EVE General Discussion

 
 

Alphas and F2P Have Failed

Author
#441 - 2017-03-20 20:07:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Maximillian Bonaparte wrote:
Eve may be in a rut.

I am not convinced it is dieing right now.

http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

However it could be true that Alpha clones are not doing anything for the growth of the game.

Alpha's are restricted to never being more than an alpha unless they pay...so they have no great goals to accomplish or look forward to.

It might do better if there is a Beta clone option, and perhaps a Ceta clone option (where you pay a samller subscription), and then the full Omega option (monthly subscription).


Eve is in a decline not a death throe, nothing to say it can't be reversed, etc. but its pretty obvious by any objective measurement that since 2013 the trend is downwards and measures have only produced spikes and done nothing to reverse the trend just delay it.

I think it is worth hanging out in a starter system sometime see what is going on and the disconnects in some of the early parts of the game and what old timers have come to expect/potential for someone with more experience - some of the conversations when I came back to see what the alpha stuff was about was interesting to me.

Also looking at some of the posts above I think some don't realise that some people want to get involved with other players but don't want to jump into something structured/corporation atleast not initially and there is a bit of a gap there.
#442 - 2017-03-20 20:13:20 UTC
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Is there ANYTHING in between?

You are either in a corp. or you are a nogood loser with no future in Eve.

I simply dont want to be told what, when, where.

Im a family man who cant play on a regular basis and absolutely
not sit here and shout stupid things in to a microphone.


The microphone thing is a bigger deal than many realize.

Those of us who are in the older gamer demographic (35+) where games didn't involve voice coms when we started playing and now have families... dealing with comms is something that is not as easy to accept as many want it to be.

When my main was looking for a corp after returning I put up the fact I wanted to get out of high sec but not be in a corp that required voice comms. I literally got 30 messages from corps recruiting telling me I was an idiot for not wanting to use a microphone.

I ended up joining one that was okay with not having me on voice comms... but even with that I can't take part in a lot of alliance activities because of that.

I think many fail to realize how many of us people who were around at the dawn of MMO's are still around but can only play for a few hours each night with the sound turned off (to not wake up a spouse or child). I know it's a futile wish... but i do wish the voice comm thing wasn't such a central part of group play on most MMO's (especially eve).
Goonswarm Federation
#443 - 2017-03-20 20:34:55 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Is there ANYTHING in between?

You are either in a corp. or you are a nogood loser with no future in Eve.

I simply dont want to be told what, when, where.

Im a family man who cant play on a regular basis and absolutely
not sit here and shout stupid things in to a microphone.


Every places I played the game in didn't require to play on a regular basis or shouting stupid things in a microphone.

I have to admit no never having joined a WH corp or a HS mercenary one so maybe those do require that...


Pretty much the same. In some instances if I was online the expectation was to be in fleets, but that was limited to sov level warfare. If you don't want that don't join up with sov holders.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Goonswarm Federation
#444 - 2017-03-20 20:37:40 UTC
Scialt wrote:
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Is there ANYTHING in between?

You are either in a corp. or you are a nogood loser with no future in Eve.

I simply dont want to be told what, when, where.

Im a family man who cant play on a regular basis and absolutely
not sit here and shout stupid things in to a microphone.


The microphone thing is a bigger deal than many realize.

Those of us who are in the older gamer demographic (35+) where games didn't involve voice coms when we started playing and now have families... dealing with comms is something that is not as easy to accept as many want it to be.

When my main was looking for a corp after returning I put up the fact I wanted to get out of high sec but not be in a corp that required voice comms. I literally got 30 messages from corps recruiting telling me I was an idiot for not wanting to use a microphone.

I ended up joining one that was okay with not having me on voice comms... but even with that I can't take part in a lot of alliance activities because of that.

I think many fail to realize how many of us people who were around at the dawn of MMO's are still around but can only play for a few hours each night with the sound turned off (to not wake up a spouse or child). I know it's a futile wish... but i do wish the voice comm thing wasn't such a central part of group play on most MMO's (especially eve).


I have been in sov holding alliances for a big chunk of the years I've been playing and unless you are an FC or somebody "important" in the alliance talking on comms was not that common. I would often not talk because others in the house were asleep...was hardly an issue. And if listening to the FC is s problem: headsets people...headsets.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

#445 - 2017-03-20 20:47:43 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Scialt wrote:
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Is there ANYTHING in between?

You are either in a corp. or you are a nogood loser with no future in Eve.

I simply dont want to be told what, when, where.

Im a family man who cant play on a regular basis and absolutely
not sit here and shout stupid things in to a microphone.


The microphone thing is a bigger deal than many realize.

Those of us who are in the older gamer demographic (35+) where games didn't involve voice coms when we started playing and now have families... dealing with comms is something that is not as easy to accept as many want it to be.

When my main was looking for a corp after returning I put up the fact I wanted to get out of high sec but not be in a corp that required voice comms. I literally got 30 messages from corps recruiting telling me I was an idiot for not wanting to use a microphone.

I ended up joining one that was okay with not having me on voice comms... but even with that I can't take part in a lot of alliance activities because of that.

I think many fail to realize how many of us people who were around at the dawn of MMO's are still around but can only play for a few hours each night with the sound turned off (to not wake up a spouse or child). I know it's a futile wish... but i do wish the voice comm thing wasn't such a central part of group play on most MMO's (especially eve).


I have been in sov holding alliances for a big chunk of the years I've been playing and unless you are an FC or somebody "important" in the alliance talking on comms was not that common. I would often not talk because others in the house were asleep...was hardly an issue. And if listening to the FC is s problem: headsets people...headsets.


I don't really want to deal with voice commands either. I know that's not realistic for this game or most other MMO's at this point... it's just how I prefer to interact (via text communication rather than voice). I keep hoping some corporation of deaf players comes along for me to join.

For a while I thought I should just lie and tell everyone that I was deaf as a way to get them to stop telling me to get on comms.

Goonswarm Federation
#446 - 2017-03-20 21:11:43 UTC
Scialt wrote:


I don't really want to deal with voice commands either. I know that's not realistic for this game or most other MMO's at this point... it's just how I prefer to interact (via text communication rather than voice). I keep hoping some corporation of deaf players comes along for me to join.

For a while I thought I should just lie and tell everyone that I was deaf as a way to get them to stop telling me to get on comms.



BoB/GBC and later IT Alliance and Goons provide support for deaf players. I know I used it when my headset crapped out once and was waiting for the replacement. It does rely on other players with headsets typing FC commands. Not perfect, but player groups are trying....

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Caldari State
#447 - 2017-03-20 21:52:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Trasch Taranogas
Thank you guys for understanding.

Also glad to see that somebody else might have issues
with corps.
To join a corp is a pretty big deal on many levels, its a social
community and you have to fit in.

Finding a perfect corp can be tedious with trials and errors
especially for players like me who rather enjoy very small groups
and without the comm. stuff.

This could be something for CCP to dig into and find a solution
that is kinda in between.

Kinda like that billboard thing I mentioned.

" Hi, me and my friend want covop pilot who could tag
along this weekend and protect us in WH, bring friend
if you want. Contact 'Asso Whuppo' "

CCP could add some features to prevent trolling and
reduce the posibility to take (too much) advantage.

P.S. Using Kingston HyperX Cloud II

Live or die, YOUR choice.

                                 ~Eve
Caldari State
#448 - 2017-03-20 23:51:26 UTC
Soel Reit wrote:


lel i mean... even romans didn't think they could walk on the moonCool
the only limit out there is the one you place on yourself kiddo Cool

But it was the Chinese who invented rockets.
Caldari State
#449 - 2017-03-20 23:54:02 UTC
Alexander Maxim wrote:
Server reset. And I say this as someone who has 10 years into this game. I know many friends who like the new mechanics, but won't play because of the powers that be.

Burn it all. Start from scratch.

I bet that subs would be off the charts.


I wonder how many people would sigh in relief that sunk costs (in money and/or time) could finally be walked away from and never look back.
CODE.
#450 - 2017-03-21 00:10:49 UTC
Scialt wrote:

I don't really want to deal with voice commands either. I know that's not realistic for this game or most other MMO's at this point... it's just how I prefer to interact (via text communication rather than voice). I keep hoping some corporation of deaf players comes along for me to join.

For a while I thought I should just lie and tell everyone that I was deaf as a way to get them to stop telling me to get on comms.


You're right that it's not realistic. Voice comms are by far the most efficient way to communicate commands in a fleet engagement, so not using them would be a disadvantage. Telling people you are deaf would mean some do-gooder is wasting his time relaying commands for your needy self.

People who refuse to use comms without a good reason are considered untrustworthy and annoying.
Ivy League
#451 - 2017-03-21 00:14:40 UTC
Lawrence Lawton wrote:
Scialt wrote:

I don't really want to deal with voice commands either. I know that's not realistic for this game or most other MMO's at this point... it's just how I prefer to interact (via text communication rather than voice). I keep hoping some corporation of deaf players comes along for me to join.

For a while I thought I should just lie and tell everyone that I was deaf as a way to get them to stop telling me to get on comms.


You're right that it's not realistic. Voice comms are by far the most efficient way to communicate commands in a fleet engagement, so not using them would be a disadvantage. Telling people you are deaf would mean some do-gooder is wasting his time relaying commands for your needy self.

People who refuse to use comms without a good reason are considered untrustworthy and annoying.


And being in voice coms more often than not doesn't actually require talking all that much as it does listening.
I've been in hours long fleets where I probably only keyed up once or twice because I wasn't in a very talkative mood.

If you've got headphones then you can be in comms.
CODE.
#452 - 2017-03-21 00:24:24 UTC
Trasch Taranogas wrote:

Finding a perfect corp can be tedious with trials and errors
especially for players like me who rather enjoy very small groups
and without the comm. stuff.

This could be something for CCP to dig into and find a solution
that is kinda in between.

Kinda like that billboard thing I mentioned.

" Hi, me and my friend want covop pilot who could tag
along this weekend and protect us in WH, bring friend
if you want. Contact 'Asso Whuppo' "

CCP could add some features to prevent trolling and
reduce the posibility to take (too much) advantage.

Sounds like you're lacking in self confidence and motivation and expect others to do the work for you.

The problem with your idea, as you observed, is that it would require CCP to change the fundamental nature of EVE. If you posted that ad right now, anybody who responded would more likely kill you than protect you because nobody wants to protect a bunch of nobody wormhole farmers for free. Joining a corp is about establishing a trustworthy reputation and meeting other people you can depend on for things like that.

You're in no position to be picky. The "perfect" corp for you is one that will tolerate your presence.
Goonswarm Federation
#453 - 2017-03-21 00:34:22 UTC
Dornier Pfeil wrote:
Alexander Maxim wrote:
Server reset. And I say this as someone who has 10 years into this game. I know many friends who like the new mechanics, but won't play because of the powers that be.

Burn it all. Start from scratch.

I bet that subs would be off the charts.


I wonder how many people would sigh in relief that sunk costs (in money and/or time) could finally be walked away from and never look back.


They should walk away now...sunk costs are, after all, sunk. Sticking around because of them is not good.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

#454 - 2017-03-21 09:26:52 UTC
Lawrence Lawton wrote:
You're in no position to be picky. The "perfect" corp for you is one that will tolerate your presence.


Spat some of my drink out. Kudos Pirate

<○> 250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <○>

<○> Contact me regarding my trusted Alliance Creation Service <○>

TRUE VINE
#455 - 2017-03-21 12:44:08 UTC
its like all things when companys try new things they sometimes dont work , so have to explore differnet ideas ,like eveything else if their path fails then they need new ideas .

so employ new people new ideas its clear game can grow but is not working they way they would really like .

if you are right then ccp or the investors need to replace the people and get fresh faces , take elder scrolls no we wont go free to they did now awash with cash .

what ever ccp have said in the past wont happen and also the vets say if that happens we leave , i do think over time all companys will have to change the some taboo things and most comapnys are not unique to that .

so time for change out with the old and in with the new .
Caldari State
#456 - 2017-03-21 13:40:53 UTC
Alpha clones allow player to stay in touch with the game, but don't really do anything to lure them back into subbing again. Instead, ccp should have allowed players to use all ships spicing things up, keeping and / or placing current / other limitations such as 95% reduction in bounties and LPs, unable to skill anything else, market skills would be limited, implants would have limited use, jump fatigue bonuses inactive, double the fuel cost for jump capable ships, etc.
Flying cruisers can be fun, but re-using blops and caps might be a turning point for old players.

Also ccp could use alpha state to test some approaches, such as limited use of covops cloak (timer) to avoid perma eyes in a system. From test server to tranquility, alpha could be a useful tool , mediating changes in a manner that acts as a bridge between design and actual implementation. Its not all sour grapes for alphas, depends how ccp uses them.
Minmatar Republic
#457 - 2017-03-21 13:49:03 UTC
EVE is a niche game. You either find the nature of its universe and learning curve suits you or it doesn't. No amount of hand holding is going to change that. Short of expanding the size/options of the game I can't see anything that may attract new players without pissing of its core base.
#458 - 2017-03-21 13:50:46 UTC
Lawrence Lawton wrote:
Scialt wrote:

I don't really want to deal with voice commands either. I know that's not realistic for this game or most other MMO's at this point... it's just how I prefer to interact (via text communication rather than voice). I keep hoping some corporation of deaf players comes along for me to join.

For a while I thought I should just lie and tell everyone that I was deaf as a way to get them to stop telling me to get on comms.


You're right that it's not realistic. Voice comms are by far the most efficient way to communicate commands in a fleet engagement, so not using them would be a disadvantage. Telling people you are deaf would mean some do-gooder is wasting his time relaying commands for your needy self.

People who refuse to use comms without a good reason are considered untrustworthy and annoying.


Which is why I'm not part of your corporation.

See? I'm not bothering you, you're not bothering me. But don't whine that players like me aren't joining the part of the game you think we should. Voice comms in video games was not a thing until relatively recently (last 10-15 years). Some of us old farts aren't interested and it is a barrier for entry to a lot of things.

I still enjoy the game. I am still part of a corporation and I still PvP... I just do it solo in FW complexes in Low sec instead of in alliance fleets in null. I likely could be somewhat helpful in those fleets... but I don't want to take part in voice comms so I don't participate.

Sorry if that annoys you.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#459 - 2017-03-21 14:38:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Scialt wrote:
Lawrence Lawton wrote:
Scialt wrote:

I don't really want to deal with voice commands either. I know that's not realistic for this game or most other MMO's at this point... it's just how I prefer to interact (via text communication rather than voice). I keep hoping some corporation of deaf players comes along for me to join.

For a while I thought I should just lie and tell everyone that I was deaf as a way to get them to stop telling me to get on comms.


You're right that it's not realistic. Voice comms are by far the most efficient way to communicate commands in a fleet engagement, so not using them would be a disadvantage. Telling people you are deaf would mean some do-gooder is wasting his time relaying commands for your needy self.

People who refuse to use comms without a good reason are considered untrustworthy and annoying.


Which is why I'm not part of your corporation.

See? I'm not bothering you, you're not bothering me. But don't whine that players like me aren't joining the part of the game you think we should. Voice comms in video games was not a thing until relatively recently (last 10-15 years). Some of us old farts aren't interested and it is a barrier for entry to a lot of things.

I still enjoy the game. I am still part of a corporation and I still PvP... I just do it solo in FW complexes in Low sec instead of in alliance fleets in null. I likely could be somewhat helpful in those fleets... but I don't want to take part in voice comms so I don't participate.

Sorry if that annoys you.


The annoying part is how weird all that is. In almost 10 years of playing EVE I've never met anyone who was opposed to voice comms.

And your age has nothing to do with it, I started gaming well before voice comms too (I'm 42, and Im one of the young ones of the group), I have no problem using them. My last corp had a 73 year old player, he never had any problem with voice comms either

It's so odd that if someone were to tell me they didn't want to use voice comms It would be easy for me to believe they were a spy or something.

What is the actual issue you have with voice comms, if you want to share?
Goonswarm Federation
#460 - 2017-03-21 15:05:59 UTC
Scialt wrote:
Lawrence Lawton wrote:
Scialt wrote:

I don't really want to deal with voice commands either. I know that's not realistic for this game or most other MMO's at this point... it's just how I prefer to interact (via text communication rather than voice). I keep hoping some corporation of deaf players comes along for me to join.

For a while I thought I should just lie and tell everyone that I was deaf as a way to get them to stop telling me to get on comms.


You're right that it's not realistic. Voice comms are by far the most efficient way to communicate commands in a fleet engagement, so not using them would be a disadvantage. Telling people you are deaf would mean some do-gooder is wasting his time relaying commands for your needy self.

People who refuse to use comms without a good reason are considered untrustworthy and annoying.


Which is why I'm not part of your corporation.

See? I'm not bothering you, you're not bothering me. But don't whine that players like me aren't joining the part of the game you think we should. Voice comms in video games was not a thing until relatively recently (last 10-15 years). Some of us old farts aren't interested and it is a barrier for entry to a lot of things.

I still enjoy the game. I am still part of a corporation and I still PvP... I just do it solo in FW complexes in Low sec instead of in alliance fleets in null. I likely could be somewhat helpful in those fleets... but I don't want to take part in voice comms so I don't participate.

Sorry if that annoys you.


Voice comms mostly became a thing when large group cooperative game play became a thing because people realized it's much easier to tell someone to do something than it is to type. Typing a command to someone else essentially mean you stop doing your own job because you would still need your hands for that and usually take more time than just saying the exact same word. Any competitive group will want to have better communication. Why some people would rather stay in the "stone age" of comms and still type stuff is a mystery to me.
Forum Jump