requested something other than anom.
C C P Alliance
#262 - 2014-08-13 17:53:21 UTC
Hey everyone.

I want to make it clear that we are interested in making adjustments to wormhole PVE in the future, and we're working with the CSM to do some planning for that now but there won't be any major PVE changes in Hyperion. Those still need more time.

I definitely do believe that there are more factors to a decision about where to live than the amount of money that can be farmed, and the addition of the second static should help reinforce some of these other factors.

You guys will be noticing second statics appearing on SISI now. Of course since this is a test server things might change before release, but we have no current plans to change which systems get which static again before they hit TQ. So as always plan using SISI information at your own risk, but in this case it's a relatively small risk.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Hole Control
#263 - 2014-08-13 18:11:37 UTC  |  Edited by: calaretu
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone.

I want to make it clear that we are interested in making adjustments to wormhole PVE in the future, and we're working with the CSM to do some planning for that now but there won't be any major PVE changes in Hyperion. Those still need more time.

I definitely do believe that there are more factors to a decision about where to live than the amount of money that can be farmed, and the addition of the second static should help reinforce some of these other factors.

You guys will be noticing second statics appearing on SISI now. Of course since this is a test server things might change before release, but we have no current plans to change which systems get which static again before they hit TQ. So as always plan using SISI information at your own risk, but in this case it's a relatively small risk.


Whats up with the q413?
#264 - 2014-08-13 18:14:32 UTC
Ktersida Nyn'Amanyn wrote:
I'm not sure but i scanned some minutes ago with my alt in a c4 on sissy and i've two statics in this c4. normaly it's a c4-c1 and now there is a c247 to a c3. Maybe the new statics are online on sissy now.


What constellation is that in, if I may ask?
Caldari State
#265 - 2014-08-13 21:30:39 UTC
Fish McCragg wrote:
Ktersida Nyn'Amanyn wrote:
I'm not sure but i scanned some minutes ago with my alt in a c4 on sissy and i've two statics in this c4. normaly it's a c4-c1 and now there is a c247 to a c3. Maybe the new statics are online on sissy now.


What constellation is that in, if I may ask?


already taking notes, good, good
Illusion of Solitude
#266 - 2014-08-13 21:39:15 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone.

I want to make it clear that we are interested in making adjustments to wormhole PVE in the future, and we're working with the CSM to do some planning for that now but there won't be any major PVE changes in Hyperion. Those still need more time.

I definitely do believe that there are more factors to a decision about where to live than the amount of money that can be farmed, and the addition of the second static should help reinforce some of these other factors.

You guys will be noticing second statics appearing on SISI now. Of course since this is a test server things might change before release, but we have no current plans to change which systems get which static again before they hit TQ. So as always plan using SISI information at your own risk, but in this case it's a relatively small risk.



Agreed, when many are making suggestions regarding income, it is not so one can bear up and turn on the isk tap.

Mainly residents of lower class holes are concerned, that the realities are such that they have worries about the viability of fuelling their pos, and covering their costs, and their members can cover replacements, without having to go out to Kspace to finance it or top it up.

The decision to stay in a wormhole is mainly based on the desire to be here, the income is just the mechanism to make it possible.

Hopefully, your changes ensure this is the case as the ability to totally isolate yourself is now even less possible.
Most who wish to live here are not here just for the Isk, there are some, and they will probably get fewer.
The more vibrant the space the more will be here because it is the life they choose and enjoy.

If you can balance the PVE to allow all to participate in some small way, even during quiet times, when few are on, this would not harm that and allow more life at all times.

Most of us would not wish to see people flooding in just for isk.

But even they have their role as targets of opportunity too. Being drawn in By higher reward, for higher risk, is perfectly fine. They may grow to love it here as well.

All your changes, with the one exception of which you are aware and considering, balance that nicely. And ensure that pure bearing is less viable whilst keeping vitality improving.

Hopefully your PVE changes will Too.
They are equally important.
Hopefully a little support for C4 occupants, even temporary interim assistance, might be possible to encourage them to persist in the meantime.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

#267 - 2014-08-13 21:59:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Kp Amelia
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone.

I want to make it clear that we are interested in making adjustments to wormhole PVE in the future, and we're working with the CSM to do some planning for that now but there won't be any major PVE changes in Hyperion. Those still need more time.

I definitely do believe that there are more factors to a decision about where to live than the amount of money that can be farmed, and the addition of the second static should help reinforce some of these other factors.

You guys will be noticing second statics appearing on SISI now. Of course since this is a test server things might change before release, but we have no current plans to change which systems get which static again before they hit TQ. So as always plan using SISI information at your own risk, but in this case it's a relatively small risk.


Well while we will be looking at how things turn out after the patch, I feel that this may be driving out of our current C4. We will have to look for alternative ways of making isk that are actually reliable and sustainable. It is just not sustainable to make isk in a wormehole when one lost fleet is the equivalent of over a week of solid farming.

Hopefully the large Pvp wormhole entities will gain from this patch as CCP is intending and that not to many people move out due to unsustainable life. I will be very interested to see the activity graphs a couple months from now and see if CCP got what the wanted from this patch.

Good luck to other C4 owners, hopefully this patch does not effect you as negatively as it we are expecting it to us.

Edit: Fozzie I would appreciate it if you didn't constantly emphasis the CSM when addressing questions regarding patches and such. As while I respect the fact that it is them who provide gamer feedback to you, it is you as CCP who make the decisions regarding final changes not CSM, and it is on you as CCP that accountability for both concerns as well as praise should fall.
Solyaris Chtonium
#268 - 2014-08-14 00:19:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiger Tesla
I am somewhat split on whether or not the static will be a benefit or a hinderence. I just discovered on SISI that my C4/C3 home will be gaining a C4 static. Ignoring the obvious implications of the other wanderings and the frequency of wanderings, this means my wormhole is connected to at least 3 more systems than before the patch.

The hole now has the ability to roll into any space in eve, any K-space, by way of the C3, and any W-space by way of the C4 static's statics. This makes it a very unique system, and I look forward to exploring the possibilities with my group. There is a big BUT though.

It requires more pilots to take advantage of. One of the main problems in wormholes is the lack of Isk making opportunities for the 'lone' pilot times. While it doesn't happen often in my group, many other C4s will have difficulty practicing any sort of hole control. Hole control, by way of scouts or closing holes, requires even more pilots/alts than it did before, which indicates that CCP would rather players not practice hole control the way that we do today, or if we are supposed to adapt our current methods that we should be making less Isk than we currently are. Given the rediculously slow respawn rate of sites, mostly due to general wormhole inactivity and black holes gathering sites (hopefully that will change) , c4 wormholers make very little Isk in their home unless they are very small groups, the very groups that will be forced out by these changes.

While I will obviously adapt and lead my corp within wormholes regardless of the changes, I worry about the staying power of my members due to lack of income. Even if we have to run sites in PvP fleets, the tactical disadvantage of having your fleet visable running a site is great enough that if a group does engage you, it is because they already know they will win. In a game of rock paper scissors like eve, it's an easy win if you already know what your opponent has.
Caldari State
#269 - 2014-08-14 00:47:50 UTC
Just a quick thought, but what about trying to adapt to inevitable danger if you're unable to seal yourself off from it? Design a PVE setup where you can sit on a mobile MJD, scouts on holes and just push the button if danger jumps in. Poof, you're out of sleeper point range and able to warp off.
Gallente Federation
#270 - 2014-08-14 04:16:33 UTC
Fish McCragg wrote:
Ktersida Nyn'Amanyn wrote:
I'm not sure but i scanned some minutes ago with my alt in a c4 on sissy and i've two statics in this c4. normaly it's a c4-c1 and now there is a c247 to a c3. Maybe the new statics are online on sissy now.


What constellation is that in, if I may ask?


It's in constellation D-C00172 and Region D-R00018.
#271 - 2014-08-14 04:53:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Fish McCragg
Ktersida Nyn'Amanyn wrote:


It's in constellation D-C00172 and Region D-R00018.


So far it looks like in Region 18, constellation 172 got C3s, 169 got C4s, and 168 got C5s.

Precluding C1 added statics (since all of region 18 is P060 already), there should be two pairs of constellations with the same new statics. In order to successfully predict/chart the new statics, we'll need at least 2 more data points from region 18, and with some luck, 2-4 data points from another region. More would of course be better.

More data, people! Time's a-tickin'
Amarr Empire
#272 - 2014-08-14 06:53:15 UTC
Well, our C4/C2 now has an additional C5 static, so we're moving everything out.
Gallente Federation
#273 - 2014-08-14 07:13:16 UTC
Fish McCragg wrote:
Pavel Sohaj wrote:


Throwing out ideas :D idk how to put more isk to C4. More anomalies? BEtter blue payouts?


Escalations. Even just one wave would go a long way.


Yup. Tho add time so the isk / hour payout is not really changed.

Kuya Third wrote:
Pavel Sohaj wrote:

Add C5+ gases to C4 systems RollLol


Nice "pvp" content. Is someone really going after ventures?


You´d be surprised :D
Gallente Federation
#274 - 2014-08-14 07:15:39 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
I would like to add a suggestion, once one rebalances the C1 to C4 wormholes this might be a good idea. See below

There is an issue in c3 and More particularly C4 wormholes that small corporations ALL have times of day when there may only be a single player on.

This means for that player, after scanning out everything possible, his only choices are to wait for others, or escape to HIsec or null for their income opportunities.

The suggestion is the spawning of signature sites (not anomalies) suitable for a skilled single player in additional to the existing ones, not vast numbers, but enough to give some interest and income in those off times.

Keep them able to be completed reasonably quickly with a little more emphasis on blue loot, as the likelihood of being disturbed is high.

This will encourage the continuous working of wormholes through most of the day, rather than just peak times.
And encourage players to live and work wormhole space rather than having to have a part time job in Kspace. Big smile


SIngle player can run sites up to C5. Thing is, you need 2nd char to watch your back always. OR risk being boomed. Although the idea of small C3/C4 anomalies, that are quick, provide reasonable amount of coin for the time / risk involved is good.
Illusion of Solitude
#275 - 2014-08-14 10:43:20 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Pavel Sohaj wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
I would like to add a suggestion, once one rebalances the C1 to C4 wormholes this might be a good idea. See below

There is an issue in c3 and More particularly C4 wormholes that small corporations ALL have times of day when there may only be a single player on.

This means for that player, after scanning out everything possible, his only choices are to wait for others, or escape to HIsec or null for their income opportunities.

The suggestion is the spawning of signature sites (not anomalies) suitable for a skilled single player in additional to the existing ones, not vast numbers, but enough to give some interest and income in those off times.

Keep them able to be completed reasonably quickly with a little more emphasis on blue loot, as the likelihood of being disturbed is high.

This will encourage the continuous working of wormholes through most of the day, rather than just peak times.
And encourage players to live and work wormhole space rather than having to have a part time job in Kspace. Big smile


SIngle player can run sites up to C5. Thing is, you need 2nd char to watch your back always. OR risk being boomed. Although the idea of small C3/C4 anomalies, that are quick, provide reasonable amount of coin for the time / risk involved is good.



Yes we are all guilty of saying "solo" when we really mean having 2 or 3 alts, to cover security or for The DPS they bring.
It can give a very wrong impression, which is destructive to the goal of making it possible for a single person, unassisted, to earn anything at all, in REASONABLE safety, without leaving the hole, during slacktimes.

There is ALWAYS risk in wormholes, rewards for true single player, practical, activity should reflect that, otherwise, they will jump to HS for a bit.
And that is not good for vitality in wormholes.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Gallente Federation
#276 - 2014-08-14 10:54:47 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Pavel Sohaj wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
I would like to add a suggestion, once one rebalances the C1 to C4 wormholes this might be a good idea. See below

There is an issue in c3 and More particularly C4 wormholes that small corporations ALL have times of day when there may only be a single player on.

This means for that player, after scanning out everything possible, his only choices are to wait for others, or escape to HIsec or null for their income opportunities.

The suggestion is the spawning of signature sites (not anomalies) suitable for a skilled single player in additional to the existing ones, not vast numbers, but enough to give some interest and income in those off times.

Keep them able to be completed reasonably quickly with a little more emphasis on blue loot, as the likelihood of being disturbed is high.

This will encourage the continuous working of wormholes through most of the day, rather than just peak times.
And encourage players to live and work wormhole space rather than having to have a part time job in Kspace. Big smile


SIngle player can run sites up to C5. Thing is, you need 2nd char to watch your back always. OR risk being boomed. Although the idea of small C3/C4 anomalies, that are quick, provide reasonable amount of coin for the time / risk involved is good.



Yes we are all guilty of saying "solo" when we really mean having 2 or 3 alts, to cover security or for The DPS they bring.
It can give a very wrong impression, which is destructive to the goal of making it possible for a single person, unassisted, to earn anything at all, in REASONABLE safety, without leaving the hole, during slacktimes.

There is ALWAYS risk in wormholes, rewards for true single player, practical, activity should reflect that, otherwise, they will jump to HS for a bit.
And that is not good for vitality in wormholes.


thought so on the alts. Also agree on omnipresent danger. You never know.
Pro TIps
#277 - 2014-08-14 11:38:20 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I want to make it clear that we are interested in making adjustments to wormhole PVE in the future, and we're working with the CSM to do some planning for that now but there won't be any major PVE changes in Hyperion. Those still need more time.

I definitely do believe that there are more factors to a decision about where to live than the amount of money that can be farmed, and the addition of the second static should help reinforce some of these other factors.

You don't seem to care that these things are linked.

C4-space is a very good place for a corp to grow and gain experience before they branch out (or move up) to less-isolated areas. You are eliminating that unique space and growth-opportunity. My corp may as well rent in nullsec; it will certainly be cheaper than losing ships and time to increased PVP gang traffic. The only reason we think we have the needed experience to move out to null, though, is the several months we spent on the C4 learning curve.
#278 - 2014-08-14 12:26:42 UTC
Nancy Wayke wrote:
Well, our C4/C2 now has an additional C5 static, so we're moving everything out.


Yup being able to farm C320 gas from all those empty C5's is horribad for sure..
Gallente Federation
#279 - 2014-08-14 12:33:19 UTC
Ya Huei wrote:
Nancy Wayke wrote:
Well, our C4/C2 now has an additional C5 static, so we're moving everything out.


Yup being able to farm C320 gas from all those empty C5's is horribad for sure..


You need to roll quite a few to find it. Then clear it.
Caldari State
#280 - 2014-08-14 12:33:23 UTC
Pro TIps wrote:

C4-space is a very good place for a corp to grow and gain experience before they branch out (or move up) to less-isolated areas. You are eliminating that unique space and growth-opportunity. My corp may as well rent in nullsec; it will certainly be cheaper than losing ships and time to increased PVP gang traffic. The only reason we think we have the needed experience to move out to null, though, is the several months we spent on the C4 learning curve.

Legit question: why is a C3 not viable for you? I've always thought the income was comparable.
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