Intergalactic Summit

 
 

BY REQUEST: Smacking the Butcher

Author
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#61 - 2016-12-29 15:31:55 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Saya Ishikari wrote:
Maybe anchor a container somewhere at the hind end of w-space? All you'd need are some drones, and a few pieces of equipment in said container.


If he's in space, he can be found. The can might be destroyed. Then his softclone would activate, and he'd be free.

Put him on ice for a century or two, make sure he hasn't been able to keep his license active.

Then shoot him in the head, when there is no clone.

Eh, I suppose there isn't a need to be fancy about it, really. But I did have this thought of having otherwise dead clones sculpted and seeding them all over the place for his "friends" to find, cryo preserved. Just to keep it interesting.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117

#62 - 2016-12-29 15:48:01 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Put him on ice for a century or two, make sure he hasn't been able to keep his license active.

Then shoot him in the head, when there is no clone.


Arrendis? Just to mention-- whether that even works will depend on what sort of parameters he has set up for his soft clone activation conditions. We're not allowed to have two copies active at once, but the point where we're considered "presumed dead" has some wiggle room in it.

I have mine set up with the possibility of me ending up considerably worse-than-dead at the hands of Nation or the Sani Sabik in mind. If it means I get stripped of personhood while still breathing and "rescue" means a bullet in the head, well, that's a price I'm kind of willing to pay.

I mention this here because I'm pretty sure if he hasn't already thought of this, one of his minions has, and also since I'd actually kind of recommend it to anybody who doesn't want to risk having a True Slave wandering around with their name and assets.
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#63 - 2016-12-29 15:49:51 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Put him on ice for a century or two, make sure he hasn't been able to keep his license active.

Then shoot him in the head, when there is no clone.


Arrendis? Just to mention-- whether that even works will depend on what sort of parameters he has set up for his soft clone activation conditions. We're not allowed to have two copies active at once, but the point where we're considered "presumed dead" has some wiggle room in it.

I have mine set up with the possibility of me ending up considerably worse-than-dead at the hands of Nation or the Sani Sabik in mind. If it means I get stripped of personhood while still breathing and "rescue" means a bullet in the head, well, that's a price I'm kind of willing to pay.

I mention this here because I'm pretty sure if he hasn't already thought of this, one of his minions has, and also since I'd actually kind of recommend it to anybody who doesn't want to risk having a True Slave wandering around with their name and assets.

A very, very good point.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117

Goonswarm Federation
#64 - 2016-12-29 15:53:16 UTC
Saya Ishikari wrote:
Eh, I suppose there isn't a need to be fancy about it, really. But I did have this thought of having otherwise dead clones sculpted and seeding them all over the place for his "friends" to find, cryo preserved. Just to keep it interesting.


He'd need friends.
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#65 - 2016-12-29 15:55:04 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Saya Ishikari wrote:
Eh, I suppose there isn't a need to be fancy about it, really. But I did have this thought of having otherwise dead clones sculpted and seeding them all over the place for his "friends" to find, cryo preserved. Just to keep it interesting.


He'd need friends.

True... Alright, let's just lock him in a hangar and throw in some food each day.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117

Triumvirate.
#66 - 2016-12-29 19:13:46 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:


Arrendis? Just to mention-- whether that even works will depend on what sort of parameters he has set up for his soft clone activation conditions. We're not allowed to have two copies active at once, but the point where we're considered "presumed dead" has some wiggle room in it.

I have mine set up with the possibility of me ending up considerably worse-than-dead at the hands of Nation or the Sani Sabik in mind. If it means I get stripped of personhood while still breathing and "rescue" means a bullet in the head, well, that's a price I'm kind of willing to pay.

I mention this here because I'm pretty sure if he hasn't already thought of this, one of his minions has, and also since I'd actually kind of recommend it to anybody who doesn't want to risk having a True Slave wandering around with their name and assets.


Consider also installing a dead-man switch self-destruct in your clone in that event. Our sentient nodes have such a thing to prevent forcible disconnection and retrieval of Nodes.

Also Arrendis, the place he would be kept would require over 100 Drifters to attack just to destroy him, it is properly fitted after all.
#67 - 2016-12-29 20:07:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Vlad Cetes wrote:
Consider also installing a dead-man switch self-destruct in your clone in that event.

That has its own problems, though.

If it requires active triggering, you might not be able to trigger it. If it's passively triggered, like on a timer, it can make survivable situations decidedly un-. If it requires a remote signal to prevent triggering, the signal can be jammed to trigger it or replicated to cause failure. If it requires a remote signal signal to trigger it, it can be jammed to cause failure or spoofed to trigger it. Either way it renders the clone vulnerable to remote attack in addition to all the other ways sabotage or malfunction can already get to us.

Sometimes an eraser might be worth it. Usually, not so much. It works best if you decide case by case whether you need one and use a different kind each time you do.
#68 - 2016-12-29 20:53:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Praevus
Aria Jenneth wrote:
I have mine set up with the possibility of me ending up considerably worse-than-dead at the hands of Nation or the Sani Sabik in mind. If it means I get stripped of personhood while still breathing and "rescue" means a bullet in the head, well, that's a price I'm kind of willing to pay.


Just a cursory side note - but you already were "stripped of personhood" once, ms. Jenneth. And, what does you new ego has to say about the one that existed before?

Aria Jenneth wrote:
In another sense, the person with those memories is a really unhappy person. Maybe I shouldn't be forgiven my past just because I can't remember it anymore, but, knowing that it's hard to draw a hard, principled line between her and me doesn't make me want to be her.


It's just irrational, basic human fears, like fear of death, or fear of change. You were remade anew in a random, barbaric, destructive way, but yet you got accustomed to it, grew another personality around it, like a tree grows around the damaging object and lives on, and now don't want to go back to your previous self you consider really unhappy.

It's all relative, you see.

Back on topic. I expected to see a practical businessman in mr. Mokk, but it seems that he's just as driven by petty emotions and pontless vendettas as most other blind people in the cluster. Looks like the entire topic of selling slaves to Nauplius was raised just to infiltrate his citadel and cause as much damage as possible.

A shame, really.

But well executed, so I guess congratulations, mr. Mokk.
Goonswarm Federation
#69 - 2016-12-30 00:31:01 UTC
Vlad Cetes wrote:
Also Arrendis, the place he would be kept would require over 100 Drifters to attack just to destroy him, it is properly fitted after all.


Or a rorqual and a dozen dreads.
Mercenary Coalition
#70 - 2016-12-30 07:39:46 UTC
So is this the thread where we pretend we can bypass the very same security measures that have - with 100% success rate so far - kept capsuleers on all sides from turning stations and hangars into slag for well over a decade? Okay okay, I got one too. I just totally activated my Fleet Typhoon's weapon systems inside a station. Oh and had armed forces in the hangar which totally means the station was invaded too.

For some reason the hub station in Amarr seems unaffected, and the freeport Citadels nearby too. Can't imagine why.
#71 - 2016-12-30 13:41:12 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
So is this the thread where we pretend we can bypass the very same security measures that have - with 100% success rate so far - kept capsuleers on all sides from turning stations and hangars into slag for well over a decade? Okay okay, I got one too. I just totally activated my Fleet Typhoon's weapon systems inside a station. Oh and had armed forces in the hangar which totally means the station was invaded too.

For some reason the hub station in Amarr seems unaffected, and the freeport Citadels nearby too. Can't imagine why.

Eh ... there's apparently no dispute among the various people involved that it happened, Miz. I gather Mr. Mokk managed to bypass the safety lockouts somehow, so I guess there was a vulnerability somewhere.

I wouldn't expect Upwell or CONCORD to leave it alone, whatever it was. Probably the patch is already in place by now.
Goonswarm Federation
#72 - 2016-12-30 15:00:31 UTC
Well, with Mokk, I'd assume Nauplius let him land to make a sale.
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
#73 - 2016-12-30 15:08:15 UTC
A madman being a bit slapdash with the official security implementations?

Inconceivable.

Bullets have a beauty and I don't know why.

#74 - 2016-12-30 16:06:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Praevus wrote:
Just a cursory side note - but you already were "stripped of personhood" once, ms. Jenneth. And, what does you new ego has to say about the one that existed before?

Aria Jenneth wrote:
In another sense, the person with those memories is a really unhappy person. Maybe I shouldn't be forgiven my past just because I can't remember it anymore, but, knowing that it's hard to draw a hard, principled line between her and me doesn't make me want to be her.

It's just irrational, basic human fears, like fear of death, or fear of change. You were remade anew in a random, barbaric, destructive way, but yet you got accustomed to it, grew another personality around it, like a tree grows around the damaging object and lives on, and now don't want to go back to your previous self you consider really unhappy.

It's all relative, you see.

Actually I'm way less horrified by her than I was when I first found out who I was.

Also, I've never been stripped of personhood, only of my personal memories. It was touch and go for a bit whether I'd be allowed to be "Aria Jenneth," but nobody could find a better copy, so, I got to be treated as a person instead of a patch of temporarily malfunctioning biomass. (I'd argue I was a "person" anyway-- just, maybe not one who was legally supposed to exist. It seems like there are places where the law chooses to be cruel because the alternative is to be crazy.)

So, here I am, arguably a usurper if the original "me" is still out there somewhere. Then again, she abandoned this identity and disappeared, so....

I don't say she was an unhappy person as a matter of moral judment; it's more just a sense I get about her from her public essays and private journals: that she was really depressed. I do seem to have a little both physiological and psychological predisposition towards depression, but it's not just that, either.

She self-identified as a murderer and a monster, and even if she went out of her way to justify being both of those things, comparing one's self to an organ-eating, shape-shifting fairy tale creature that pretends to be a sweet little girl or young woman so it can murder whole families in their beds isn't ... normally something happy people do?

I wouldn't think?

Her last "Children of Naught" essay, "End State," described floating away on a sea of abstraction and uncaring nothing, which is pretty close to the symptoms of clinical depression-- pathological apathy, being unable to care.

It also indicated that she had departed from the capsuleer class. Wherever she went, I hope she found some peace.

So, yeah. I don't think her having been a pretty unhappy person is very relative, except in the sense that there might be people who are even unhappier. It doesn't seem like something that ought to be some kind of race, though.

I do think morality is relative, but I also think that it's okay to say there are things human beings shouldn't do. So did she, but I try not to be the kind of person who says things like, "If I'm human, I should slit my own throat." I try to be someone I can be okay with living as, as a small and kind of fragile mortal being, not as a monster or a god.

And I think I'm a little happier for it.
Mercenary Coalition
#75 - 2016-12-30 16:36:01 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
So is this the thread where we pretend we can bypass the very same security measures that have - with 100% success rate so far - kept capsuleers on all sides from turning stations and hangars into slag for well over a decade? Okay okay, I got one too. I just totally activated my Fleet Typhoon's weapon systems inside a station. Oh and had armed forces in the hangar which totally means the station was invaded too.

For some reason the hub station in Amarr seems unaffected, and the freeport Citadels nearby too. Can't imagine why.

Eh ... there's apparently no dispute among the various people involved that it happened, Miz. I gather Mr. Mokk managed to bypass the safety lockouts somehow, so I guess there was a vulnerability somewhere.

I wouldn't expect Upwell or CONCORD to leave it alone, whatever it was. Probably the patch is already in place by now.


Mmm. A completely unprecedented event took place using some unknown and undocumented 'bypass' that would with certainty have led to immense and horrifying destruction and carnage across New Eden - hell, I'd be one of the people doing it - should this have been documented somehow. But no, one capsuleer came up with this bypass and used it to swat a clown a bit.

I think I'll just err on the side of reason and sanity here and say everyone involved are likely making something up. It wouldn't be all that surprising given the backlash against Sinjin already, that he convinced his trading partner to play along with a little charade.

A bit more likely than a sudden, unique and completely unprecedented vulnerability appearing, and just as quickly disappearing without some pretty hefty notice taken by certain official entities.

In the mean time, I'll be sending some sternly worded letters to the Emperor Family station managers in Amarr demanding an explanation as to why my imaginary Typhoon Fwoosh and quite real armed militia baseliners haven't taken control of or destroyed that station yet. That's just rude, isn't it? I mean, since we're apparently capable of such things.
#76 - 2016-12-30 16:38:05 UTC
Aria Jenneth your split away from reality be that what it may is evolving nicely;

into what I have only curiosity in the strange places your mind goes.

#77 - 2016-12-30 16:57:41 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
So, yeah. I don't think her having been a pretty unhappy person is very relative, except in the sense that there might be people who are even unhappier. It doesn't seem like something that ought to be some kind of race, though.

I do think morality is relative, but I also think that it's okay to say there are things human beings shouldn't do. So did she, but I try not to be the kind of person who says things like, "If I'm human, I should slit my own throat." I try to be someone I can be okay with living as, as a small and kind of fragile mortal being, not as a monster or a god.

And I think I'm a little happier for it.


So, in the end, the change was for the better, and this is good - not only for the current you, but, perhaps, for many others as well.

Perhaps, you might take this into account one day when putting a bullet in the head of a "monstrosity" that you would consider a victim, "stripped of personhood", for example, by works of the Nation.

Because, the victim in question might not think of self as a victim at all, be totally sure that the change was for the better, and fight tooth and nail to prevent their new state of body and mind taken from them.
#78 - 2016-12-30 17:07:10 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
I think I'll just err on the side of reason and sanity here and say everyone involved are likely making something up. It wouldn't be all that surprising given the backlash against Sinjin already, that he convinced his trading partner to play along with a little charade.

Believe what you like, Miz. It probably won't matter a lot for anybody involved.
#79 - 2016-12-30 17:18:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Praevus wrote:
So, in the end, the change was for the better, and this is good - not only for the current you, but, perhaps, for many others as well.

Perhaps, you might take this into account one day when putting a bullet in the head of a "monstrosity" that you would consider a victim, "stripped of personhood", for example, by works of the Nation.

Because, the victim in question might not think of self as a victim at all, be totally sure that the change was for the better, and fight tooth and nail to prevent their new state of body and mind taken from them.

I'm aware.

But just because a perspective is sincerely held, doesn't bind me not to snuff it out. If it's one held by a hostile version of myself, it might make it all the more important that I do.

I have a role to play in this world, Mr. Praevus. I accepted that I would be a killer the day I chose to be useful in the ways my training and resources made possible, instead of just live off of those resources.
#80 - 2016-12-30 18:42:52 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
I have a role to play in this world, Mr. Praevus. I accepted that I would be a killer the day I chose to be useful in the ways my training and resources made possible, instead of just live off of those resources.
So, you are a weapon, Ms. Jenneth? This is, of, course, a path as good as any other, but your intellectual capacity suggests that you could be so much more. A thinker. A mastermind. A philosopher and an artist, defining the paths for the future generations to follow.

...Oh well, one day we'll see the world where those who are truly worthy can realize the entirety of their potential. But alas, not now, not now yet.
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