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If you had ONE remap to train EVERY skill in EVE it should be PER/INT!

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#1 - 2017-01-04 17:28:37 UTC  |  Edited by: THE PROG
Disclaimer: This is just for fun and not very practical! (unless you are in fact planning to train every skill on one remap Smile) Though it could provide some insight


Hi all, I was curious so I did some math to see how certain remaps would fair for training EVERY skill in EVE.


Time (years) to train every EVE skill per remap (+5 implants, starting at 0 SP)

PRI    SEC   SP/Hour   Time (years)
per    int    2,343    24.01
per    mem    2,324    24.21
per    wil    2,297    24.50
int    per    2,293    24.54
per    cha    2,263    24.86
mem    per    2,262    24.86
int    wil    2,236    25.16
wil    per    2,233    25.19
wil    int    2,223    25.30
int    mem    2,220    25.35
mem    wil    2,210    25.45
wil    mem    2,209    25.46
mem    int    2,206    25.50
int    cha    2,181    25.80
mem    cha    2,155    26.11
wil    cha    2,153    26.13
cha    per    2,135    26.35
cha    int    2,102    26.77
cha    mem    2,088    26.95
cha    wil    2,087    26.96
nul    nul    1,980    28.41

PRI = 27 + 5 = 32 with implants
SEC = 21 + 5 = 26 with implants
Other = 17 + 5 = 22 with implants


EDIT: added a perfect (unlimited) remaps training for reference

PRI    SEC   SP/Hour   Time (years)
max    max    2,700    20.84


So if you always had the fastest training time possible it would be 15.23% faster than purely PER/INT.
Not TOO much of a difference! But keep in mind this drastically changes when you don't actually want to train every spaceship command skill possible :)



Yes, I know there are other combinations of attributes but I only calculated the format of PRIMARY | SECONDARY, and PER/INT is provably the fastest when training EVERY skill.

I obtained these numbers by grouping all skills into their "attribute pairs" based on PRI and SEC attributes, totaling the SP from these groups, applying the math for implants and remaps to each of them, and summing their totals.


The equations are simply as follows:

Training(minutes) = SP / ( (PRIMARY) + (SECONDARY/2) ) so...
SP/Hour = ( (PRIMARY) + (SECONDARY/2) ) * 60

Example: Perfect INT/MEM remap = ( (32) + (26/2) ) * 60 = 2700 SP/Hour (with +5 implants)


In fact, you can calculate any combination of implants and remaps by using the above formulas with the below data.

'Attribute Pairs' SP Share:

Every Skill in EVE falls into one of the below attribute pairs

PRI    SEC    Group SP
cha    int    7,168,000
cha    mem    7,168,000
cha    per    18,432,000
cha    wil    3,072,000
        
int    mem    143,616,000
int    per    11,008,000
        
mem    cha    9,472,000
mem    int    24,320,000
mem    per    33,024,000
mem    wil    2,048,000
        
per    wil    196,352,000
        
wil    cha    1,280,000
wil    int    7,168,000
wil    per    28,672,000
        
TOTAL        492,800,000

Note how perception only has one combination where it's a primary attribute, and it still wins! (spaceship command OP)



This next chart shows the total SP each attribute can affect as both PRI and SEC

SP 'involved' per Attribute

         PRIMARY          SECONDARY
cha       35,840,000       10,752,000
int       154,624,000       38,656,000
mem       68,864,000       150,784,000
per       196,352,000       91,136,000
wil       37,120,000       201,472,000


So yeah, most of this information isn't particularly useful, but I hope you've had some fun viewing it! PLEASE actually USE your remaps :)

If you have any questions or want me to calculate something with other combinations let me know, I couldn't upload anything as I've done this at work, but I may be able to create a spreadsheet at home later if anyone is interested. And please let me know if you find any errors as this was all done manually

-THE PROG
#2 - 2017-01-04 17:28:54 UTC
reserved
#3 - 2017-01-04 17:32:50 UTC
The only "useful" conclusion I get from that is that charisma sucks.
#4 - 2017-01-04 17:35:04 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The only "useful" conclusion I get from that is that charisma sucks.


well... PER/CHA at #5! But yeah the worst by FAR as it's used in the least skills and the (mostly) least useful
#5 - 2017-01-04 17:51:57 UTC
THE PROG wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The only "useful" conclusion I get from that is that charisma sucks.


well... PER/CHA at #5! But yeah the worst by FAR as it's used in the least skills and the (mostly) least useful


Worst primary and even worse secondary. It's in its very own class of bad.
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2017-01-04 17:58:22 UTC
I like to start of with Int 23/Per 21/Mem21 myself. Most early core skills are Int/Mem and for the others it still provide a decent SP/Hour score.

Soon to be Trading Alt. All future Forum activities will be conducted by Akane Togenada who for all purposes and until further notice shall be considered the "Main" of this player.

#7 - 2017-01-04 18:01:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
Yeah we know.

But here's a thought exercise: Assume you want to use as few of the bonus remaps as possible, and compare the speed of training the skills a newbie would typically need to train at first, including some basic Social and Trade, and compare the speed gain from Per/Int vs. the default (no remap), and tell us if you think it's worth wasting a remap to go Per/Int.

As opposed to leaving your attributes as they are for the first month as you train basic skills to about 3, and THEN remapping Int/Mem for a year to get the support skills trained enough for prerequisites for T2 ships.

My typical plans are:

(*** for alts that are just sitting there training, and not being played much):
1-2 months no remap, followed by yearly switching between Int/Mem and Per/Wil

(*** for a new character that I intend to actually play and have access to a number of ships and weapons right away):
Per/Int for 1 year, followed by Int/Mem and Per/Wil alternating yearly.
#8 - 2017-01-04 18:36:25 UTC
After the first couple of years (bonus/holiday remaps were more of a thing then) I went on a 3 year per/will; will/per plan and am now at the end of my last ever 2 year int/mem plan.

Its all bollox now anyway as you can do it all in minutes with SP injectors.

Drones/Leadership stuff are the only outliers to deal with if you're not using injectors.
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2017-01-04 19:11:23 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
+1 to the OP, that's definitely some good work.

I don't do Neural Remaps since I basically do a lot of jumping around training different skills. Because of that I've set my attributes up like a 'Jack Of All Skill Groups'.

Attributes / Augmentations :

Intelligence 22 / +5 Improved = 27
Perception 20 / +5 Improved = 25
Willpower 20 / +5 Improved = 25
Memory 20 / +5 Improved = 25
Charisma 17 / +5 Improved = 22

Anyway, I'm not sure where my Attribute set up would rate on your list.


DMC
#10 - 2017-01-04 19:29:05 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
+1 to the OP, that's definitely some good work.

I don't do Neural Remaps since I basically do a lot of jumping around training different skills. Because of that I've set my attributes up like a 'Jack Of All Skill Groups'.

Attributes / Augmentations :

Intelligence 22 / +5 Improved = 27
Perception 20 / +5 Improved = 25
Willpower 20 / +5 Improved = 25
Memory 20 / +5 Improved = 25
Charisma 17 / +5 Improved = 22

Anyway, I'm not sure where my Attribute set up would rate on your list.


DMC


Your mapping does pretty well for training all skills:


          SP/Hour  Time (years)
custom    2,274    24.73

Caldari State
#11 - 2017-01-04 20:30:06 UTC
No need to wait 24-28 years, it can be done in just a couple of hours:

http://eveboard.com/pilot/IronBank

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
#12 - 2017-01-04 20:42:35 UTC
What would Per 5 Intel 4 and Will 1 work out too?

Have you heard anything I've said? You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right? That's right. Had to end sometime.

#13 - 2017-01-04 20:51:38 UTC
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
What would Per 5 Intel 4 and Will 1 work out too?


Not sure what you mean, you get 14 remap points if everything is reset to lowest
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2017-01-04 21:06:50 UTC
There were MANY skills removed and added to the game in 10 years, you have no guarantee that this is how it's gonna be for 20 years, and probably it will not.

CCP can change skills, can change training, can change attributes, hell they can even remove training.


And lastly if you wanna train 100 mil sp, all you gotta do is buy 200 injectors for $300 .

Or even become a GM and have your skills simply maxed out through a click of an enter key.
Black Marker
#15 - 2017-01-04 21:51:37 UTC
Akali Mid wrote:
There were MANY skills removed and added to the game in 10 years, you have no guarantee that this is how it's gonna be for 20 years, and probably it will not.

CCP can change skills, can change training, can change attributes, hell they can even remove training.


And lastly if you wanna train 100 mil sp, all you gotta do is buy 200 injectors for $300 .

Or even become a GM and have your skills simply maxed out through a click of an enter key.

Your math is terribly, terribly wrong.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.

#16 - 2017-01-04 22:06:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
Extremely terribly wrong, heh.

1 injector = 630m ISK.

First 5 million SP = 9 injectors = 5.7 B ISK.
5m - 50 m SP = 113 injectors = 71 B ISK.
50m - 80m SP = 100 injectors = 63 B ISK.
80m - 100m SP = 134 injectors = 84 B ISK.

Total 100m SP = 224 B ISK = 224 PLEX = $4,000
Akis Talanas
#17 - 2017-01-04 22:40:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Akis Talanas
Aren't you people have other hobbies than to post strange mathematics that no one cares about? :-)

This is a game and no math class......

Man i hate this theory craft thing in all its forms like hell......

And everybody else should think the same..... :-)
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
#18 - 2017-01-04 23:29:57 UTC
THE PROG wrote:
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
What would Per 5 Intel 4 and Will 1 work out too?


Not sure what you mean, you get 14 remap points if everything is reset to lowest

Yes my bad Im thinking the ten points and forgot the other 4. So would be Per 6 Intel 6 and Will 2.

/me goes outside behind the barn with a gunRollTwisted

Have you heard anything I've said? You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right? That's right. Had to end sometime.

Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2017-01-04 23:30:50 UTC
THE PROG wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
+1 to the OP, that's definitely some good work.

I don't do Neural Remaps since I basically do a lot of jumping around training different skills. Because of that I've set my attributes up like a 'Jack Of All Skill Groups'.

Attributes / Augmentations :

Intelligence 22 / +5 Improved = 27
Perception 20 / +5 Improved = 25
Willpower 20 / +5 Improved = 25
Memory 20 / +5 Improved = 25
Charisma 17 / +5 Improved = 22

Anyway, I'm not sure where my Attribute set up would rate on your list.


DMC


Your mapping does pretty well for training all skills:


          SP/Hour  Time (years)
custom    2,274    24.73

Thank you for figuring that out.

I also wanted to add that I don't use Skill Injectors either. Course I did use half a dozen of the Blood Raider Cerebral Accelerators gained from The Crimson Harvest event a couple months ago. Was nice having +10 added to my attributes, each one lasting for 48 hrs. I will definitely take advantage of that option again whenever it becomes available in the future.


DMC


Fidelas Constans
#20 - 2017-01-05 09:58:40 UTC
Thank goodness I found this thread, I was only just this morning contemplating what to do for the next 20 years of my life Shocked

I am useless at managing remaps, too focused on Gunnery / Spaceship Command, so support skills normally suck to train ( Damn you fighters 5 )

Big smile
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