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[Aegis] Missile balance package

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C C P Alliance
#1 - 2015-06-19 12:06:18 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Heyo

It's getting pretty close to release and I have a lot of balance changes we need to talk about!

This thread is for discussion on a package of missile changes that we are pretty excited to see the results of. So what's in this package?

  • Missile Guidance Enhancers - Low slot modules that increase missile explosion velocity, lower explosion radius, increase missile flight time and increase missile velocity
  • Missile Guidance Computers - Mid slot modules that increase missile explosion velocity, lower explosion radius, increase missile flight time and increase missile velocity. These modules can use Missile Precision and Missile Range scripts and can of course be overheated.
  • Heavy Missile Damage is being increased by 5% for all Heavy Missile Types
  • Torpedo volume is being reduced by half, meaning you can fit twice as many Torpedo's in all launchers (except polarized, which have had their capacity reduced) as before.

  • Some specifics on the new modules:

    We are starting with 3 types in each group. Tech I, Compact (lower fitting requirements), and Tech II. Faction variations would certainly be on the table for later releases when we are happy with the tuning of numbers on these first mods.

    The numbers:

    Missile Guidance Enhancer I
    10 CPU, 1 PG, 4.5% bonus to explosion velocity, explosion radius and 5% bonus to missile velocity and missile flight time
    Pro-Nav Compact Missile Guidance Enhancer
    8 CPU, 1 PG, 5% bonus to explosion velocity, explosion radius and 5.5% bonus to missile velocity and missile flight time
    Missile Guidance Enhancer II
    15 CPU, 1 PG, 5.5% bonus to explosion velocity, explosion radius and 6% bonus to missile velocity and missile flight time

    Missile Guidance Computer I
    28 CPU, 1 PG, 5% bonus to explosion velocity, explosion radius and 4% bonus to missile velocity and missile flight time
    Astro-Inertial Compact Missile Guidance Computer
    24 CPU, 1 PG 6% bonus to explosion velocity, explosion radius and 4.5% bonus to missile velocity and missile flight time
    Missile Guidance Computer II
    35 CPU, 1 PG 7.5% bonus to explosion velocity, explosion radius and 5.5% bonus to missile velocity and missile flight time

    These are set very close to the corresponding turret module numbers and may need adjustment after deployment.

    We would have liked to include disruption modules to go along with these enhancement modules but there are actually some technical hurdles we need to figure out and we didn't want to keep holding back on adding these in the mean time. Look for those sometime in the future.

    Let us know what you think!

    @ccp_rise

    Minmatar Republic
    #2 - 2015-06-19 12:08:14 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
    CPU feels high for missile boats which are CPU limited - especially given the cost of a PWNAGE by compare.


    Are these stacking penalised?
    Are rigs now stacking penalised? (I believe they are not atm)
    What wins the priority battle give them above?


    Have you considered speeding up all missile precision variants (with a corresponding flight time decrease to maintain range) in order to have a better chance of making contact with the expected target (which is obviously small and fast relative to the launcher hull size)


    Are you going to look at the phoon(s)? They the one hull class I'm worried about abusing these mods. It'll be a murder machine of little compare.
    #3 - 2015-06-19 12:10:15 UTC
    Now we need only some effective EWAR that works on missiles.
    #4 - 2015-06-19 12:12:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
    I have to agree, CPU needs are kind of high considering launchers have high CPU needs as well as launcher rigging uses lots of CPU as well.

    Edit: Contrary to my past statements, you could also use this as an opportunity to remove the Caldari kinetic damage lock.

    If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

    Caldari State
    #5 - 2015-06-19 12:13:26 UTC
    Any thoughts on the effectiveness of SmartBombs on missiles and the ability to firewall them?
    Anonymous..
    #6 - 2015-06-19 12:25:50 UTC
    Quote:
    Heavy Missile Damage is being increased by 5% for all Heavy Missile Types


    Does this include Heavy Assault Missile? I'm not sure about it.
    Pandemic Legion
    #7 - 2015-06-19 12:30:17 UTC
    are you going to nerf the base range/application of any missiles to compensate?

    specifically i think nerfing light and cruise missiles by 1 TE would be good, cruise because you're gonna have enough slots on a battleship to get it back and beyond what it is already (which is pretty good) and lights because lights are already very strong and adding more options for them might push them to oppressive on destroyers and below
    Minmatar Republic
    #8 - 2015-06-19 12:33:28 UTC
    Capqu wrote:
    are you going to nerf the base range/application of any missiles to compensate?

    specifically i think nerfing light and cruise missiles by 1 TE would be good, cruise because you're gonna have enough slots on a battleship to get it back and beyond what it is already (which is pretty good) and lights because lights are already very strong and adding more options for them might push them to oppressive on destroyers and below


    I don't think any small ships are going to be using these tbh, they have scant enough low slots as it is and the CPU in the mid modules is pretty damned oppressive.

    If that is reduced, might become an issue.
    Triumvirate.
    #9 - 2015-06-19 12:46:21 UTC
    Capqu wrote:
    are you going to nerf the base range/application of any missiles to compensate?

    specifically i think nerfing light and cruise missiles by 1 TE would be good, cruise because you're gonna have enough slots on a battleship to get it back and beyond what it is already (which is pretty good) and lights because lights are already very strong and adding more options for them might push them to oppressive on destroyers and below


    your idea is bad. missile boats are in a bad enough state as it is.
    C C P Alliance
    #10 - 2015-06-19 12:47:08 UTC
    Jassmin Joy wrote:
    Any thoughts on the effectiveness of SmartBombs on missiles and the ability to firewall them?

    Yes, but we haven't had a chance to post that thread quite yet.

    Game Designer | Team Five-0

    Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
    Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

    #11 - 2015-06-19 12:47:19 UTC
    posting in ccp rise thread he is my faverite.
    Pandemic Legion
    #12 - 2015-06-19 12:48:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Capqu
    afkalt wrote:
    Capqu wrote:
    are you going to nerf the base range/application of any missiles to compensate?

    specifically i think nerfing light and cruise missiles by 1 TE would be good, cruise because you're gonna have enough slots on a battleship to get it back and beyond what it is already (which is pretty good) and lights because lights are already very strong and adding more options for them might push them to oppressive on destroyers and below


    I don't think any small ships are going to be using these tbh, they have scant enough low slots as it is and the CPU in the mid modules is pretty damned oppressive.

    If that is reduced, might become an issue.

    [Flycatcher, aa]

    Ballistic Control System II

    5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
    Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
    Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
    Medium Shield Extender II
    Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script

    Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
    Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
    Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
    Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
    Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
    Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
    Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
    [Empty High slot]

    Small Ancillary Current Router I
    Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst II

    122~ km range
    220 dps
    60 mil
    Brute Force Solutions
    #13 - 2015-06-19 12:50:54 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
    Ground floor!

    Looks like this will help some... fingers crossed HAMs are a viable weapon system with this.

    I still think all missiles could do with their velocity doubled and flight time halved, like the mordu ships' bonus.

    How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

    Gallente Federation
    #14 - 2015-06-19 12:51:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Dora Adant
    what about ewar? are you going to add those to?

    seems like a fairly important point, don't implement this without also implementing the counter

    next thing you know we're getting a missile dominated alliance tournament...
    Gallente Federation
    #15 - 2015-06-19 12:56:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Harkin Issier
    CCP did you mix up Computers and Enhancers?

    Tracking Computers are weaker than Tracking Enhancers, but they can be scripted to perform better than the Enhancer in the scripted trait's effect.

    Currently you've listed the MGC to be FAR more effective (31% more) than the MGE, while retaining the ability to be scripted.

    Missile Guidance Enhancer II
    15 CPU, 1 PG, 6.5% bonus to explosion velocity, explosion radius, missile velocity and missile flight time

    Missile Guidance Computer II
    35 CPU, 1 PG 9.5% bonus to explosion velocity, explosion radius, missile velocity and missile flight time

    Unless you're going to let the Enhancers be scripted?
    Pandemic Legion
    #16 - 2015-06-19 13:02:20 UTC
    [Talwar, tfi]

    Type-D Attenuation Signal Augmentation
    Damage Control II
    Ballistic Control System II

    5MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
    Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
    F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Targeting Range Script

    Arbalest Compact Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile
    Arbalest Compact Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile
    Arbalest Compact Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile
    Arbalest Compact Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile
    Arbalest Compact Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile
    Arbalest Compact Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile
    Arbalest Compact Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile

    Small Ionic Field Projector II
    Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
    Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I

    110~km range
    150 dps
    10 mil
    #17 - 2015-06-19 13:02:23 UTC
    Harkin Issier wrote:
    CCP did you mix up Computers and Enhancers?

    Tracking Computers are weaker than Tracking Enhancers, but they can be scripted to perform better than the Enhancer in the scripted trait's effect.

    Currently you've listed the MGC to be FAR more effective (31% more) than the MGE, while retaining the ability to be scripted.

    Missile Guidance Enhancer II
    15 CPU, 1 PG, 6.5% bonus to explosion velocity, explosion radius, missile velocity and missile flight time

    Missile Guidance Computer II
    35 CPU, 1 PG 9.5% bonus to explosion velocity, explosion radius, missile velocity and missile flight time

    Unless you're going to let the Enhancers be scripted?


    or perhaps he listed the max values with scripts loaded.
    Pandemic Legion
    #18 - 2015-06-19 13:03:36 UTC
    Saeka Tyr wrote:
    Capqu wrote:
    are you going to nerf the base range/application of any missiles to compensate?

    specifically i think nerfing light and cruise missiles by 1 TE would be good, cruise because you're gonna have enough slots on a battleship to get it back and beyond what it is already (which is pretty good) and lights because lights are already very strong and adding more options for them might push them to oppressive on destroyers and below


    your idea is bad. missile boats are in a bad enough state as it is.


    light missiles in a bad state? LOL
    #19 - 2015-06-19 13:04:40 UTC
    Capqu wrote:
    [Talwar, tfi]

    Type-D Attenuation Signal Augmentation
    Damage Control II
    Ballistic Control System II

    5MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
    Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
    F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Targeting Range Script

    Arbalest Compact Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile
    Arbalest Compact Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile
    Arbalest Compact Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile
    Arbalest Compact Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile
    Arbalest Compact Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile
    Arbalest Compact Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile
    Arbalest Compact Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile

    Small Ionic Field Projector II
    Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
    Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I

    110~km range
    150 dps
    10 mil


    That's damn spiffy for a T1 Ship. A bay of ammo will cost almost as much as the rest of the ship.
    Triumvirate.
    #20 - 2015-06-19 13:05:28 UTC
    What about kinetic locked ships, and the fact that missile application is still much worse than turret or sentry due to missile travel mechanics?
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