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40 days Alpha-Clone review

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Amarr Empire
#181 - 2017-01-11 02:11:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Zoubidah Al-Kouffarde
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Think chess in space, not battles.


L O L
O
L

Chess is played on a even playfield, same number of pieces, with rules that are really easy to understand and remember, instead of the circonvoluted, byzantine and very exploitable bizarre gameplay mechanics that EvE sports -not even considering the meta lying and deception, which are impossible in chess-

You're a sad tryhard trying to compare a real game with balanced engagements, with the Schadenfreude-heavy cheesefest EvE presently is


Roggo II Seuchenvogel wrote:


If you want you can log in onto Rift (partly f2p) and we can play together.^^ Its funny, in Rift I spend 90% of the time with PvP.^^


EvE PvPers are notoriously horrible at twitch PvP: they play tough guys in New Eden because they can "best" others by playing meta mind tricks and exploiting mechanics
It's really less of a game, and more of an online platform for some weird category of online gamers to huff and puff because they exploit the tacit contract between gamers not to go out of their way to be a nuisance to each other.

"You would not be the first "ganker aligned" player to be found to having some issues. Here's a dark secret: there are some in AG who, because of battling gankers, have managed to get to know a few of them, found they had issues, and helped them" HW

Minmatar Republic
#182 - 2017-01-11 02:30:42 UTC
I am one of those 'different' MMO players.

I cannot stand 'being the hero'. It annoys me when they tell me I am the 'anointed one'. Just pisses me off.

Eve Online is the kind of game that repeatedly kicks you in the balls with steel-toed boots and you look up from the ground and thank them for the love tap. It is harsh. When friends ask about Eve Online, I tell them the truth. I don't sugar coat it because they are friends. Several have joined Eve Online even after being warned and none are still here.

And I am perfectly fine with it. This game is also filled with players just like me, who don't like having their hand held and being told that they are going to be the next hero.

OP, sorry to see you go but it seems you definately spent a PLEX if you lost 510m in a scam at 40 days old. That is how it is. You either get back up and learn from your mistake or you turn the switch off.

Your choice...
#183 - 2017-01-11 07:12:07 UTC
Roggo II Seuchenvogel wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
"If someone tries to kill you, try to kill them right back".


Well tanks for response, but this is not my mentality. I only want to fight to kill rats and other NPC mobs. As I wrote, I got "pretty good" in escaping/preventing fights but DSacn doesnt help against cloaked ships. Anyway, the chances that I continue playing are nearly zero. I cant accept how CCP is exploiting beginners/rookies.


EVE is a PVP game. If you want to avoid PVP, then you don't log in. Simple. EVE is apparently not for you, and that's fine, but if you're making the mistake of thinking it has anything that is not somehow related to driving or facilitating PVP, then you don't understand what EVE is meant to be.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Caldari State
#184 - 2017-01-11 12:21:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Qwerty Ernaga
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Roggo II Seuchenvogel wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
"If someone tries to kill you, try to kill them right back".


Well tanks for response, but this is not my mentality. I only want to fight to kill rats and other NPC mobs. As I wrote, I got "pretty good" in escaping/preventing fights but DSacn doesnt help against cloaked ships. Anyway, the chances that I continue playing are nearly zero. I cant accept how CCP is exploiting beginners/rookies.


EVE is a PVP game. If you want to avoid PVP, then you don't log in. Simple. EVE is apparently not for you, and that's fine, but if you're making the mistake of thinking it has anything that is not somehow related to driving or facilitating PVP, then you don't understand what EVE is meant to be.


Responding starts to feel like beating a dead horse, in my particular case from more than one point of view.

OP didn´t complain about PvP at all (the fact he doesn´t want to PvP doesn´t mean PvP in-game was a game breaker for him). He complained about very unreasonable mechanic (let´s call it exploit because no one in their senses would program it that way willingly if they knew the consequences) misused by players to scam. In other games it would be quickly addressed and if someone would exploit it further, they would be banned and players hurt by it would be recompensed. Not in EVE though.

Of course ship exploding is what this game is about and the more the better. If not for other reason than simply because more exploding ships means more people buying PLEX to compensate for the losses and that´s what is this game about. It´s a business.

I really dislike how they tempt you on every step to spend real cash (not to mention misleading advertisement like F2P - where is the small letters disclaimer). This game would be amazing if it was sub only and if multi-login would be forbidden. All of sudden the game would be fair and stuff happening would actually matter (you could not fix things by throwing real life money on them making this game very close if not pay to win). But this way it probably generates more income for CCP and again that´s what it is about (and that´s why EVE even in my EVE peak time was never primary MMO for me, nothing matters, everything can be fixed by real life money except for lost reputation - reputation is like only thing of value in this game altogether**).

Actually after playing for few months I forgot about ISKs. I have calculated everything in Euro. I lost a ship, okay 5, 10, 20 Euro, depends on the ship and fit. I sell this load of ore, okay, I have earned 10 Euro. And so on.***

Just my 2 cents.


** EDIT: Used to be skills as well but we know how that ended.
*** EDIT: It just occurred to me it´s not just me... The press does the same - remember those news articles about BRB?
CODE.
#185 - 2017-01-11 13:12:34 UTC
Hello, I recently tried this game "Farmville" for a while and I thought I write a review about it. since it is along the same line of OPs review I thought I may add it here:

0/10 Farming
I am not really into farming, so I think this aspect of the game is rather boring and just plain repetitive. The whole aspect of farming to make gold to be able to farm even more seams absolutely horrible to me and should be removed.

0/10 Open World PvP
As a manily PvP player myself I have to say this aspect of the game is severely lacking. I don't know what the developer where thinking when they designed the game but it seams they only listen to the farming enthusiasts out there and completely ignore that there are people who are not into farming and want open world PvP instead.

Other negative things:
basically everything I did not already mention

General view on the game:
I think the game is insanely boring and not at all fun like advertised. I don't see the point in playing it if the developer not cater to my wishes and implement better open world PvP and don't force everyone into farming. I think they are losing money because of this and may not be able to feed their family in the future.
#186 - 2017-01-11 13:18:44 UTC
^^ that right there.

It's completely understandable that new players have no clue on what EVE actually is and how it's played, it's just very different from other games. It's completely fine to end up not liking (bits of) EVE and to move on. What I don't understand is how egocentric one must be to play a new game, disagree with its premise and then ask for that game to be changed so you WILL like it. Disagreeing on specific details is understandable, disagreeing with the basics of the game and asking for it to be changed is silly.

EVE is a PVP sandbox that has spaceships in it, if you JUST want spaceships and don't like the PVP sandbox thingy then go play another game that suits you more.
ChaosTheory.
#187 - 2017-01-11 13:41:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Reinhardt Kreiss wrote:
^^ that right there.

It's completely understandable that new players have no clue on what EVE actually is and how it's played, it's just very different from other games. It's completely fine to end up not liking (bits of) EVE and to move on. What I don't understand is how egocentric one must be to play a new game, disagree with its premise and then ask for that game to be changed so you WILL like it. Disagreeing on specific details is understandable, disagreeing with the basics of the game and asking for it to be changed is silly.


I've been saying this about every other post on these forums since 2008 when i started posting Big smile

There are people who have been playing EVE for years who totally despise non-consensual pvp (one of the pillars upon which EVE sits). I've read posts from people who hate it so much they want a "pve server" (stomping all over another pillar, the one shard world). Time and time again I've watched people rage about awoxing and scamming and stealing in a game advertised as a place where it's ok to be the bad guy if you want (I don't want personally, but bad guys are content).

It's just an aspect of human nature. I actually know people IRL who HATE the place they live and have the resources to move, but they won't move because they are determined to make the place they live into "a better place for everyone". This, despite the fact that no one else who lives there agrees with their version of 'better' . Hell, we all realize that the smuck's definition of 'better' actually means "more to my personal liking" lol. This one guy shows up to every neighborhood association meeting and most city councilman's meet and greets with the same "plan" and no matter that not a single other person supports his plan or how many times you tell him to F$%^ off, he comes right back the next month banging the same drum.





Quote:

EVE is a PVP sandbox that has spaceships in it, if you JUST want spaceships and don't like the PVP sandbox thingy then go play another game that suits you more.


Been saying this for as long as well. back then the excuse was "but there are not other space games". Then a bunch of other space games popped up, now the excuse is "but they aren't like EVE"!. I predict that one day someone will make another game set in space that's a lot like EVE, at which time the excuse will morph into "but I have so much invested in EVE!!!".
#188 - 2017-01-11 13:52:15 UTC
Reinhardt Kreiss wrote:
^^ that right there.

It's completely understandable that new players have no clue on what EVE actually is and how it's played, it's just very different from other games. It's completely fine to end up not liking (bits of) EVE and to move on. What I don't understand is how egocentric one must be to play a new game, disagree with its premise and then ask for that game to be changed so you WILL like it. Disagreeing on specific details is understandable, disagreeing with the basics of the game and asking for it to be changed is silly.

EVE is a PVP sandbox that has spaceships in it, if you JUST want spaceships and don't like the PVP sandbox thingy then go play another game that suits you more.

bbbbrrruh the citadel docking game is damn near an exploit and people don't like that in games.
#189 - 2017-01-11 14:17:10 UTC
Qwerty Ernaga wrote:
He complained about very unreasonable mechanic (let´s call it exploit because no one in their senses would program it that way willingly if they knew the consequences) misused by players to scam.


How would you program it? It's your citadel, you pay for it (building costs, operating costs), so you should have full control over who can dock and who cannot, correct? Keep in mind that out in 0.0 space there are wars and enemies, and you wouldn't want your enemies to dock at your citadel and set up a base of operations with spare ships ready to go. So, how would you program it to give the owner full control, as it is fair, but at the same time let any schmuck create a delivery contract and take it with his alt, and be guaranteed to be able to dock at the citadel to "complete" said contract?

Look at the other scams. Contract scams; how can you program the contracts to let players exchange anything and ask for any price, but at the same time prevent overpriced scams? Let players name their contracts what they want, for convenience, but at the same time prevent name trick scams? Let people chat any text they want in the local chat channel, but prevent the spam that's happening in Jita?

Qwerty Ernaga wrote:

Of course ship exploding is what this game is about and the more the better. If not for other reason than simply because more exploding ships means more people buying PLEX to compensate for the losses and that´s what is this game about. It´s a business. I really dislike how they tempt you on every step to spend real cash (not to mention misleading advertisement like F2P - where is the small letters disclaimer). This game would be amazing if it was sub only and if multi-login would be forbidden.


PLEX was added a few years ago; the game operated without PLEX, and without Alpha, just subscriptions and make your ISK mining and doing missions and whatever, for half a decade before that. People still got rich, and stuff was definitely not fair. From m0o's adventures in blockading high-sec, to the various 0.0 and lowsec wars, to gatecamping and suicide ganks and Yulai scams and spam (was Yulai back then, moved to Jita later, not related to PLEX, but because CCP re-configured the stargates to map differently), nothing was fair, everything was as PVP'ey and unfair as it is now. There's no fairness in combat, and this is a combat game. Focus fire, hot drops, gate camp traps, theft, scamming, all were available and used from the start.

You can play without PLEX at all. We spent years to get the billions, you can do so too. PLEX is a shortcut, and just like other games, feel free to take the P2W shortcut, or feel free to NOT.
#190 - 2017-01-11 14:58:04 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
PLEX was added a few years ago; the game operated without PLEX, and without Alpha, just subscriptions and make your ISK mining and doing missions and whatever, for half a decade before that. People still got rich, and stuff was definitely not fair. From m0o's adventures in blockading high-sec, to the various 0.0 and lowsec wars, to gatecamping and suicide ganks and Yulai scams and spam (was Yulai back then, moved to Jita later, not related to PLEX, but because CCP re-configured the stargates to map differently), nothing was fair, everything was as PVP'ey and unfair as it is now. There's no fairness in combat, and this is a combat game. Focus fire, hot drops, gate camp traps, theft, scamming, all were available and used from the start.

You can play without PLEX at all. We spent years to get the billions, you can do so too. PLEX is a shortcut, and just like other games, feel free to take the P2W shortcut, or feel free to NOT.


+100
Goonswarm Federation
#191 - 2017-01-11 16:08:20 UTC
Reinhardt Kreiss wrote:
^^ that right there.

It's completely understandable that new players have no clue on what EVE actually is and how it's played, it's just very different from other games. It's completely fine to end up not liking (bits of) EVE and to move on. What I don't understand is how egocentric one must be to play a new game, disagree with its premise and then ask for that game to be changed so you WILL like it. Disagreeing on specific details is understandable, disagreeing with the basics of the game and asking for it to be changed is silly.

EVE is a PVP sandbox that has spaceships in it, if you JUST want spaceships and don't like the PVP sandbox thingy then go play another game that suits you more.


It's a matter of opinion. Many people are being told to not ***** at things without providing at least a direction of solution. If you don't know the deeps end of things in EVE, it's easy to have an odd opinion about any subject and thinking it could be better if X happened. The feedback, right or wrong, from those new trials kinda need to be seen one way or another. They might be 100% wrong but I would guess many just provide their honest opinion. Hell you could probably do a 40 day trial without really learning the "basic pillar" of the game because you are busy enjoying yourself in ships and getting lost in the vast expanse of space.
Caldari State
#192 - 2017-01-11 18:18:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Qwerty Ernaga
Memphis Baas wrote:
1) How would you program it?

2) Look at the other scams. Contract scams; how can you program the contracts to let players exchange anything and ask for any price, but at the same time prevent overpriced scams? Let players name their contracts what they want, for convenience, but at the same time prevent name trick scams? Let people chat any text they want in the local chat channel, but prevent the spam that's happening in Jita?

3) PLEX was added a few years ago; the game operated without PLEX, and without Alpha, just subscriptions and make your ISK mining and doing missions and whatever, for half a decade before that. People still got rich, and stuff was definitely not fair.

4) You can play without PLEX at all. We spent years to get the billions, you can do so too. PLEX is a shortcut, and just like other games, feel free to take the P2W shortcut, or feel free to NOT.


Hello!

1) Solutions? I´m honored *bows*. Well what I can come up with this very second is this - if you deny landing rights as describbed in previous posts, your contract destination automatically changes to NPC station closest to (you can pick) either final destination or starting destination. If the cargo wasn´t picked yet, contract is automatically cancelled.

2) I don´t mind scams that are not connected with obvious exploits (and which take basically zero effort to do). I was never scammed in those two years I played btw. I was panically afraid of anything but official market or Red Frog. Blink I consider said situation to be a misuse of exploit (not intended as game mechanic). And I would certainly never make money by hauling (too much costs and risks, too little rewards, too much flying around with a snail ship) - each to his own though, respect to haulers.

3) I´m not here to fix the past. Not my fault the game was broken (botting never ending ice fleets etc.). I can offer you solution though. Finally finish version 1.0 of the game and after you finish this decently polished product, make a wipe and let everyone start over in fair conditions. All the vets repeat over and over skills not matter anyway. And as it sounds by your point 4, PLEX is not that important either.

4) Yes you can P2W but you don´t have to. But this would be acceptable in single player game, not in MMO where people are supposed to compete.

Have a good day Smile

Your friendly neigborhood Nobody.


BTW: I´m not calling for radical game changes, I´m just discussing/debating using my prepaid account until the discussion stops being interesting. So far it is. Smile
#193 - 2017-01-11 20:22:03 UTC
Qwerty Ernaga wrote:

1) Solutions? I´m honored *bows*. Well what I can come up with this very second is this - if you deny landing rights as describbed in previous posts, your contract destination automatically changes to NPC station closest to (you can pick) either final destination or starting destination. If the cargo wasn´t picked yet, contract is automatically cancelled.

3) I´m not here to fix the past. Not my fault the game was broken (botting never ending ice fleets etc.). I can offer you solution though. Finally finish version 1.0 of the game and after you finish this decently polished product, make a wipe and let everyone start over in fair conditions. All the vets repeat over and over skills not matter anyway. And as it sounds by your point 4, PLEX is not that important either.

BTW: I´m not calling for radical game changes, I´m just discussing/debating using my prepaid account until the discussion stops being interesting. So far it is. Smile



1. No, you don't understand the system:

- Player A has the citadel and can decide who can dock. He gives access to a number of friends, a number of corps, and a number of random alliances that he likes.

- Player B makes a PUBLIC contract for someone to move his junk to this citadel. Contract can be picked up by anyone. Player B doesn't know who's going to pick up his contract (when he sets it up) and/or if they have access to the citadel in question. Player B hopes that whoever picks up his contract will be smart enough to check the citadel access first.

- Player C sees a random courier contract and picks it up. Player C has done 15 courier contracts yesterday and wants to continue making money. The contract system gives him a warning that the destination MAY be inaccessible.

Per your solution, Player A or Player C would have the power to change Player B's contracts, depending on when you want the contract to be redirrected or nulled. They shouldn't have that power. They're Player B's contracts, nobody else should have the power to alter them. Being able to alter someone else's contracts can lead to all sorts of new scams, and we'll be wicked enough to find them all.



3. CCP will lose a lot of players, veterans and newbies alike, if they wipe out everyone's stuff and just presents the current game tabula rasa. Basic marketing tells them never to do this. The only way to wipe the slate clean is to code a NEW, improved EVE with better graphics or whatever, and offer that as a new game, then retire this one. Maybe they'll do a VR version, who knows. Whatever the case, wiping out everyone's stuff and asking them to start from scratch will lead to bankruptcy for them.

And let's look at what would happen, anyway, because there is a precedent with the China server opening. It opened some time after the main server, so there were plenty of veterans trained on TQ who suddenly got access to a blank server.

CCP cannot wipe out Goonswarm's, Pandemic Legion's, TEST's, BNI's, and other large or small corporations' and alliances' websites, voice comms, and organization. At server opening, all of them will call alarm clock ops to land-rush all the available space and all the asteroids and rats and missions and moons and planetary PI, all sources of income, and pool the resources of 5000 - 40,000 members together to get a leg up on the market, production lines, and best resources.

You're not going to be able to compete with that. Just like you can't compete, now, with CCP adding a new ship or citadel in-game. They add a bunch of blueprints from pirate factions out in 0.0 or even in the Jita market and guess who has access? Guess who has the manufacturing capabilities of 5,000 - 40,000 characters to be able to produce the tons and tons of advanced materials and components that require moon goo, PI goo, drops from wormholes, and other rare stuff?

With a new server you are going to be shut off even faster than now.


4. Yes you're asking for radical game changes. "Wipe the server", "remove scams from the game."

5. My rant is pointless. You haven't thought of all the ramifications of what you're asking, and actually every few months we have a newbie or two proposing that CCP wipe the servers, and we have to repeat ourselves to explain why that can't happen. Some veterans will take the time and be patient, others will just flame you. In either case, you don't like the game and you're out.

So let's drop it, and just good luck with whatever you do.
Agony Empire
#194 - 2017-01-11 23:41:27 UTC

There is nothing wrong with a courier scam. The OP simply failed to realize that the owners of a station may change docking rights at any time. Now he knows, and he'll never forget. That's the tough love EVE is so known for. I really don't see any reason this should be changed. I see no reason he should be refunded. And frankly, if that loss is too much to handle, then he should move on to another game. Because after playing for almost a decade, I can tell you setbacks are simply part of the game, and they will happen again and again.

As for the "not loving PvP": I wish he'd actually taken a roam with a PvP group. Something like Affirmative's newbie roams, where he can experience PvP in a form that's fairly hard to get on your own.
#195 - 2017-01-12 01:31:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Wanda Fayne
I think I'll get a citadel up in a busy mission system. Then have fun switching the clone bay on and off and routinely destroying all the pods and implants there.

Imagine getting to 'pod' all those pilots and never even undock.
Sweet!

Hmmm, what other mayhem can I create with these wonderful new mechanics...

edits
PLEX contracts in an undockable station! Then charge them for access rights.
Or wait and see who docks with a ship and logs out, then lock them out too. More hostage fees.

your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic

-Lan Wang-

-

Locator Agents cease to function on Offline Players:

Caldari State
#196 - 2017-01-12 06:00:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Qwerty Ernaga
Memphis Baas wrote:
So let's drop it, and just good luck with whatever you do.


I was about to write some long thoughtful and complicated answer but then I have noticed your last sentence and it makes a lot of sense, so I won´t.

I will just say this - I do not demand or want or expect any in-game change, I was really just discussing things. If not for any other reason then because I made very very sure (by deleting my 2000 Euro investment) that I will never ever return back to active playing.

I still like to follow the game though, watch the o7 show, read the forums once in a while; same like I do with some other past "habits" like for example Planeshift.

I wish you good luck as well, both in EVE and out of it! And I know it´s bit late but have a great year 2017. Smile

Nobody
#197 - 2017-01-12 13:58:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Neuntausend wrote:
The only thing Rift has over Eve is cleavage and boob-windows on purple women. P

That's not really fair, Eve can have plenty of nice cleavage Pirate (well not really but the boobage is real)

Though I'm more of an armored amazon kind of guy myself.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

#198 - 2017-01-12 16:08:09 UTC
Roggo II Seuchenvogel wrote:




Probably the most realistic summary of the game i've seen from another player. No real content. What else would you expect from Questing/Missioning/PVE. Cheesy, low-key, crap gameplay quality. And extremely redundant.

It's kind of to be expected that trading is something that's fully realized in the game, only because all it takes is the byproduct of player-to-player interactions to make it possible. The only real thing CCP brought to the table in that regard is just giving us some nice tools to use to monitor data and all trading activities.

But as for the rest of the pathetic excuse for gameplay? Pure diarrhea. And it's interesting how you brought up support. They do take a long time to respond sometimes, but... i won't penalize support for that. One time, i lost two Zephyrs mysteriously and petitioned to get them back. In ended with the GM saying: "They're not very expensive, just purchase them." LOL! Apparently, server logs couldn't show how two ships literally just vanished from my inventory. And on ANOTHER occasion, something even more intriguing happened. I lost a ship due to the power going out in my entire neighborhood. The GM responded very quickly. I think it was the next day. I log in to check the status of the petition, and the first thing i noticed was my ship in the station i was currently in. I open the support ticket and the GM says that he reviewed logs and noticed that something was amiss. But basically concluded with "this doesn't happen every time. Consider yourself lucky." DA PHUQ?!

If they have the means to determine what happened in such situations, then what's the problem? And i actually responded again, asking exactly what they meant. I got the most incoherent answer i've ever read.
ChaosTheory.
#199 - 2017-01-12 16:17:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Jotunspor wrote:
Roggo II Seuchenvogel wrote:




Probably the most realistic summary of the game i've seen from another player. No real content. What else would you expect from Questing/Missioning/PVE. Cheesy, low-key, crap gameplay quality. And extremely redundant.

It's kind of to be expected that trading is something that's fully realized in the game, only because all it takes is the byproduct of player-to-player interactions to make it possible. The only real thing CCP brought to the table in that regard is just giving us some nice tools to use to monitor data and all trading activities.

But as for the rest of the pathetic excuse for gameplay? Pure diarrhea. And it's interesting how you brought up support. They do take a long time to respond sometimes, but... i won't penalize support for that. One time, i lost two Zephyrs mysteriously and petitioned to get them back. In ended with the GM saying: "They're not very expensive, just purchase them." LOL! Apparently, server logs couldn't show how two ships literally just vanished from my inventory. And on ANOTHER occasion, something even more intriguing happened. I lost a ship due to the power going out in my entire neighborhood. The GM responded very quickly. I think it was the next day. I log in to check the status of the petition, and the first thing i noticed was my ship in the station i was currently in. I open the support ticket and the GM says that he reviewed logs and noticed that something was amiss. But basically concluded with "this doesn't happen every time. Consider yourself lucky." DA PHUQ?!

If they have the means to determine what happened in such situations, then what's the problem? And i actually responded again, asking exactly what they meant. I got the most incoherent answer i've ever read.


If you are having such a bad time with the game and think it's gameplay is 'diarrhea', Why are you playing? If you are playing, and if you aren't why are you posting?

Yea I ask this question a lot and never really get an answer, I understand that some people just live to complain but i'm honestly curious. It's not like someone is putting a gun to someone's head and saying "play EVE or die"...
#200 - 2017-01-12 16:28:48 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

If you are playing, and if you aren't why are you posting.

I wouldn't expect you to understand a non-upvote message board model.
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