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250% bonus to damage for combat interceptors. leave ehp as is.

get in. destroy your target. get out. the longer the engagement the less chance you have at winning, making them all or nothing ships.

I would rather fight a zealot or vega with my rifter than any of these new afs. However looks like its to late to change anything now they are just making it worse, Retribution with 7.5 tracking was really hoping they would move all the other af tracking bonuses down to at least 5. Thats eve if you don't like it ***** till they change it if they don't change it adapt if you cant adapt start bitching again. I have done my bitching now im going to try and adapt.
Prom its nice to know the guy I argued with the most flys and understands frigs, and was not just a total 0.0 blob leech. Although I suspect an ulterior motive for you pushing this thing so hard. Personally I hate flying AFs they are ugly and clunky, brawling interceptors are much more my style. The next few weeks are gonna be expensive.

Ps. the ab cepters are very capable of holding a cain inside scram an neut range 80% reduction in propulsion jamming makes it almost impossible to neut off the scram.

except that the cost ratio is reversed. navy/pirate frigs are as expensive or more expensive than AFs while the thorax is much cheaper than HACs.

Indeed.



This is the exact reasoning Dramiel pilots used when nerf discussions occured: "I should be able to kill everything because my ship costs 100kk".

I'm on SiSi now and can confirm it.

um fit a vamp or a neut, know your roll

This guy did not strike me as a person who knows what he was talking about so my comment was more the real world your dumb dont talk kind of know your roll and less eve" your roll is heavy tackler." It does still apply. If the new role is as a heavy tackle under webs and neuts then its very important to fit a vamp, Its also nice in solo pvp the vengeance recharge makes it so you can A) run your active setup for days or B) neut the other guys rig off. ccp has done a good job with setting a role just the unintended consequence is afs becoming wtfpwnmobiles for anything smaller than a cruiser.

If your acting like the AF in its current form is some helpless and broken ship your an idiot. If your argument is yes AFs are good already they should just be better then I cant really argue with you. This is because we have fundamentally different views on what constitutes fun in pvp. I like facing off against a equal in a ship with strengths a weaknesses to avoid and exploit.(the patch will damage that) Others like to face down superior foes acting like a thorn in its side until with the help of a few friends the behemoth can be killed. (thats totally acceptable and the new afs will be great for this) However you strike me as neither of these people my guess is your idea of fun is pressing f1 and waiting for the explosion.(congratulations this patch is for you)

The difference was that AFs were still garbage at the time, unable to compete, and the Drameil did every role better than the best of the ships. It was much faster than all the interceptors, tanked more than most of the AFs, tracking better than the best trackers, had more range than everything but the Harpy & Slicer, used no cap, and served as a better ewar platform than the EAFs.

They were the quintessential "get out of jail free" card, and it was exceedingly difficult to catch and kill them with anything, including other Dramiels. It meant people needed to gimp their ships for everything EXCEPT killing Dramiels.

The difference between the Cruiser-HAC matchup and the Navy/Pirate/Destroyer-AF matchup is that you can jump in one of those T1 ships within a week and you'd be a pain in the ass. They take next to no skill points to fit and fly, and are very effective. In order for one of those T1 cruisers to have a chance not only do you need the experience to know how to kill a HAC with a Cruiser, but you also need the skillpoints, which in the end means you've got the skills to fly a HAC instead if you wanted to.


@Stukkler
AFs are already way better than T1 frigates, and wipe the floor with them.
Their role is not to primarily kill frigates. They are big game hunters.
The changes make them better at the latter, but their effectiveness against base T1 frigates remains unchanged. T1 Frigates have always been smoked by AFs and this doesn't change that fact.

We already have a role of ships designed to counter Frigate support, and those are Destroyer hulls.
They work really well, and are still extreme threats to AFs.

The argument is a hollow one, largely because you can fit anything better than a T1 frigate and use them to counter frigates.
Fit a T1 Cruiser with a big tank & small guns and you've got a better ship to kill frigates AND destroyers with. Heck, an AB-fit Stabber is just as fast as an AB AF, but it's cheaper, has more damage, tank, & agility. Nerf the Stabber?

Anyways, if you actually tried these ships on sisi and took on some Cruisers, you'd find that the fight is anything but push button receive killmail.


@John
Pulse lasers have the worst tracking of every close range weapon system. Without that tracking bonus you can't even imagine hitting other AFs @ close range, nevermind drones. The Retribution has a large capacitor, and excellent cap. Fitting an MWD doesn't gimp the cap as bad as you imagine, and simply means you need to fit a nos if you want to run an active tank (like the rest of the AFs). It's a good ship.

I think we are saying the same thing about the tracking, my point was that it should be +7.5% and not +5%. Now that I read that it is now +7.5%, I removed it from my post.

I'm not too strongly against the MWD role bonus but I would prefer a bonus that benefits everyone than a bonus that benefits only a specific play style. I think it would be a bad design to give a role bonus to a specific module when the role of the ships isn't defined by the module in question.

That said, I think the biggest problem with the Retribution is that it only has 3 bonus vs 4 for all other AF.