Skill Discussions

 
 

New player, confused on what to train

Author
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2017-01-12 06:10:56 UTC  |  Edited by: R-0-B-0-C-O-P
Hey everyone I'm a new player looking to get set on a good training path. I've done the military, advanced military, and exploration career mission chains and am now currently doing the SOE arc as is recommended to new players. I've done a LOT of reading prior to getting this game and one thing that a lot of people say is that training skills and doing it right is very important. So I have some questions:

- How important is it to train core and support skills to 5? I ask this because a lot of people don't recommend training a lot of skills to 5 initially. I'm looking to min-max my training to get the most out of it.

- Do you guys have a list of skills that will be good for almost every ship and situation that I can plug in?

Thanks for the assistance

edit: Also, when should I use a remap? I have 2 bonus remaps available, and I see that "23i 21m 21p 17w 17c" was recommended in another thread for the first year of training.
#2 - 2017-01-12 06:45:44 UTC
Let Uncle Meph tell you a little story.....

Back when I were a freshfaced keen newbro, all of two and a half years ago, EVE resembled a Game Of Drones and the mighty Ishtar reigned supreme across the galaxy. The Ishtar was the line ship of several PvP fleet doctrines and had added flexibility being able to clear out 0.0 combat sites while the pilot was completely AFK (known rather unimaginatively as the AFK'tar or ISK'tar fit).

Great hoards of players told me to rush train into an Ishtar. Low armour/shield/navigation/drones/etc skills would all be covered by this amazingly overpowered hull. So, I did up a skillqueue and figured out how long it would take.

Dissenting voices came from my friends, who advised me to work on my core skills first. High Speed Man V, Cap Systems Op V, Afterburner V, Thermodynamics V. Skills that help out every hull I fly.

I'm glad I listened to my friends. Around the time my rush-train to said Ishtar would have finished, CCP swung the nerfbat hard for the final time. (As an aside, I finished Minmatar Tac Destroyer V the day before the nerf was announced).


Now that's out of the way, do yourself a favour and forget about remapping for a little while. It's a confusing road to go down while newbros have the joyful climb up Mount Core Skills to make. As a general rule, you remap when you have a 12 month skillplan laid out in a tool like EVEMon.

The 'core' skills are mostly found under the Navigation and Engineering tabs.

Under Engineering, there's the fitting skills to give your ship more Powergrid, CPU and the super important Capacitor skills to increase cap pool and regeneration.

Navigation makes you go faster, turn quicker and use less cap while doing it.

These are skills that will affect every ship you fly and time spent in them is never time wasted.

Drones V is highly recommended and Light Drones V is a quickish train for a decent return (T2 drones are far more widely available and usually much cheaper than Faction). For mediums, heavies and Sentry drones, skilled to IV and navy drones is fine for most circumstances.

Armour, Shield, Missiles, Gunnery and Ship skills are a far more personal choice, depending on what you enjoy flying and what you wish to do.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

#3 - 2017-01-12 10:00:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregorius Goldstein
R-0-B-0-C-O-P wrote:
Hey everyone I'm a new player looking to get set on a good training path. I've done the military, advanced military, and exploration career mission chains and am now currently doing the SOE arc as is recommended to new players. I've done a LOT of reading prior to getting this game and one thing that a lot of people say is that training skills and doing it right is very important. So I have some questions:

- How important is it to train core and support skills to 5? I ask this because a lot of people don't recommend training a lot of skills to 5 initially. I'm looking to min-max my training to get the most out of it.

- Do you guys have a list of skills that will be good for almost every ship and situation that I can plug in?

Thanks for the assistance

edit: Also, when should I use a remap? I have 2 bonus remaps available, and I see that "23i 21m 21p 17w 17c" was recommended in another thread for the first year of training.


What I can tell you is "don't remap yet". Because a few hours or days less training time are not worth the options you would lose by an early remap. What I did: Trained targeting, shield, armor, engineering, navigation and drones to IV on my main while I tested the T1 ships up to cruiser on four Alpha accounts I kickstarted with ISK from my main. (I sold some skins and clothes from the starter pack.)

I changed my opionion on stuff so many times that I am glad I didn't rule out anything from start.
If you are very sure you won't do any of the few CHA related things and have an idea what ships/race you like most (perhaps from playing alpha clones) you can make a Skillplan for that and optimize a INT/PER remap with a third party tool. I trained trading and social skills to III before the remap for easier loot selling and better rewards on missions. (Glad I didn't spend more because missons became boring to me very fast and trading is to much 0.1 ISK games for me.)
#4 - 2017-01-12 12:46:20 UTC
The 'core' skills for me are the powergrid, cpu, capacitor, ship agility and propulsion. Overall, these skills affect most of the ships and fitting modules will be easier because of this.

Next would be HP and resists skills, then the damage increasing ones.

All the while you're skilling into the ship hull of choice, and I would recommend to start with smaller hulls cause they're cheap, fast (very important), and they have a wide selection (frigates and cruisers). It's one of the oft repeated tip in eve: bigger ships/guns doesn't mean its better.

Core skill remap is Int/Mem, which covers Navigation, Engineering, Armor, Shields, Targetting, Neural Enhancement and Rigging (among other subsets). Per/Wil is for Spaceship command, gunnery and missiles, the ship and dps remap (Drones is weird with Mem/Per)

So as you can see the choices are Int/Mem and Per/Will, which is why we usually don't encourage new players to remap immediately so you can have a good spread/rate for the low time requirement skills. Pick those low hanging fruits first then remap (by the time, mayhaps you have already a +4/+5 implants on the int/mem or per/wil slots)

Archiver, Software Developer and Data Slave

Current Project Status: Harvesting Killboards

#5 - 2017-01-12 15:20:03 UTC
Fitting skills are incredibly important. I recommend looking at the T2 variants of common modules and skilling to those. Look at getting into a BC with T2 modules. Don't worry about BSes yet, a well fit BC will go a long ways.
#6 - 2017-01-13 05:34:05 UTC
One of the things I recommend is to download EveMon, and make a few skill plans in there. It's a great app, and you will start to see that most plans have a lot of the same skills in them. Kind of an indicator that these skills are universal in nature.

Eve is a marathon, not a sprint. You never need to make rash changes in skilling, without thinking them through for a few days. Remaps are valuable. Don't waste them.

For a first year, many of your skills will need to train to III or IV, and many of your V's will be fast training skills. (Rank 1's and 2's.)
A 4 or 8 day skill is not that long, in comparison to the life of EVE as a whole. And shaving a day off of it is not a huge savings.
Remaps become more important when you can actually put a full, 1 year plan with the same attributes, into action.

If the attributes you referenced are Tau's set up, yes it is a great all around attribute plan.

look into implants if you like training faster. +3's are affordable, even if you lose a few. +4's are safe for most experienced PvP pilots. +4's are also very safe (generally) for miners, manufacturers, traders, missioners.
There are also jump clones to help you be selective when you risk them.
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2017-01-13 05:47:42 UTC
Thank you everyone for the tips and advice. It's been a lot of help and have been glad to see such helpful people here.
#8 - 2017-01-13 09:24:05 UTC
R-0-B-0-C-O-P wrote:
Thank you everyone for the tips and advice. It's been a lot of help and have been glad to see such helpful people here.


You are welcome. Just remember we might shot you anyway P
#9 - 2017-01-18 07:17:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrew Indy
Chelian Dendrotoxin wrote:
Fitting skills are incredibly important. I recommend looking at the T2 variants of common modules and skilling to those. Look at getting into a BC with T2 modules. Don't worry about BSes yet, a well fit BC will go a long ways.


+1, Unlocking T2 mods often gives you a double or triple bonus (the skill bonus, the Mod bonus and for weapons the Ammo bonus as well)

I would also recommend training all applicable skills (depending on what you want to do) to 3 or 4 before you start going down the Lvl5 road. Not only can you train several lvl3/4 skills in the time it takes for a Lvl5 but it also makes changing your mind less painful (nothing like training Mining 5 to only change to combat a few days later)
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2017-01-19 23:08:11 UTC
Gregorius Goldstein wrote:
R-0-B-0-C-O-P wrote:
Thank you everyone for the tips and advice. It's been a lot of help and have been glad to see such helpful people here.


You are welcome. Just remember we might shot you anyway P

Not if I shoot you first!
#11 - 2017-01-20 09:40:29 UTC
R-0-B-0-C-O-P wrote:
Gregorius Goldstein wrote:
R-0-B-0-C-O-P wrote:
Thank you everyone for the tips and advice. It's been a lot of help and have been glad to see such helpful people here.


You are welcome. Just remember we might shot you anyway P

Not if I shoot you first!


That's the spirit. And have fun in Karmafleet, they should be able to answer all your further training questions in channels.
Working Stiffs
#12 - 2017-01-20 19:39:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
"I wish I could kite better." - train range, targeting, and navigation skills.

"It takes me forever to kill anything." - Train weapon, weapon support, and ship skills.

"I can't hit the broad side of a barn." - Train weapon support, and perhaps some EWAR skills.

"My cruiser gets overwhelmed by frigates, and I hate spider drones." - Train drone skills.

"The capacitor is empty." - Train capacitor skills.

"I explode so easily." - Train tanking skills, and perhaps some navigation skills.

I recommend training stuff to level 2 to start, and later level 3 for competency. If you find the skill helpful, train it to level 4. If you find the skill vital to what you do, train it to level 5. Keep in mind that it takes 17% of the time of training level 5 to train levels 1 thru 4 which give 80% of the benefit.
Executive Outcomes
#13 - 2017-01-22 15:23:21 UTC
Training core skills to V is always a good investment, but whether it's required....depends on what you are doing.

In general the PvE in this game is quite easy and you don't need a perfectly fit ship nor max skills to succeed. There is however, a point of diminishing returns for flying larger/more advanced ships with poor skills. As you get into bigger and more advanced ships fitting becomes tighter, and you need to step up your game in fittings to squeeze the most out of those hulls.
It's often the case that you are better off staying in a smaller ship and improving your skills than jumping up to the next class of ship right away. This is usually a problem for mission runners who can have access to L4 mission so quickly that they are trying to fly a battleship with very low skills. In most cases you are probably better off flying your L3 ship and picking and choosing L4 missions.

Also remember you could shoot for a more advanced smaller hull, such as a HAC or T3 cruiser instead of moving up in hull class. Most any PvE in Eve is trivially easy for a T3 cruiser.

For PvP....in a large fleet sheer numbers and the presence of logi may make up for skill shortcomings-- but you may not even be able to fit a ship that conforms to any sort of doctrine your corp is using.
Solo....win and loss often comes down to tiny margins. Even among those guys you see doing epic solo PvP on YouTube- they often barely survive a battle, limping home in structure. For them those tiny margins make or break the engagement. 3% of this or 5% of that may not sound like much when facing a month of training time to get it to V...but those little percentages add up to an advantage, and you need every single advantage when flying alone.

The Engineering and Navigation trees are critical skills that will affect every ship you undock, regardless of what it does. These are, in my opinion, the 'must have at V' skills. Most are fairly short training investments in the grand scheme of things. Believe me, once you have half a decade of playing Eve...you'll look back at 3 weeks training time as 'the good old days' when your current queue is laid out for the next six months, and only has four or five skills lined up.
Forum Jump