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[November] Rorqual Changes

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C C P Alliance
#1 - 2016-10-04 13:39:11 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Hey folks! This will be the specific feedback thread for the Rorqual revamp coming this November!
You can check out the dev blog here for the whole context.
Other feedback threads are available for the Porpoise, Orca, and the mining foreman gameplay as a whole.

Here's the current plan!

RORQUAL
Capital Industrial Ship bonuses (per skill level):

5% bonus to Mining Foreman Burst Strength and Duration
3% bonus to Shield Command Burst Strength and Duration
5% reduction in fuel consumption for Industrial Core
10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield
-10% reduction in drone ice harvesting cycle time
Role bonus:
400% bonus to Remote Shield Booster optimal range
90% reduction to effective distance traveled for jump fatigue
Can fit Clone Vat Bay
Can fit Industrial Core
Can operate Excavator Drones
Can fit three Command Burst modules
Can fit one Pulse Activated Nexus Invulnerability Core
50% bonus to Command Burst Area of Effect Range
5x penalty to Entosis Link cycle time
900% bonus to Survey Scanner range
200% bonus to Cargo Scanners range

Slot layout: 8H (+2), 7M, 4L (+1)
Fittings: 420,000 PWG (+115,000), 1200 CPU (+280)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 90,000 / 60,000 (+30,000) / 300,000 (+50,000)
Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 20 / 40 / 50
Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 35 / 35 / 10
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 67,500 (+12,940) / 4500s (+600) / 15 (+1)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 60 / 0.07 (+0.02) / 800,000,000 (-380,000,000) / 77.63s (-4.16)
Warp Speed: 1.5 au/s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 6000 (+5700)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 200km (+40) / 75 / 7
Sensor strength: 115 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 11500
Base jump drive range: 5ly (+2.5)
Jump drive fuel consumption: 2000 Oxygen (+500)
Cargo Hold: 40,000m3
Ore Hold: 300,000m3 (+50,000)
Fleet Hangar: 40,000m3
Ship Maintenance Bay: 1,000,000m3
Fuel Bay Capacity: 10,000m3

Cost: ~2.3b isk
Max Yield (no Industrial Core): ~3000m3 per minute + drone travel time
Max Yield (with Industrial Core): ~18400m3 per minute + drone travel time
Max DPS (no Industrial Core): ~1000 dps
Max DPS (with Industrial Core): ~2000 dps


Industrial Core II:
Requires Industrial Reconfiguration skill level 5
Duration: 5 minutes
Consumption: 1500 units of Heavy Water
Enables Ore and Ice Compression
Movement Effects:
  • -100% Rorqual velocity
  • +900% Rorqual mass
  • Prevents warping, docking, jumping, cloaking, tethering
Assistance and Electronic warfare:
  • 100% remote repair impedance (prevents other ships from repairing the Rorqual)
  • 80% remote assistance impedance (reduces the effect of remote assistance modules like remote sensor boosters)
  • 80% sensor dampener resistance
  • Full ECM immunity
  • +120% Scan resolution
Mining Foreman Burst Bonuses:
  • +30% Mining foreman burst strength
  • +200% Command burst range
Tanking and Remote Repair Bonuses:
  • +140% Local shield booster repair amount
  • -60% Local shield booster duration
  • -75% Remote shield booster duration and cap use
  • +120% Remote shield booster optimal and falloff range
Drone Damage and Mining Bonuses:
  • +100% Drone damage and hitpoints
  • +30% Drone MWD speed
  • +500% Drone mining yield
  • -80% Drone ice harvesting duration


P.A.N.I.C. Module:
Requires Invulnerability Core Operation skill level 1
Duration: 5 minutes base, up to 7.5 minutes based on skills
200km range
Applies to all mining and industrial ships within the same fleet, except other Rorquals
Runs once and then burns out
Limit of one module per ship
Bonuses to all affected ships:
  • +99.99% Shield Resists
  • -90% Shield recharge duration (increases passive shield regen rate)
  • All turret, missile, drone and smartbomb damage set to 0
  • +100% Mass
  • -50% velocity
  • Prevents warp, cloak, jump, dock, tethering (if already tethered do not apply)
  • [*] -75% scan resolution

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

C C P Alliance
#2 - 2016-10-04 13:39:17 UTC
We are interested in hearing what the community thinks about cyno restrictions for ships affected by the P.A.N.I.C. module. We are currently leaning towards allowing cyno lighting and watching closely to see if this causes problems. If needed, we can change the effect to prevent cyno lighting and prevent ships with an active cyno from receiving the P.A.N.I.C. effect.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

C C P Alliance
#3 - 2016-10-04 13:39:22 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Thanks for the feedback so far everyone.

A couple quick answers to questions we see coming up multiple times:

  • We're not planning on changing the restrictions on what ships are allowed into the Rorq SMB at this time. The concern with removing the restrictions is that it would become too powerful combined with the increased jump range.
  • The mining foreman ships won't have any ability to mine gas or mercoxit at this time. You'll want to use other ships for mining those substances.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

#4 - 2016-10-04 17:20:21 UTC
First!
#5 - 2016-10-04 17:26:32 UTC
rofl the panic button is a consumable.. the rorqual is soo fawked not everyone in regions will be able to use this.. you killed the rorqual fozzie.. you really have.. unless you add some more power to this thing.. its nothing but a Super and Titans' snicker bar.

miners better get your snickers candies now.
#6 - 2016-10-04 17:27:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Cade Windstalker
Few quick questions:


  • How much are you expecting the PANIC module to cost per-unit?
  • Does the jump restriction on PANIC'd ships include Wormholes?
  • What happens if a ship under PANIC is bumped out of the initial range?
  • Have you considered making a mass change to ships under the effects of PANIC?
  • Are there any restrictions between a PANIC module and the Industrial Core?
  • Does being PANIC'd block refitting from Mobile Depots or other ships?
  • Does the PANIC module burn out at the start of the cycle or the end? I ask because if it's the start I foresee someone hitting it and immediately refitting another in via Mobile Depot.
  • Does being PANIC'd affect mining yield?
  • What happens if a PANIC'd ship drops fleet, disconnects, ect?


Really like the look of these changes. They address most of the concerns that I've been hearing, especially after the change to Rorqual docking. I'm also personally in favor of allowing them to use Cyno's while PANIC'd. Should create some interesting potential for bait and other fun, besides if you restricted it you'd end up with things like people spitting out cyno Skiffs, jumping in them, and then lighting the Cyno that way.

One more question though, since you've actually introduced a reason for Rorquals to be out in a belt, why remove the tractor beam bonus? It seems like it might actually see use now.
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2016-10-04 17:28:38 UTC
The increase of the rorqual to 10 LY jump range (with JDC 5) is very much appreciated. I'm happy to see the emergent role of the rorqual as a hauler for hostile space isn't being discarded with the changes.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

#8 - 2016-10-04 17:28:48 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
rofl the panic button is a consumable.. the rorqual is soo fawked not everyone in regions will be able to use this.. you killed the rorqual fozzie.. you really have.. unless you add some more power to this thing.. its nothing but a Super and Titans' snicker bar.

miners better get your snickers candies now.


If you don't have the money or logistics to get a replacement module for this thing then you probably shouldn't be fielding a 2b ISK mining ship in the first place... just stick to the Orca.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#9 - 2016-10-04 17:41:07 UTC
The rorq/ships that are under panic would have to be allowed to light a cyno else the entire point of the module goes out the window since if the enemy fleet is upon you, there is little to no chance a response fleet would actually make it to you in time before it wore off without being bridged/jumping on top of you.

I still have massive feelings against requiring this ship to siege to provide max boosts (removing the tractor bonus to boot, so now even the haulers have to slow boat to your static position). It's yield is pretty dang high for a single ship so that gives it reason to be in a belt, but not so much to actually want to siege still. The risk is still far too high for nearly every region in the game to do so. We will have to wait and see how it plays out I guess.

Can you please tell us the speed of these new drones? Because if they're anything like the current mining drones they may have that much yield a minute but we may be looking at 2-5 minute round trips. So that great yield turns very ******, very quickly.
C C P Alliance
#10 - 2016-10-04 17:41:20 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
rofl the panic button is a consumable.

It's not a consumable. It burns out like an overheated module and can be repaired with nanite paste, for free with a structure tether, or in a station.

Cade Windstalker wrote:
Does the jump restriction on PANIC'd ships include Wormholes?

Yes

Cade Windstalker wrote:
What happens if a ship under PANIC is bumped out of the initial range?

The effect keeps running no matter what happens with the ship ranges (just like command bursts).

Cade Windstalker wrote:
[Have you considered making a mass change to ships under the effects of PANIC?

Considered it, but it would lead to some odd bumping edge cases.

Cade Windstalker wrote:
Are there any restrictions between a PANIC module and the Industrial Core?
Does being PANIC'd block refitting from Mobile Depots or other ships?

Nope and nope.

Cade Windstalker wrote:
Does the PANIC module burn out at the start of the cycle or the end? I ask because if it's the start I foresee someone hitting it and immediately refitting another in via Mobile Depot.

The burnout works just like the emergency hull energizer modules.

Cade Windstalker wrote:
Does being PANIC'd affect mining yield?

Mining remains unaffected.

Cade Windstalker wrote:
What happens if a PANIC'd ship drops fleet, disconnects, ect?

They'll sit there. Once started the effect lives on the affected ship and doesn't care about fleet or character status.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2016-10-04 17:43:32 UTC
I believe the industrial core will not be used much following the change.

I understand the purpose of the change, and the logic that everything is EVE has to carry some risk.

But a Rorqual is a 3 billions ISK ship. And you can give it all the tanking and P.A.N.I.C mode you want, when a 50 men gang of T3 cruisers will arrive in the belt your 3 bil ship will be dead. And the 7.5 minutes of invulnerability will not help (especially if cynos are not allowed to be lit, nobody will have time to formup and jump several gates in such a short time).

Maybe you will see some industrial cores running during peak time (evenings in EU and US TZ, Weekends) when there is a chance a fleet can come to defend, but most of the time it will not be used.

I like this change, but unless the price of the Rorqual drops significantly (let's say, 800M for the hull) there's no way I will use it with the industrical core... :)
Pandemic Legion
#12 - 2016-10-04 17:49:55 UTC
Thank you for increasing the hold and the jump range on the Rorqual, this might make combat logistics livable again!
#13 - 2016-10-04 17:52:01 UTC
Removed a post of being off topic. This is a thread about the coming changes to the Rorqual not a thread about Cloak Camping.

ISD Max Trix

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

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#14 - 2016-10-04 17:59:07 UTC
I always mined w/ my Rorqual @ 0 anyway! Fax alts ftw!

BUT I HAVE TO KNOW.

CAN THE EXCAVATORS MINE GAS? WANT TO DOUBLE MY BLUEPILL EMPIRE TO 32 TOWERS KKTHX.

-Koldani
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2016-10-04 17:59:23 UTC
Perhaps consider removing the drone mining bonus from the industrial core, and then compensate by further increasing the command bonus it provides.

The optimal setup isn't going to be rorq + fleet, it's going to be a gigantic fleet of rorqs all using siege to clear the entire belt/anom in one cycle. This will generate billions of isk per hour for multiboxers, and the risk will be tiny considering the rorqs can be cyno'd around citadels, logged on after a scout sets up bookmarks, and logged off after pulling in infinity ore.

If the siege module gives crazy bonuses to other ships, it might coax expensive toys onto the field for mining op. Content!

If the siege module turns the rorq into a mining ship that is 5x better than any other mining ship, it's going to get immediately and permanently multiboxed to death.

Love,

~Coelomate

#16 - 2016-10-04 17:59:45 UTC
Has there been any review with allowing the Rorqual into High sec?
#17 - 2016-10-04 18:01:32 UTC
basicaly i like the changes of the rorqual and the stats of the panic module exept one thing. Preventing all affected ships from warp makes this panic module and the rorqual rather useless.
#18 - 2016-10-04 18:07:30 UTC
Really would like to see this ship in High sec too - or give the orca / or a new style high sec mining capital - the same stats for mining in high sec.
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2016-10-04 18:10:19 UTC
From Devblog (and your post):

Quote:
Industrial Core II:

[...]
+500% Drone mining yield
-80% Drone ice harvesting duration


+500% means factor 6 (1 + 5 = 6)
-80% means factor 5 (1 / 0.2 = 5)

Intended?
Rising Darkness
#20 - 2016-10-04 18:10:42 UTC
If a Rorqual can fit through a WH with similar mass to a freighter....then it is possible to bring them into HS. Is that intentional?
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