Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
 

Suggestion for omega players going back to Alpha

Author
#1 - 2016-12-30 17:18:30 UTC
Many games have a "premium" status for those who pay real money but don't subscribe.

Thinking about how alpha clones work... there isn't a whole lot that would be advisable for a "former Omega" to get that a normal Alpha doesn't get already.

I really only have one suggestion. Right now the Alpha skill list is tied to the race of the toon. My suggestion is that if someone goes Omega than back to Alpha... they get access to train and use all of the skills that any alpha toon can use. So essentially they'd be able to train drones/missles/racial frigates and cruisers/etc to the highest level that an alpha of any race can reach.

This would seem to have no real impact on game balance... as alphas can get those skills already. It would however allow an omega who was an amarr flying caldari to be able to keep flying caldari frigates and cruisers.

Ivy League
#2 - 2016-12-30 17:52:00 UTC
Lena Crews wrote:
Many games have a "premium" status for those who pay real money but don't subscribe.

Thinking about how alpha clones work... there isn't a whole lot that would be advisable for a "former Omega" to get that a normal Alpha doesn't get already.

I really only have one suggestion. Right now the Alpha skill list is tied to the race of the toon. My suggestion is that if someone goes Omega than back to Alpha... they get access to train and use all of the skills that any alpha toon can use. So essentially they'd be able to train drones/missles/racial frigates and cruisers/etc to the highest level that an alpha of any race can reach.

This would seem to have no real impact on game balance... as alphas can get those skills already. It would however allow an omega who was an amarr flying caldari to be able to keep flying caldari frigates and cruisers.


Why? You get what you pay for! If you don't want to pay be gratefull whatever CCP offers you! You are using up Server time etc so you are producing costs without paying anything.

Short: NO!!!!!!!
#3 - 2016-12-30 19:37:25 UTC
I doubt that would make ccp more money. In fact i think more people may drop to alpha and stop paying, or pay once and never pay again.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

#4 - 2016-12-30 21:25:39 UTC
Lena Crews wrote:
Many games have a "premium" status for those who pay real money but don't subscribe.

Thinking about how alpha clones work... there isn't a whole lot that would be advisable for a "former Omega" to get that a normal Alpha doesn't get already.

I really only have one suggestion. Right now the Alpha skill list is tied to the race of the toon. My suggestion is that if someone goes Omega than back to Alpha... they get access to train and use all of the skills that any alpha toon can use. So essentially they'd be able to train drones/missles/racial frigates and cruisers/etc to the highest level that an alpha of any race can reach.

This would seem to have no real impact on game balance... as alphas can get those skills already. It would however allow an omega who was an amarr flying caldari to be able to keep flying caldari frigates and cruisers.


What? You mean I get to stop paying for 80% of my accounts?

Since I have all the skills I need on all those support characters, and I don't need to train them for anything else in the foreseeable future, this sounds like a great idea to save me a lot of money, and cut CCP's income by that same amount.
#5 - 2016-12-30 21:44:10 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
I doubt that would make ccp more money. In fact i think more people may drop to alpha and stop paying, or pay once and never pay again.


I don't see how that would be the case.

I'm not talking about allowing former omega's to be logged in simultaneously. I'm not talking about using omega skills. I'm basically just saying that an account that pays for omega and goes back could fly the alpha ships for any race... not just the one they were created with.

I think it should probably be limited to those who spend real cash on a sub or a plex... not for using a plex in game.

The point (for CCP) would be a carrot to draw new players into a subscription trial... and hopefully keeping them that way by the increased experience they get while subbed. But even if they don't... there's not any difference for game balance. I can create 4 Alpha accounts and train up each to max alpha skills in less than a year without paying anything.

But if I create one alpha account and sub it for a month so that I can get max alpha skills for each race on one character... they get money and I can't see how that would be more imbalancing. I'm still flying frigates and cruisers on that account. I still have no cloaking, cynos or passive income. I can just fly amarr cruisers as a caldari or minmatar as a gallente.

Not really a big deal for me. I resubbed two accounts for a year each when I came back... so the alpha experience as is already worked for CCP. But I am trying to recruit others who are hesitant to pay. Having a permanent benefit for a 1 month sub might be something I could use as a selling point... especially since most MMORPG players are used to the free/premium/sub model of play. I've spent small amounts of real money on several games to "unlock" the premium play level that I wouldn't have if they didn't have some permanent bonus. I don't subscribe to any of those anymore... but they got some cash out of me by offering that they wouldn't have otherwise. If it doesn't imbalance the game (which I don't think my suggestion would since all of those skills are available to alpha players anyway)... what would be the downside?
#6 - 2016-12-30 21:48:01 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Lena Crews wrote:
Many games have a "premium" status for those who pay real money but don't subscribe.

Thinking about how alpha clones work... there isn't a whole lot that would be advisable for a "former Omega" to get that a normal Alpha doesn't get already.

I really only have one suggestion. Right now the Alpha skill list is tied to the race of the toon. My suggestion is that if someone goes Omega than back to Alpha... they get access to train and use all of the skills that any alpha toon can use. So essentially they'd be able to train drones/missles/racial frigates and cruisers/etc to the highest level that an alpha of any race can reach.

This would seem to have no real impact on game balance... as alphas can get those skills already. It would however allow an omega who was an amarr flying caldari to be able to keep flying caldari frigates and cruisers.


What? You mean I get to stop paying for 80% of my accounts?

Since I have all the skills I need on all those support characters, and I don't need to train them for anything else in the foreseeable future, this sounds like a great idea to save me a lot of money, and cut CCP's income by that same amount.


I think you missed the point of the suggestion.

I'm not advising any skill that is not available to alphas be allowed to be used by a former Omega.

I'm suggesting that a former omega gets the ALPHA skills from all races... not just their own.

You still couldn't do PI or cloak or have heavy or sentry drones or fly battleships. It's just instead of being limited to frigates, cruisers and destroyers of your race... all of the races would be unlocked. You'd have the alpha skill list (which is very limited) of every race available instead of just your own race.

You'd still have to pay for your support accounts... unless everything you use them for is covered by alpha skills of one race or another. And if that is the case... you don't really need to pay for them anyway... just make sure you have the right race for the right support role you are using the account for.
#7 - 2016-12-31 01:55:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
If people want the extra skills and to fly pirate ships they have to stay subbed. With your idea they pay once.

Go ahead and train 4 different accounts. You dont get all e-war on one. Half of them cant use med drones, the other half cant use missiles. 3 cant use logi drones or specialised haulers and none can fly pirate ships.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

#8 - 2016-12-31 03:47:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Matthias Ancaladron
Daichi Yamato wrote:
If people want the extra skills and to fly pirate ships they have to stay subbed. With your idea they pay once.

Go ahead and train 4 different accounts. You dont get all e-war on one. Half of them cant use med drones, the other half cant use missiles. 3 cant use logi drones or specialised haulers and none can fly pirate ships.


That's a shallow argument that's flat out reaching for something to be upset over
Pirate ships > omega only gold banner, problem solved.

Really itd be more like
>Clone_state_required>omega or something to that effect but it tosses that entire argument right out the window tbh.
#9 - 2016-12-31 03:58:58 UTC
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
If people want the extra skills and to fly pirate ships they have to stay subbed. With your idea they pay once.

Go ahead and train 4 different accounts. You dont get all e-war on one. Half of them cant use med drones, the other half cant use missiles. 3 cant use logi drones or specialised haulers and none can fly pirate ships.


That's a shallow argument that's flat out reaching for something to be upset over

More shallow than yet another "gib me moar free stuffz" thred?
#10 - 2016-12-31 21:23:26 UTC
My post mentions more than pirate ships. It's also the consolidation of four chars into one. Why let them do that for a one off payment when it costs a monthly sub now? Even if i didn't have any argument at all, why invite people who are already paying monthly to pay once and then stop?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Evictus.
#11 - 2016-12-31 22:55:21 UTC
If you don't have the skills for your racial ships, it only take a few days to train them, returning players probably have enough assets to buy a skill extractor - extract skills they can't use and inject the skills they need.

CCP is walking a fine line between giving Alphas enough access to make the game fun without depreciating the value of a subscription. I think they have done a pretty good job!
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#12 - 2017-01-01 17:54:23 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Why? You get what you pay for! If you don't want to pay be gratefull whatever CCP offers you! You are using up Server time etc so you are producing costs without paying anything.

Short: NO!!!!!!!

If this logic was economically accurate, CCP wouldn't have introduced Alpha Clones in the first place. We may as well assume that the big shots are greedy and looking out for themselves, so why don't we look out for ourselves a bit? It is okay to ask for a feature on no basis other than want. If CCP feels it will come at a cost, they will let us know and ask us how to proceed.


I meant to link the time CCP actually asked us specifically whether or not we want development resources spent on something, but after spending about an hour looking for it, I linked this instead.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Circle-Of-Two
#13 - 2017-01-02 08:34:50 UTC
Lena Crews wrote:
Many games have a "premium" status for those who pay real money but don't subscribe.

Thinking about how alpha clones work... there isn't a whole lot that would be advisable for a "former Omega" to get that a normal Alpha doesn't get already.

I really only have one suggestion. Right now the Alpha skill list is tied to the race of the toon. My suggestion is that if someone goes Omega than back to Alpha... they get access to train and use all of the skills that any alpha toon can use. So essentially they'd be able to train drones/missles/racial frigates and cruisers/etc to the highest level that an alpha of any race can reach.

This would seem to have no real impact on game balance... as alphas can get those skills already. It would however allow an omega who was an amarr flying caldari to be able to keep flying caldari frigates and cruisers.



No pay for the sub or live with the small amount an alpha gets !!!

-1
#14 - 2017-01-03 14:21:40 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
My post mentions more than pirate ships. It's also the consolidation of four chars into one. Why let them do that for a one off payment when it costs a monthly sub now? Even if i didn't have any argument at all, why invite people who are already paying monthly to pay once and then stop?



The "why" would be to get a one time payment out of them that wouldn't have been pocketed by CCP otherwise.

I don't feel like someone who's subscribing monthly is going to want to stop unless they feel like they can get most of what they want without paying. Most of the returning people to eve who had more advanced skills resubscribed after getting another taste (like me). The gap between Alpha and omega makes you want to re-subscribe. I don't believe having a "premium" level where you get all races alpha skills would change that.

The pirate ship point IS a good one though. You'd have to add some requirement to keep those Omega only for the idea to work (some skill level as a pre-req that only Omega's could reach).

The reasoning I am using basically is this.

-No new skills would be granted to non subscribers. They'd just have access to all of the skills available to non-subscribers instead of a subset.
-The hope is that by giving the "pay once" players a carrot... they'd try a subscription they wouldn't otherwise try (thus earning money for CCP). They'd get access to a lot of stuff they WILL lose by going back to not paying... and maybe some percentage of them keep paying for the subscription to keep all of the benefits.


The entire point of alpha clones is to get more money. A free taste will get some people to pay. But the idea that you'd be able to keep some portion of what you pay for after your subscription of up would provide more incentive for people to pay at least once... and possibly lead to them paying for months or years.

Unless people have a very different outlook than I do (possible), I can't see people who are enjoying the full game being satisfied with being an alpha or even my proposed "alpha-plus" (beta?). Limitation to T1 cruisers and frigates with no T2 weapons or drones, no industry, no PI, no research and limited trade slots and hauling.... it took a week of playing as an alpha for me to crave full access. That wouldn't have changed if I could fly vexors along with ruptures.... I wanted to get back in T2 ships with T2 weapons.

The purpose would be simply to make subscribing seem more interesting. To make a new player enjoying themselves think "This is fun. Maybe I'll pay for a month and see if I like the full game... and if I don't then I can fly amarr frigates as well as caldari." instead of thinking "This is fun. I'm just going to stick with Alpha since if I pay for a month I won't be able to use any of those skills if I drop back to F2P."

Maybe that isn't needed though.
#15 - 2017-01-04 16:02:12 UTC
Think it this way: with all those alpha joining eve playing for free indefinitely, the price of PLEX (ISK ) will rise making for them harder to get an omega clone. That being said, even if for a former omega it will be allowed to mantain the skills they unlocked in omega state, this new way of doing things will probably make CCP richer.
#16 - 2017-01-04 16:11:37 UTC
People though CCP going F2P would create a lot of suggestion to add tot he F2P offering.

They were right.

Why do people always ask for more free stuff when they are given some?
#17 - 2017-01-04 16:17:44 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
People though CCP going F2P would create a lot of suggestion to add tot he F2P offering.

They were right.

Why do people always ask for more free stuff when they are given some?


why is it that this is the only consistent arguement I've seen against consolidating the alpha clone skill list and removing the racial limitations? "LOL what are you, poor?" is not a valid argument.
#18 - 2017-01-04 16:24:46 UTC
Another satisfied alpha clone user. Interested in Eve and wanting for more.

A subscription is the key to your future happiness. Any small alpha gain will only leave you wanting down the road. Embrace your desire to experience the full beauty of Eve. Pay the subscription and you too can have it ALL!!!!
#19 - 2017-01-04 19:12:31 UTC
blargderp wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
People though CCP going F2P would create a lot of suggestion to add tot he F2P offering.

They were right.

Why do people always ask for more free stuff when they are given some?


why is it that this is the only consistent arguement I've seen against consolidating the alpha clone skill list and removing the racial limitations? "LOL what are you, poor?" is not a valid argument.


CCP devalue their own product every time they add feature to alpha account. At what point is it supposed to stop?
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