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Dev blog: PLEX Changes On The Way!

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Tactical Narcotics Team
#481 - 2017-03-19 22:20:19 UTC
In regards to this topic, Heres a suggestion.

Plex remains in game but you cannot add new plex, once they are used up there gone. (Make a 3 month cut off before auto convert to aurum and make a in game item thats has no value called Invalid Plex for the ones who horded them)
CCP Sells Aurum
NES Sells Aurum Tokens in the Aurum Store @ 1 token to 1 aur. in multiples like 10, 50, 100, 500, 1000, 5000
Aurum Tokens can be sold for ISK.
Aurum Tokens can only be redeemed in station/citadel (They cant be lost in a citadel loss (even in a wormhole), they are redeemed straight to the account's aurum wallet on destruction, or in case of corp hanger redeemed into the CEO's account)
Aurum tokens are a in game item and can be traded for isk.
Player buys 3900 aurum on makret and redeems that into there wallet for 30-DAY game-time. this gives an option for 6300 for 60 days 9000 for 90 days (incentive to buy more game time at once for a little discount)
You can only buy game-time in the new Eden store or on account management page.

There is one obvious mechanic that could be abused is redeeming Aurum in Jita and redeeming it, then going to Amarr and buying Aurum Tokens from the NES, but place a 7 day restriction on redeeming Aurum balances that been bought (this still allows it but at a time , except the original station/citadel first redeemed, but not new Aurum tokens bought with a Credit Card.

I never been a fan of Aurum, but it been here a while now and we should retain its name, and for the sake of vanity items, allow walking in stations/citadels, the art work already done (dust 514 lobby) so it wont take much to implement.

tl:dr No more new Plex, Keep Aurum, Add Aurum Tokens, aurum buys 30/60/90 day GTC.

Gallente Federation
#482 - 2017-03-19 22:47:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Alderson Point
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
Martin Corwin wrote:
1000 AUR is worth 5 €. If you void all the AUR balances < 1k AUR and STEAL all that money from your player base, I'm biomassing all my characters never to return.

I'm not going to support a company that's stealing money from their customers.

Lol, 1000 AUR are worth in RL exactly nothing, it's a virtual thing owned by CCP. CCP can do with the Aurum what they want, didn't you read the ToS before signing up for EvE? Nothing within this game belongs to you, but is property of CCP.


That depends, in UK law if you bought something from a company they have to deliver it. This would be a very grey area, especiialy if you considered Aurum to be a service



You have a valid point, The final verdict of a court is difficult to predict, but there may be precidence here with other cases.

Bearing in mind that trading standards are a national organisation run locally, without direct cost to the consumer, complaints are free, and the costs would be for CCP to defend. They sell in Europe, the fact they are in iceland is not relevant. They can use the EULA in their defence, in court, do they feel lucky?

Is that really worth all the effort, especially if the judgement goes against them, a large PR and financial risk for a minute gain.

Someone should discuss this with legal, before it goes any further.

Because we are talking about EVE players it is an absolute certainty that if someone can make trouble, angry he lost even a trivial amount, without any cost to themselves, with someone else "standing up for the little guy" they will, and an interesting challenge for the local authority lawyers, who get nicely paid whatever the result.

Simplifying the currencies is an unalloyed good, making peoples payments disappear, not so much.
#483 - 2017-03-19 22:47:33 UTC
TheDoctorUK wrote:
In regards to this topic, Heres a suggestion.

Plex remains in game but you cannot add new plex, once they are used up there gone. (Make a 3 month cut off before auto convert to aurum and make a in game item thats has no value called Invalid Plex for the ones who horded them)
CCP Sells Aurum
NES Sells Aurum Tokens in the Aurum Store @ 1 token to 1 aur. in multiples like 10, 50, 100, 500, 1000, 5000
Aurum Tokens can be sold for ISK.
Aurum Tokens can only be redeemed in station/citadel (They cant be lost in a citadel loss (even in a wormhole), they are redeemed straight to the account's aurum wallet on destruction, or in case of corp hanger redeemed into the CEO's account)
Aurum tokens are a in game item and can be traded for isk.
Player buys 3900 aurum on makret and redeems that into there wallet for 30-DAY game-time. this gives an option for 6300 for 60 days 9000 for 90 days (incentive to buy more game time at once for a little discount)
You can only buy game-time in the new Eden store or on account management page.

There is one obvious mechanic that could be abused is redeeming Aurum in Jita and redeeming it, then going to Amarr and buying Aurum Tokens from the NES, but place a 7 day restriction on redeeming Aurum balances that been bought (this still allows it but at a time , except the original station/citadel first redeemed, but not new Aurum tokens bought with a Credit Card.

I never been a fan of Aurum, but it been here a while now and we should retain its name, and for the sake of vanity items, allow walking in stations/citadels, the art work already done (dust 514 lobby) so it wont take much to implement.

tl:dr No more new Plex, Keep Aurum, Add Aurum Tokens, aurum buys 30/60/90 day GTC.

Aside from you wanting to stop people using an item they paid for, this change is NOT about "game time". It IS about simplifying how players pay for items in the NEX store. Aurum is going away (a good thing) to be replaced with an item resembling plex.
Plex once the changes go through will no longer be "Plex" as we know it today but an ingame currency primarily focused on NEX store sales. Game time will become the secondary use.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Tactical Narcotics Team
#484 - 2017-03-19 23:16:29 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Aside from you wanting to stop people using an item they paid for, this change is NOT about "game time". It IS about simplifying how players pay for items in the NEX store. Aurum is going away (a good thing) to be replaced with an item resembling plex.
Plex once the changes go through will no longer be "Plex" as we know it today but an ingame currency primarily focused on NEX store sales. Game time will become the secondary use.


My suggestion simplifies things as well, with the same result, getting rid of PLEX as a item and adding Aurum tokens instead ends with the same result without the stress of creating a 3rd currancy.

And not needing a "Vault"

P.S. There is all-ready a Aurum token in game id 2833 - 1000 Aurum Token

#485 - 2017-03-19 23:47:21 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Aside from you wanting to stop people using an item they paid for, this change is NOT about "game time". It IS about simplifying how players pay for items in the NEX store. Aurum is going away (a good thing) to be replaced with an item resembling plex.
Plex once the changes go through will no longer be "Plex" as we know it today but an ingame currency primarily focused on NEX store sales. Game time will become the secondary use.

Give me one reason why AUR should go away, while it is ALREADY a fractional item to PLEX?
Why invent yet another item to replace it?

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison

#486 - 2017-03-20 00:19:36 UTC
TheDoctorUK wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Aside from you wanting to stop people using an item they paid for, this change is NOT about "game time". It IS about simplifying how players pay for items in the NEX store. Aurum is going away (a good thing) to be replaced with an item resembling plex.
Plex once the changes go through will no longer be "Plex" as we know it today but an ingame currency primarily focused on NEX store sales. Game time will become the secondary use.


My suggestion simplifies things as well, with the same result, getting rid of PLEX as a item and adding Aurum tokens instead ends with the same result without the stress of creating a 3rd currancy.

And not needing a "Vault"

P.S. There is all-ready a Aurum token in game id 2833 - 1000 Aurum Token

Aurum was added as a secondary item specifically for the NEX store, Plex has been around forever and is more widely associated with Eve.
Removing Aurum (translates to GOLD) is the best option. Having only 1 currency for everything means CCP can better control how that currency is used.
As Plex has been the accepted way to pay for game time, it will be a much easier transition to use it in the Nex store.

As for the vault, it is a good idea in principle but its placement in the game is the biggest hurdle. If it is added to the rarely used "Pilot License" tab in the character sheet it will not be intrusive. Whereas if it is added to the inventory hangar it will need to have a "hide" button added with it as many will not want 1, another fixed tab in their inventory 2, blatant in your face advertising (EA style) is something Eve can do without.

Pilot License tab doesn't need to be the tab so rarely used with even less useful information and overall use.
Renaming the "Pilot License" tab to "Plex Vault", then add the ability to see how much game time you have left (regardless of how you pay for it) would be a nice QOL thing.
The links to account management / buy Plex are already there, so a name change and a little more info added and we're done.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

#487 - 2017-03-20 03:26:26 UTC
Querns wrote:
FYI: It would be extremely foolish of CCP to allow players to purchase game time in increments smaller than 30 days. It'd take about a week before the first out-of-game, API-backed application arises to monitor your subscription levels and only prompt you to use a PLEX for every hour and change of actual log-in time you need. I'd probably write the application myself.

Doing this would utterly devastate CCP's bottom line.


I agree that there are certain people that would only use it to gain Omega access to ships, but plenty of us are still running all accounts in Omega for the training time?
Caldari State
#488 - 2017-03-20 04:07:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Kusum Fawn
Sgt Ocker wrote:
TheDoctorUK wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Aside from you wanting to stop people using an item they paid for, this change is NOT about "game time". It IS about simplifying how players pay for items in the NEX store. Aurum is going away (a good thing) to be replaced with an item resembling plex.
Plex once the changes go through will no longer be "Plex" as we know it today but an ingame currency primarily focused on NEX store sales. Game time will become the secondary use.


My suggestion simplifies things as well, with the same result, getting rid of PLEX as a item and adding Aurum tokens instead ends with the same result without the stress of creating a 3rd currancy.

And not needing a "Vault"

P.S. There is all-ready a Aurum token in game id 2833 - 1000 Aurum Token

Aurum was added as a secondary item specifically for the NEX store, Plex has been around forever and is more widely associated with Eve.
Removing Aurum (translates to GOLD) is the best option. Having only 1 currency for everything means CCP can better control how that currency is used.
As Plex has been the accepted way to pay for game time, it will be a much easier transition to use it in the Nex store.

As for the vault, it is a good idea in principle but its placement in the game is the biggest hurdle. If it is added to the rarely used "Pilot License" tab in the character sheet it will not be intrusive. Whereas if it is added to the inventory hangar it will need to have a "hide" button added with it as many will not want 1, another fixed tab in their inventory 2, blatant in your face advertising (EA style) is something Eve can do without.

Pilot License tab doesn't need to be the tab so rarely used with even less useful information and overall use.
Renaming the "Pilot License" tab to "Plex Vault", then add the ability to see how much game time you have left (regardless of how you pay for it) would be a nice QOL thing.
The links to account management / buy Plex are already there, so a name change and a little more info added and we're done.


While its true that PLEX has been around for a while, that isnt a good reason to get rid of AURUM which was introduced exactly for the reason that they are talking about removing the current PLEX. I havent seen anything that says that they are unhappy with how plex is being used, other then possible RMT through ship loss mails, which could easily be fixed by

(1) disallowing plex to put into ships
(2) Allowing Reverse redeem to move.

What I do see is
> This new PLEX granularity will allow us to sell smaller PLEX packages,

Why? to better be able to microtransaction everything. It has nothing to do with game play, but with the same basic monetizing structure that every other pay to win game has that everyone hates. Since game time will still require 500 plex to add a month, there is no reason to break it into smaller units.

except to be able to sell 499 packs and 999 packs instead of 500/1000 .


There was a specific choice made at the time to disallow plex from being moved, this was complained about because people would redeem them in null stations and no one would buy them out there. here is the original dev blog about that

https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/i-can-resist-anything-but-temptation/

And the comments on that
http://eve-search.com/thread/920773-0/page/1


They could easily have made the AURUM tokens a more tradeable thing, for a a more granular primary currency but they arent.

They could easily make it possible to trade 3500 aurum for game time, but they arent.

They could easily just rename AURUM to PLEX2.0 and have it do everything theat it already does. but they arent

They could easily make the PLEX item 1 billion m/3 and solve all the new pilot errors and shuttle plextanks.

But They Arent.

Its not about QOL, or granularity. its a badly done cash grab.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

#489 - 2017-03-20 09:16:44 UTC
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
CCP please come up with a new name. Why do I need 500 "Pilot License EXtensions" in order to fly for one month?


P.L.E.T aka Pilote License Extention Token.
Ivy League
#490 - 2017-03-20 10:21:45 UTC
Number 1) Great move

Number 2) Please rename it. You can't just redefine a currency and everything be ok if the new currency is called the same thing as the old currency. No matter how well you communicate it or change the font or logo or re brand it, etc. if it has the same name then you are setting up some returning players for a big fall when they will inevitably get massively scammed. Returning players will just assume any re-branding just as a design update and not that there has been any meaningful change.

I get that you want to keep the identity as everyone knows what a 'PLEX' is. The new name doesn't have to be a million miles away. How about 'PLEX Part' ? At least for a year or two and then just drop the word "part" after some appreciable amount of time.
Teros Hakomairos
#491 - 2017-03-20 10:27:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Teros Hakomairos
Star wars quote : so this is the way democracy dies...with thundering applause

Eve quote : so this is way eve dies....with a jammed open door for microtransactions....

This is not the eve commubity that protested against the monocle anymore,this is a community that finds mt "normal".....

This is not eve anymore.....
Gallente Federation
#492 - 2017-03-20 10:45:08 UTC
And in the aftermath of the microtransaction scandal of 2017 ccp employees will all be saying:
"But ve ver only obeying orders and the one who made us do it all was (s)HE!" (thanks spitting image for giving me this quote to draw from)

advise for CCP:
-If you want to unify the RMT currencies you have introduced you must bite the bullet of converting ALL the balances doing anything less is considered theft unless you decide to convert only the paid balances below 1000 additionally. (The ones you gave out as a gift and below 1000 would not technically be a theft as much as recalling a gift?)
That you decided to give everyone aurum regardless of account status and when the accounts were made (especially the second part) Is your oversight and you mustn't make your customers take your bullet for you.
-Use a new name for the currency.
-Explain to us why you think more micro transactions are needed in the game beyond the: "We're trying to cash out of this game and we're leaving you on the doorstep of some orphanage."
-don't do something silly (read: Stupid) and make performance based micro transactions beyond skill extractors (which shouldn't be based on aurum but on isk and seeded by NPCs but i digress....)
Caldari State
#493 - 2017-03-20 12:52:42 UTC
Sam Guivenne wrote:

1: Risk vs Reward: Plex hauling is supposed to be incredibly risky, which is why its also highly profitable.

4: This nullifies all that Aurum you gave out to everybody for Christmas, which is just a plain **** move.


1. There is zero reason to move a plex. Absolutely zero. Risk vs Reward? None, PLEX is to put rl money into either 30 days subscription or ingame ISK. No risk no profit, only a mere 1 billion ISK for about 12 euro.

4. Aurum was a bad idea and now they are fixing it.

Will we need to sue ccp? No. Why?

NOW :
They will first see people buy Aurom to get ISK. Those are what is called "early adaptors" they buy AUR now and get a certainty to have their Aurum transferred.

THEN (when parameters non disclosed are met) and ONLY THEN ccp will take the next step :
Offers in the AUR section. Just like announced seperately.

It's called marketing, stirr up people with "open" offers then watch the market split. And they will split untill all Aurum below 1000 is either gone or they go with PLAN B which is can't be disclosed as it's dumb to disclose all options of a deal while negotiating. People trust the supplier and will hop on any deal to not loose their invested money. Split them up and slowly offer different solutions. In the end most players and ccp will be satisfied. And all will be with minimal economical loss to ccp.

*drop keyboard*

PS: My keyboard is broken, I will need to get a new one. How come that doesn't happen to microphones?


Heretic Nation
#494 - 2017-03-20 14:54:18 UTC
Chris Ishar wrote:


It's called marketing, stirr up people with "open" offers then watch the market split. And they will split untill all Aurum below 1000 is either gone or they go with PLAN B which is can't be disclosed as it's dumb to disclose all options of a deal while negotiating. People trust the supplier and will hop on any deal to not loose their invested money. Split them up and slowly offer different solutions. In the end most players and ccp will be satisfied. And all will be with minimal economical loss to ccp.

*drop keyboard*

PS: My keyboard is broken, I will need to get a new one. How come that doesn't happen to microphones?




Are you implying that 1) CCP know what they are doing ? 2)CCP are able to PLAN B (which they often proove wrong) ?

You're so cute

Loyal servent to Mother Amamake. @EVE_Tetsel

Another Bittervet Please Ignore

#495 - 2017-03-20 15:30:06 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Sharcy wrote:
Vulvona Ride-in wrote:
My bet: montly plexing fees will explode ISK-wise!

Maybe, but ATM only the wealthiest players can afford to trade in PLEX. With smaller units, more ppl can do so, so you'll have more volume with more competition. This should drive the price down rather than up.
No it won't. Those trading in smaller amounts still want to make a profit - Look at the prices of different size Aur lots on the market. My guess, the price of variable amounts of Plex will follow the same trend.

1 = 500 plex = 1.1 bil
.5 = 250 plex = 600 mil
.25 = 125 plex =325 mil
Smaller lots will cost more than a months subscription of 500 plex.


Its hard to say where the new ISK price point for one month of Omega will end up. For example, CCP will be able to offer small packages of new-PLEX, like 100 for $5. This will open up new markets: people who do not want to spend $20 for 1 billion ISK, as they don't need 1 bil, and don't want to spend $20 for something they don't need. Now they can get just what they want. So they buy, and sell in the in-game market. Result: An increase in new-PLEX supply, which drives prices down.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

#496 - 2017-03-20 20:03:15 UTC
Alderson Point wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
Martin Corwin wrote:
1000 AUR is worth 5 €. If you void all the AUR balances < 1k AUR and STEAL all that money from your player base, I'm biomassing all my characters never to return.

I'm not going to support a company that's stealing money from their customers.

Lol, 1000 AUR are worth in RL exactly nothing, it's a virtual thing owned by CCP. CCP can do with the Aurum what they want, didn't you read the ToS before signing up for EvE? Nothing within this game belongs to you, but is property of CCP.


That depends, in UK law if you bought something from a company they have to deliver it. This would be a very grey area, especiialy if you considered Aurum to be a service



You have a valid point, The final verdict of a court is difficult to predict, but there may be precidence here with other cases.

Bearing in mind that trading standards are a national organisation run locally, without direct cost to the consumer, complaints are free, and the costs would be for CCP to defend. They sell in Europe, the fact they are in iceland is not relevant. They can use the EULA in their defence, in court, do they feel lucky?

Is that really worth all the effort, especially if the judgement goes against them, a large PR and financial risk for a minute gain.

Someone should discuss this with legal, before it goes any further.

Because we are talking about EVE players it is an absolute certainty that if someone can make trouble, angry he lost even a trivial amount, without any cost to themselves, with someone else "standing up for the little guy" they will, and an interesting challenge for the local authority lawyers, who get nicely paid whatever the result.

Simplifying the currencies is an unalloyed good, making peoples payments disappear, not so much.


The simplest legal solution to their legally risky issue is to determine which of the AUR balances arose solely from the gifts, a simple database query between their payment gateways and the ISK/PLEX/AUR accounting tables, and exclude only those from the conversion process. That would remove any real-life purchase issue as they guarantee only gifted amounts are dropped.

The proper way to do this is to track each inbound AUR from source, tag it as gift/real and then calculate out each account with spending priority given to gifted AUR. So if you have a balance of 2000 AUR consisting of 1000 from a gift and 1000 from a purchase and you spend 1500, you are left with 500 purchased AUR and 0 gifted AUR. It's a lot more complicated, but still a series of simple SQL queries. And they avoid any possible risk of a legal challenge because of the careful handling of the purchased spend.
DARKNESS.
#497 - 2017-03-20 21:36:12 UTC
I am tracking the changes, however CCP makes no sense when it comes to this statement:

CCP: "We think it would be great if it could be broken into smaller units that fit your needs rather than always being bound to the size of 30 days."

CCP Q&A:

Q: With smaller PLEX, will I be able to buy less than 30 days of Omega time?
A: We currently we have no plans regarding smaller game time packages.


So, exactly why chop it up when you still need to redeem all 500 for skill training, or account time? Is someone insane? 1 is simple.. 500 is not.

Unless you are saying you can buy stuff on the New Eden store for ~ 250 PLEX or something since Aurum is going away.

The Plex vault makes sense, but I still am not tracking the 500 plex thing.

Maybe make it so you can break up 1 PLEX into PLEx or something, that is smaller units for use on the EVE store, but you can combine 500 of those into 1 PLEX to keep it SIMPLE.
Caldari State
#498 - 2017-03-20 21:53:54 UTC
Tetsel wrote:

Are you implying that 1) CCP know what they are doing ? 2)CCP are able to PLAN B (which they often proove wrong) ?
You're so cute


First of all, I still respect you with all of my heart but you misspelled "prove". Please take a paper and write 100 times prove. This is not a punishment yet a manner in which you will be more inclined to use a spell checker. Preferably the one integrated in these forums.

That aside,

1) CCP are the top managers of the world. They run a game for over 10 years with success. I applaud them and always try to see where they are going with their great strategies and communication towards the customers

2) Plan B is sometimes difficult to explain. It's like when you are in a meeting and think "this is going to fail horrible yet lack a better proposal and vote yes. Then a few weeks later there is an emergency meeting because the customer didn't understand the way we communicated clearly and openly." At those meetings we decide about "Plan C" , which is difficult to explain. It's like when you are in a meeting and think "this is going to fail horrible yet lack a better proposal and vote yes. Then a few weeks later there is an emergency meeting because the customer didn't understand the way we communicated clearly and openly.". Did you know there are 26 letters in the alphabet and after Z you can start with AA ? That's all I have to say about that. I just hope a lot of great minds here on the forums can express interesting ideas and fair proposals so CCP can pick the right ones before plan XXX which sounds a bit ambiguous.

PS : Thanks, *blush*, I think I'm cute too! A/S/L ?
Minmatar Republic
#499 - 2017-03-20 22:12:38 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Sharcy wrote:
Vulvona Ride-in wrote:
My bet: montly plexing fees will explode ISK-wise!

Maybe, but ATM only the wealthiest players can afford to trade in PLEX. With smaller units, more ppl can do so, so you'll have more volume with more competition. This should drive the price down rather than up.
No it won't. Those trading in smaller amounts still want to make a profit - Look at the prices of different size Aur lots on the market. My guess, the price of variable amounts of Plex will follow the same trend.

1 = 500 plex = 1.1 bil
.5 = 250 plex = 600 mil
.25 = 125 plex =325 mil
Smaller lots will cost more than a months subscription of 500 plex.


Its hard to say where the new ISK price point for one month of Omega will end up. For example, CCP will be able to offer small packages of new-PLEX, like 100 for $5. This will open up new markets: people who do not want to spend $20 for 1 billion ISK, as they don't need 1 bil, and don't want to spend $20 for something they don't need. Now they can get just what they want. So they buy, and sell in the in-game market. Result: An increase in new-PLEX supply, which drives prices down.


Strike will be 2,000,000 ISK and settle to about 2,200,000.00 ISK

We're not here to change the game, we're here to change YOUR game

#500 - 2017-03-20 23:06:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
erg cz wrote:
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
CCP please come up with a new name. Why do I need 500 "Pilot License EXtensions" in order to fly for one month?


P.L.E.T aka Pilote License Extention Token.

I came up with idea of PLEX being a license, being like a card that you can load with charges and then spend them for "extensions", rather than being on alpha welfare.

PLEX vault would then be called PLEX card. And would be filled with PLEX charges.
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