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Any Alpha Clone managed to do level 4 missions yet?

Author
#81 - 2017-01-04 09:54:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
They can fly their faction T1 ships and Navy, up to cruiser. Also SoCT and some gift ships requiring only spaceship command I. No crosstraining for other faction ships for alphas.
Caldari State
#82 - 2017-01-04 10:18:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakawai
@ mkint
This is a thread on Alpha Clone capabilities.

  • Talos is a BC, and as such not available to Alphas. I've never tried "stretching the envelope" of a gunship for Security missions, but I'd be surprised if it can't be done
  • Ishkur is a T2 Frigate, not available to Alphas. I've been (in Help channel) told they can do impressive things though, and it looks very tough - a good base to support clever PVE combat techniques
  • Your Algos information includes Omega-only gear (Guns and Drones at least). I've spent a reasonable amount of time in T1/T1 Algos. None I've ever built could solo one of the harder L3 security missions, and I doubt they could handle even medium-level L4 Security mission. DPS is just too low, and tank too weak.

BTW you're not the only one to have done this, and this isn't intended as a personal attack. Your post + the "Starter Ship" response to it were just the most conveniently worded and positioned for a post I wanted to make.

I can accept you weren't boasting, and motive doesn't really matter anyway. The issue is that this kind of post works like disinformation ("forum PvP"), regardless of intention.

I really dislike the constant flow of misleading information to new players. EVE is rightly known as a game with a high startup threshold. There are are resources that help of course: experienced players who put significant effort into guiding new players, and sites like EvE Uni's wiki, so it's not an insurmountable barrier ... .

... but ...

... inaccurate information can waste a lot of a new players time. What of someone makes their medium-term "serious" income plan around one of the crazy claims that abound in NPC Corp and Help channels, and then finds it's completely impractical? Should they stay with EVE, and just start over? Some will, but this would be a particularly stupid reason to lose prospective new players.
#83 - 2017-01-04 14:14:37 UTC
Hakawai wrote:
@ mkint
This is a thread on Alpha Clone capabilities.

  • Talos is a BC, and as such not available to Alphas. I've never tried "stretching the envelope" of a gunship for Security missions, but I'd be surprised if it can't be done
  • Ishkur is a T2 Frigate, not available to Alphas. I've been (in Help channel) told they can do impressive things though, and it looks very tough - a good base to support clever PVE combat techniques
  • Your Algos information includes Omega-only gear (Guns and Drones at least). I've spent a reasonable amount of time in T1/T1 Algos. None I've ever built could solo one of the harder L3 security missions, and I doubt they could handle even medium-level L4 Security mission. DPS is just too low, and tank too weak.

BTW you're not the only one to have done this, and this isn't intended as a personal attack. Your post + the "Starter Ship" response to it were just the most conveniently worded and positioned for a post I wanted to make.

I can accept you weren't boasting, and motive doesn't really matter anyway. The issue is that this kind of post works like disinformation ("forum PvP"), regardless of intention.

I really dislike the constant flow of misleading information to new players. EVE is rightly known as a game with a high startup threshold. There are are resources that help of course: experienced players who put significant effort into guiding new players, and sites like EvE Uni's wiki, so it's not an insurmountable barrier ... .

... but ...

... inaccurate information can waste a lot of a new players time. What of someone makes their medium-term "serious" income plan around one of the crazy claims that abound in NPC Corp and Help channels, and then finds it's completely impractical? Should they stay with EVE, and just start over? Some will, but this would be a particularly stupid reason to lose prospective new players.

I've always qualified from the very beginning exactly the limits I expect from Alphas. I've said, no, I don't think they can solo lvl 4's and exactly why (lack of DPS.) But as far as I can tell, this thread, the OP and the title, never said anything about soloing. OP never said anything about running them for the sake of income or efficiency. As far as I can tell, the point of the thread was about pushing the limits of Alphas. And yeah, I'm totally convinced that a small fleet of alphas, even as few as 2 or 3, could do lvl 4's with much fun to be had. Alphas does not automatically mean rookie, inexperienced, unguided, or uninformed, though I'm convinced that even a rookie alpha could be able to succeed in taking part in lvl 4's with some fairly basic knowledge and an accelerated experience opportunity (i.e. lots of replacement ships for when things go wrong.) And I'm not even that smart, that I could figure out the mechanics to survive the missions the way I did, I expect pretty much anyone could figure it out quicker and at a much lower cost. But it is about a tactile understanding of the engine, not about bling.

I also want to point out that I've never been a fan of the gnosis. It has the same problems that mixing tanks or mixing guns has... mediocre at everything ends up being the same as functional at nothing. Pick a ship that's actually good at something and figure out how to exploit the hell out of it.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

#84 - 2017-01-04 17:43:55 UTC
Twenty Ten wrote:
Can they fly Gilas? Back when I was a noon I did many level 4s without issue in a Gila.


No as that require 2 racial cruiser skill trained.
#85 - 2017-01-04 17:49:23 UTC
Dwai Attic wrote:
Kosomot wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Or just don't solo lvl 4's and they will be easy with several alpha's.


This..

Alpha Gang running level 4's will be a thing.

I can see Drone Masses with Vexor Gang's hammering Level 4 misisons





Would it be even profitable? I'm not familiar with missions (thank god) but I imagine the pay would be pretty negligible.


It's ahrd to make mission unprofitable. You literally have to shoot more ammo than the ISK you get from the NPC kill itself, the mission reward, the bonus reward and the effective value of the LP reward. Faction ammo in a level 1 mission with large gun might run you in the red I guess...
#86 - 2017-01-04 20:25:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Casandra Laur
I, myself, do not want to do any arguing. I would like to think that an Alpha thinking about L4s, might game some insight from this post.

Did you know that "Gnosis is the common Greek noun for knowledge (in the nominative case γνῶσις f.). It generally signifies a dualistic knowledge in the sense of mystical enlightenment or "insight"."

Any way, this is the very first post:

"Any Alpha clone managed to do L4 missions yet? -efficiently or doable?"

It seems like to me that means doing them solo.

It's just not a simple yes or no answer, that's why we're into the 5th page. An Alpha could do some L4's. Mission's like "Enemies Abound", no. "The Anomaly Part 1 and 2", yes; part 3, no. "The Assault", no. "Cargo Delivery", yes. "Dread Pirate Scarlet", no. "Guristas Spies", no. "Recon", yes. etc. etc.

I'm sure that if there is a difficult L4 mission that could be completed by an Alpha, it wouldn't be done efficiently.

A person in a heavy tanked Drake, could do possibly all L4s, but it would take forever.

The overall outlook for L4s for a solo Alpha, as the OP asked, is not good. I don't think Alphas are going to get rich quick.

-Cassy
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2017-01-09 03:07:11 UTC
[Gnosis]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II

Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
EM Ward Amplifier II
Thermal Dissipation Amplifier II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

Drone Link Augmentor I
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun

Medium Core Defense Field Purger II
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I


'Integrated' Hobgoblin x5
'Integrated' Hammerhead x5

Antimatter Charge M

This is my level 3 missions Gnosis, with my current alpha skills, it does 354.5 dps and has 43,475 ehp, with 70/70/70/53 resists on shield. I want to swap another field purger for the tech two variant when I get more isk and maybe swap the ammo for faction ammo if the dps is not enough for level 4s. The speed is awful, 155.3 m/s but I don't much moving around except slowly move away from the groups while aggroing them with my rails, then when I got solid aggro, let the ligths take out the small stuff, then swap with mediums for cruisers and above. I have just hit the rating necessary for level 4 missions, but haven't done any yet, I'm tired and I'm going to bed. I'll post a reply again tomorrow after I have done a few level 4s. By the way, my tank doesn't fall below 80% during level 3 missions, and I've only been running security level 3s so far.
#88 - 2017-01-09 10:25:33 UTC
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2017-01-09 13:08:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Novaseeker Amatin
OK so an update. I just did my first level 4 mission in the gnosis I posted above, it was a Serpentis Extravaganza Level 4 security, my tank was more than fine, I never needed to warp out, I took my time clearing one group at a time, the damage was fine, and with this occasion I discovered that my light drones are faster and better at killing the mission battleships than my medium drones. It took a bit to finish the mission, I spent some time after clearing each room regenerating my capacitor (my gnosis is not cap stable while using rails and the invulnerability field at the same time, it takes about 10 minutes to deplete, but I'm not using the guns all the time), while my mtu gathered up all the stuff, but the point is, as an alpha, with about 1.5 mil sp, most of them in drones and shields, it is perfectly doable to run level 4 missions with a decent fit.

edit: I forgot to add that I did it with a 5% penalty to resists, shield and damage, due to the incursion currently taking place in the region where I can do level 4 missions.
#90 - 2017-01-09 15:37:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Casandra Laur
Good to hear!

Your passive tank generates about 70hp/s, about the same for my active tank. You were putting out low dps, as compared to about 500dps from my Gnosis (400 rails, 100 drones)

The extravaganza is basically an easy mission with 5 pockets. As long as you watch the triggers, you only have to deal with a few ships in each spawn in each pocket. I'm sure it took lots of time for each group. There aren't any scrambling frigates either.

With the shield booster running (at 70hp/s), my friend was in armor in about 1m in Ememies Abound part 1.

As I said previously, I'm sure there are L4 missions that an Alpha could do, but not very efficiently at all.

It probably took 45min or even an hour for you to complete the extravaganza, but you did complete it. How many L3s can you do in one hour. There may be a balance point, but less stressful.

Try your luck on Enemies Abound part 1, for a true comparison. (really I wish you well, because with your fit, you will also be in armor in about 1m., so get aligned to your station as soon as you warp in.)

-Cassy
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2017-01-09 18:21:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Novaseeker Amatin
Yeah my gun skills are garbage, haven't trained anything in there yet, I focused early on maxing out all gallente alpha available drone skills and then shield skills, I know my dps still needs working on. I'm still training engineering skills now because I could use a bit more cap.

The point was that it is perfectly doable for alphas to run level 4 missions, even security ones, by paying attention to what you fit, what you fight, how you fight, etc. Was mostly addressing the guy on the first page of the thread that was so vehement in saying that it's impossible.

As an addendum, I would like to say that being an alpha, I don't have to focus on maximizing isk/hour, being an alpha I don't have to worry about the subscription time running out and trying to get isk for a plex as quickly as possible, I like to take things at leisure and explore what I can do with the limited tools that I have at my disposal.
#92 - 2017-01-11 22:04:28 UTC
Maybe as a final statement on Alphas doing L4 missions, maybe.

Yes, some L4 missions an Alpha is capable of doing. Will they do it in a timely manner? No.

Also, there are some L4 missions that an Alpha will simply fail at. (please don't try this at home.)

That should just about sum it up.

-Cassy

(I shouldn't say, but I'm working on a Gnosis fit that has two large ancillary boosters. So far everything fits and is cap stable, and still puts out some decent damage. The Gnosis has a great cargo bay for the booster charges. Shield hp reps is almost 200.)

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