EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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So I guess I need friends as an Alpha?

Author
Triumvirate.
#21 - 2017-02-17 12:31:31 UTC
Alpha/Omega makes no difference

Friends is good
#22 - 2017-02-17 15:21:17 UTC
Hakawai wrote:
.....ridiculously difficult for groups of low-SP highsec players......


get out of hisec. asap.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

#23 - 2017-02-17 15:22:55 UTC
Both alphas and omegas are equally capable of taking out some frigates and cruisers, come on now children.
Caldari State
#24 - 2017-02-17 16:22:54 UTC
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
Hakawai wrote:
.....ridiculously difficult for groups of low-SP highsec players......

get out of hisec. asap.

This is just a fantasy solution. It's completely impractical for a typical new player.

Someone with the same EVE experience, resources and good contacts in a nullsec Corp can do it easily of course, but that that's not a serious option for the majority of new players.

The sad thing is that if it it wasn't for the old-timers that (directly or indirectly - mostly indirectly) making the startup threshold so high, EVE would be a much better game for everyone - even the fun-vampires. Instead it's only the tiny minority that manage, through luck or contacts, to apply your "magic wand" that are likely to stay. The game is relatively boring for everyone else.
#25 - 2017-02-17 16:42:11 UTC
Hakawai wrote:
I think that The game is relatively boring for everyone else.
FTFY

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Caldari State
#26 - 2017-02-17 17:28:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakawai
-> Reply to Jonah Gravenstein removed - too far off topic.

My bad - I reacted as though this was the EVE General Discussion Forum.
#27 - 2017-02-17 17:36:25 UTC
Hakawai wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Hakawai wrote:
I think that The game is relatively boring for everyone else.
FTFY

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar

Perhaps you'll like to tell me about all the fun opportunities for new players who stay in highsec?

But leave out all the stuff that doesn't actually work (like manufacturing and high-payout sites where the old-timers take most of the loot). Give me an honest list that excludes nullsec and all the activities regularly used in these very forums to justify the claims that players should not stay in highsec.


If you get bored in highsec, go somewhere else,
Caldari State
#28 - 2017-02-17 17:41:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakawai
@ Wolfgang Jannesen

I'm going to remove the post you quoted. This isn't the right place for a response to my question in the post you quoted, nor for me to reply to your response.

I might save it for a later thread in "General Discussion".
#29 - 2017-02-18 05:23:37 UTC
Try somewhere less crowded. In null i see systems that are empty and have 10 of the gala sites in them. Many times I can do them all with no-one coming in system during that time.
#30 - 2017-02-18 07:22:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Yebo Lakatosh
Hakawai wrote:
Someone with the same EVE experience, resources and good contacts in a nullsec Corp can do it easily of course, but that that's not a serious option for the majority of new players.
Experience can be gained at a very rapid rate from, guides, videos or from talking to people.
There are more and better resources out of highsec.
Nullesc corps have diplomats, recruiters, even newbro-friendly training wings.

-Nothing- stops a new player from moving to 0.0, except maybe a misconception that it would take X amount of SP or ISK. Or maybe a decation to keep solo out of principle, and only learning from very own losees. That'll show them!


I often feel you could already be a Queen of a Constellation if you dedicated third of the energy you spend on composing sophisticated complaints about your percieved EvE-problems to actually solving them.

EDIT:
Hakawai wrote:
My bad - I reacted as though this was the EVE General Discussion Forum.
Ooops, you are right - same here. Disregard me.

They say Alpha clones are only for trying stuff. I say it's just the Hard Mode.

Caldari State
#31 - 2017-02-18 08:06:39 UTC
@ Yebo Lakatosh

On one hand I was thinking of our earlier exchange (in a different thread) when I wrote the text you quoted.

On the other, you've done that stupid "sorry / not sorry" style of thing both times you've you've reacted to one of my posts. It's the second good (but not certain) indicator that you're "economical with the truth" from only three of your posts (all I've read).

Of course you may post whatever you like here (or at least I don't set the rules :) but don't count on my reading anything else you write
#32 - 2017-02-18 08:39:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Yebo Lakatosh
Hakawai wrote:
but don't count on my reading anything else you write

Well, discrditing the source of an opinion is of course a good final solution in order to avoid considering a point of view other than our own. Hope this dedication will get you far! P

To navigate back onto topic: Yes, you need friends out there. Otherwise you'll only hear your own voice.

They say Alpha clones are only for trying stuff. I say it's just the Hard Mode.

#33 - 2017-02-18 08:41:07 UTC
doublepost, pls delete

They say Alpha clones are only for trying stuff. I say it's just the Hard Mode.

Unspoken Alliance.
#34 - 2017-02-21 04:49:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Cara Forelli
Hakawai wrote:
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
Hakawai wrote:
.....ridiculously difficult for groups of low-SP highsec players......

get out of hisec. asap.

This is just a fantasy solution. It's completely impractical for a typical new player.

It certainly isn't. There's no reason a new player can't move to low-sec in their first week. I moved straight into wormhole space before I could fly a cruiser and since then lived in low and null. All it takes is finding the right group to help you learn - as the OP puts it, finding friends. There are plenty of newbro-friendly and even alpha-friendly null sec alliances.

What's the risk? New players have accumulated nothing and thus have nothing to lose!

We have corps and alliances built-in to the game to facilitate social play....use them! There's a good sticky in this forum section on how to find the right corp for you.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

Caldari State
#35 - 2017-02-21 07:19:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakawai
Cara Forelli wrote:
Hakawai wrote:
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
Hakawai wrote:
.....ridiculously difficult for groups of low-SP highsec players......

get out of hisec. asap.

This is just a fantasy solution. It's completely impractical for a typical new player.

It certainly isn't. There's no reason a new player can't move to low-sec in their first week. I moved straight into wormhole space before I could fly a cruiser and since then lived in low and null. All it takes is finding the right group to help you learn - as the OP puts it, finding friends. There are plenty of newbro-friendly and even alpha-friendly null sec alliances.

What's the risk? New players have accumulated nothing and thus have nothing to lose!

We have corps and alliances built-in to the game to facilitate social play....use them! There's a good sticky in this forum section on how to find the right corp for you.

What you describe is possible of course, but the claim "there are lots of nice Corps in nullsec who'll take you in, help you learn, and provide you with resources and/or the means to earn easy ISK in the process" is the "'Hello Kitty' in nullsec" fallacy.

Even if it was generally true, it wouldn't look like a good plan to the majority of new players.
#36 - 2017-02-21 09:30:25 UTC
Hakawai wrote:
What you describe is possible of course, but the claim "there' are lots of nice Corps in nullsec who'll take you in, help you learn, and provide you with resources and/or the means to earn easy ISK in the process" is the 'Hello Kitty' in nullsec" fallacy.
May I ask you how many Corporations you did try to join to get turned down? So I know what sample you are basing your assumption on?

Not that I wanna' debate on that one. The fact that I only run into corps run by lovely people is not a basis to make a claim, as I inspected less then half a dozen closely. I'm ready to ignore the countless ads along the lines of "hey newbro, move out to us, we have skillbooks, ship replacement, safe sov grinding space, loot buy program and we fleet up for everything". They probably only want to pop your noobship. P(no they aren't)

Hakawai wrote:
Even if it was generally true, it wouldn't look like a good plan to the majority of new players.
Do you have statistics, or that's another claim based on a very limited sample? (my guess would be a sample of one + ragequit posts)

But I have to agree. Moving out of HS looks intimidating, and I can only imagine how daunting could it be to achieve that alone. But if someone decides to solo-mine in a ventrue for months instead of examining the options and contacting experienced people and corps, I can only blame the player who picked the route of the least resistance. Not even that, but the one requires the least effort. Composing EvE mails and talking on mic is hard work.


I'd drop this one Hakawai if I were you. When debating fun-vampirism, you could at least assume a moral high-ground (assuming morals apply to videogames). But taking a stance against making friends and connections in order to learn and earn at a rapid rate in a multiplayer game where corps and alliances are so important is just silly.

Though maybe I just misudnerstood you in this matter, and it'll take a few more pages before we start to grasp what are you implying / suggesting here.

They say Alpha clones are only for trying stuff. I say it's just the Hard Mode.

Unspoken Alliance.
#37 - 2017-02-21 16:58:19 UTC
Hakawai wrote:
Even if it was generally true, it wouldn't look like a good plan to the majority of new players.

That's why we're here. To tell them otherwise. I've been helping new players into the game for years and probably still will be long after you've rage quit because you can't escape your perception of how the game should be, and enjoy the reality of how it is.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

Caldari State
#38 - 2017-02-22 05:24:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakawai
Cara Forelli wrote:
Hakawai wrote:
Even if it was generally true, it wouldn't look like a good plan to the majority of new players.

That's why we're here. To tell them otherwise. I've been helping new players into the game for years and probably still will be long after you've rage quit because you can't escape your perception of how the game should be, and enjoy the reality of how it is.

Here\s a quote related to the "Rookie income gap" from a thread in "General Discussion":
Ptraci wrote:
Hakawai wrote:
notably being protected and actively helped by a territory-owning nullsec Corp,

I laughed when I read this.

Let's get this straight: any corp that "owns" sov in nullsec rents it out. They really don't care what happens to their renters. Do not expect NC. or someone to come save you. Ever.

Any corp that is "renting" sov in nullsec is too weak/disorganized to save you. Do not expect them to come save you, ever.

In nullsec you are pretty much on your own unless you're in a large alliance, in which case you are just another body in a fleet because god forbid you get caught mining/ratting during a CTA... besides, no large alliance would be interested in a 5 million SP toon with no relevant skills - except for maybe BRAVE.

The quote from my post is something I wrote pointing out that there are alternatives to the easiest approach to dealing with the "new player income gap".

The first part of the response is just a deliberate misinterpretation based on overly strict interpretation of what I said. it's not relevant here.

The overall message is the more usual "non-'Hello Kitty in space'" view of nullsec. Interestingly there were no posts providing a dissenting view on the post's content. Probably because it's true enough, though it's not the full picture either.


A lot of new players get caught in the income gap. When they're actually in it, advice that doesn't take account of a "downside risk" they've been told exists isn't much use.

They get a mixed message: one apparently honest and helpful old-timer says "XXX is low-risk and leads to a positive outcome", and another old-timer says "XXX can lead to a positive outcome, but it's a low-probability result with a high probability of a lot of wasted time and consumption of ISK". Which player is lying? Or perhaps they're both lying? Does the new player want to try it out, and find themselves doomed to hours of boring highsec Venture mining to rebuild their ISK bank balance?

The uncertainty aspect of the information discourages uncertain (riskier) activities. As I said (approximately) earlier: "a suggestion can be relevant, accurate, and useful, and still not look like a good plan to a new(ish) player".
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