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Be a miner or be a killer? simple

Author
Badfellas Inc.
#1 - 2017-03-20 19:56:58 UTC
UghSadSadSadOopsEvil

Excuse me for such outrage because I am a scientist and I do not believe such a scientific game is becoming a game of dreamers. For example in the point question. Imagine the energy and inertia involved in a long or short point from a frigate (Interceptor) to a Dread. A frigate when giving a point in a ship the energy consumed by the point should be proportional to the energy and mass of the target ship. If a frigate from that point in a Capital Ship it would be thrown into space and its capacitor would dry. Already if a Capital ship of a point in a Frigate it would be paralyzed and the capacitor of the Capital ship would not be shaken. That would be real. Now the way this is ridiculous. We want an EVE of adulton and not of dreamers.

I can not pay for the choice of people who do not use capital ships. I want to use a capital ship and be respected for its power. You want to make a point on my capital ship? Comes 200 large ships and the union of the capacitor energy of all of them could paralyze a capital. But 1 fly paralyzing a 747 aircraft without undergoing inertial transmission and without spending any energy getting the stable capacitor is ridiculous. Study the choices better because this game is becoming a generalized antics. Not to mention the boosters that this game has created that have more disadvantages than advantages. You buy the item and evolve months to use the skills that avoid punishment and the skills do not work. You gain 1 advantage to survive an attack and take 3 disadvantages even with the skills above. We need certainties. The miners of this game have so many disadvantages that the only thing that we could defend ourselves that were the bubbles comes a smart and turns it into something that should no longer exist. Now the miners have no more walks in the game.


ADVANTAGES OF A PVP:
With a fly (INTERCEPTORS) you can paralyze:
RORQUAL
ORCA
Exhumers
Mining Bargers

The only thing the mining community could stop the DPS ships to at least try to escape was the bubbles. But as CCP loves miners they are highly focused on ending the production pillar of EVE. Of the 17 miners I know 11 stopped playing and 3 went to PvP. Eve's changes were to be made based on science and not mass opinion. I could not dream of the rights of others. I can not use a same capital ship with all the features of the game. Through an attack I can only survive for 5 minutes and after that there will only be one option to death.

The only production and evolution line and economy of the game is mining. And we are having to abandon Eve and play other games that in EVE the mining is over. Miner's are like cockroaches and the PvP upgrades have made PvP players flip-flops. Miners live in hiding and even if you create a fleet to defend the game is so unbalanced that 10 ships that do not even have the power to throw down your fleet can overturn and paralyze your fleet so that you can only stay watching.

That's why my tip! Do not waste your time thinking that you can set up a structure to defend your mining fleet because your time will be all in vain. I spent 6 months evolving my characters to defend my mining ships. My body prepared everything for it to be worth it. When everything was going well and hope had appeared at the end of the tunnel and CCP comes and updates the game and destroys everything we planned. Eve can not plan anything. Play what we have today. Go to PvP like Alpha that is worth far more than stressing yourself with mining. Win 1 billion and lose 5.

CCP does not destroy Eve. More reality and less dream. That's all I ask.

REALITY!! ALREADY!!

Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2017-03-20 20:02:27 UTC
Points don't nail you down via the strength of the pointing ship, they cause disruption in the warp engine of the target and that prevent it from functioning. Size is completely irrelevant.
#3 - 2017-03-20 20:02:48 UTC
I think he's upset that you can tackle rorquals. But im not sure.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2017-03-20 20:32:38 UTC
OP, maybe you should HTFU?
Caldari State
#5 - 2017-03-20 21:08:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Old Pervert
You're looking at things in terms of strength, when you should be looking at things in terms of science (as a self-proclaimed scientist). Some analogies are in order.

Consider a large vat of water. I'll give you a paddle, and you'll try and swirl the water into a vortex. It'll be a nice big paddle, because you're in a rorq and that means you're stronger (right?)

I'll stand there with a small paddle, and hold it in that water. Will you make the water into a vortex? Nope. Small disturbance broke the effect.

Or perhaps a different example. You've got a big strong magnet... since you're flying in a rorq, again, lets say it's a superconducting magnet from an MRI or something, and you want to pull one metal plate with the magnet. Me I take my own metal plate and put it between them... can you draw in that intended magnet, regardless of how strong the magnetic field is?

No. The field will go through my interfering plate, rather than around it, resulting in my disrupting your activity.

As with everything else in this game, bigger is not better.

Edit:

One fly may not be able to paralyze a 747, but one duck will do some pretty fantastic things to the engine!
Caldari State
#6 - 2017-03-20 21:26:40 UTC
Old Pervert wrote:
You're looking at things in terms of strength, when you should be looking at things in terms of science (as a self-proclaimed scientist). Some analogies are in order.

Consider a large vat of water. I'll give you a paddle, and you'll try and swirl the water into a vortex. It'll be a nice big paddle, because you're in a rorq and that means you're stronger (right?)

I'll stand there with a small paddle, and hold it in that water. Will you make the water into a vortex? Nope. Small disturbance broke the effect.

Or perhaps a different example. You've got a big strong magnet... since you're flying in a rorq, again, lets say it's a superconducting magnet from an MRI or something, and you want to pull one metal plate with the magnet. Me I take my own metal plate and put it between them... can you draw in that intended magnet, regardless of how strong the magnetic field is?

No. The field will go through my interfering plate, rather than around it, resulting in my disrupting your activity.

As with everything else in this game, bigger is not better.

Edit:

One fly may not be able to paralyze a 747, but one duck will do some pretty fantastic things to the engine!

Your edit is just sadistic.

True, but sadistic.

Ivy League
#7 - 2017-03-20 21:31:19 UTC
Old Pervert wrote:

One fly may not be able to paralyze a 747, but one duck will do some pretty fantastic things to the engine!


And how about the number of humans killed by mosquitos every year? (Over a million)

But no... clearly size is the only thing that matters.
Caldari State
#8 - 2017-03-20 21:37:44 UTC
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
Old Pervert wrote:

One fly may not be able to paralyze a 747, but one duck will do some pretty fantastic things to the engine!


And how about the number of humans killed by mosquitos every year? (Over a million)

But no... clearly size is the only thing that matters.

On the duck in a jet engine note - the duck doesn't survive. On the mosquito note... most don't survive.
#9 - 2017-03-20 22:50:13 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Points don't nail you down via the strength of the pointing ship, they cause disruption in the warp engine of the target and that prevent it from functioning. Size is completely irrelevant.

I've always thought of it this way:

Warp disruptors/scramblers affect the space the ship is in, not the ship itself.

You don't need to effect the entirety of the space the ship is in - just enough of it to leave a chunk of the ship behind if it did.

I think this meshes well with the concept of bubbles, and the higher strength of faction and/or heavy disruptors.
Working Stiffs
#10 - 2017-03-20 23:53:33 UTC
A single Scorpion in the belt is very effective to protect several mining ships.

I'm a miner, and a killer (just not a very good killer).
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#11 - 2017-03-21 05:27:48 UTC
Cold Face wrote:
Now the way this is ridiculous. We want an EVE of adulton and not of dreamers.

I can not pay for the choice of people who do not use capital ships. I want to use a capital ship and be respected for its power.

Sounds to me like you want to fly a big and expensive ship for no reason other than that it's big and expensive, and you want to beat everyone else by sheer economic advantage while calling their misfortune a choice.

We don't use real-world physics in games because the real world isn't fun. It's great when we can make stuff realistic because it's more immersive, but gameplay always comes first and sometimes the in-game physics just have to be fantastic.

I would press for giving larger ships bonus warp strength and also for giving us larger warp disruption modules with higher powergrid costs (which we got finally, but we still need cruiser size), but I'd also push for reducing battlecruiser and battleship scan resolution and probably both of those need to happen together if either one.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

O.U.Z.O. Alliance
#12 - 2017-03-21 10:42:57 UTC
I see what may have happened:

- Fit hulk(s) like this:

3x strip
something here maybe a survey scanner
2x mining lazor upgrade (however slots you have on a hulk)

Dronebay:
10 mining drone II

- Has rorqual

Everyone sings cumba ya!

Now zee evil interceptor comes along and makes a point or statement (the statement being "you are bad at mining")



What should have happened:

- Have 10 mackinaws fit like this:

2x strip miner II
whatever goes here
drone damage amplifier, damage control, lazor upgrade (maybe)

Dronebay:
10x hobgoblin

What could have happened:

Now zee evil interceptor comes along and wants to make a poi- POOF

10x mackinaw warp away

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2017-03-21 17:43:25 UTC
Or, even better than mackinaws, Skiffs. Tanks like a battleship if you bother to fit it properly.
O.U.Z.O. Alliance
#14 - 2017-03-21 22:27:53 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Or, even better than mackinaws, Skiffs. Tanks like a battleship if you bother to fit it properly.


Oh my bad! Skiff of course it was.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Pandemic Horde
#15 - 2017-03-21 22:40:44 UTC
So basically the OP doesn't understand the science of warp disruption and wants to make a "scientific" argument as to why you shouldn't be able to tackle his rorqual. Just refit to warp stabs or incinerate the ceptor with light drones.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!

Test Alliance Please Ignore
#16 - 2017-03-22 02:28:16 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Or, even better than mackinaws, Skiffs. Tanks like a battleship if you bother to fit it properly.

Not if you know how to tank a battleship properly. It has battleship hit points, but due to its poor slot layout and wimpy powergrid, it gets combat battlecruiser EHP with cruiser active tank. But that's plenty. I haven't flown a Skiff but I can say from experience that the Procurer's defense and offense are closer to the Prophecy while its mobility is closer to the Arbitrator. It says on the tag it's a mining ship but I would honestly consider taking it in a combat fleet. And I have.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Mercenary Coalition
#17 - 2017-03-22 13:45:26 UTC
So lets view the warp engines as you creating a field around your ship which moves you slightly out of phase, which most things cant affect you like targeting etc. without being in that state you are unable to accelerate to warp.

SO if we view it like that, to create the field you would have to release energy/aka a frequency wave. So I view that warp disrupter as sending cancelation waves which block the energy from building around your ship/ a warp stabilizer allows it to send additional waves that don't affect the energy but do affect the cancelation waves of the warp disrupter.

So if its a bigger ship It would require more energy to fully engulf the ship with the field, so it requires more to enter warp and stay in warp(Which it does) but if you constantly negate x amount of energy while it builds up it will never reach full. ships by default are setup to just be able to reach warp.
Badfellas Inc.
#18 - 2017-03-22 20:11:50 UTC
The dots use capacitors so the energy would have to be proportional to the mass being paralyzed. Such as invisibility. The drag of the craft should be detected by the heat expelled by the propellers. For it to be totally invisible it must have its engines deactivated. By equipping a thermocouple module you could find it if it is in motion.

But getting back to the point. The module uses electromagnetic energy to paralyze the target as shown in the animation of the laser that exits from your ship to the target. It paralyzes its electronic systems which depending on the mass of the ship are many and large or are few. That is. The larger the mass the greater the electromagnetic field must be and thus the greater the energy expenditure of the capacitor. Now if you tell me that you do not use energy and everything happens with a magic wand then I understand and close my complaint.
Badfellas Inc.
#19 - 2017-03-22 21:46:42 UTC
Shocked


That is, I can spend 1/8 of my capacitor to drag my capital with a micro warp drive of 50,000 MN and risk my ship and everything I have in it and the hotness that enters my region and faces me using a fly uses a point and Spends almost nothing on its capacitor and still deactivates my MWD of 50,000 by paralyzing my capital. It exchanges the shape of point energy by a moon or WH mineral. So it has the limited point because the module fuel will end. So you would believe in the effect of this short or long point module. Now using capacitor power is ridiculous.

Thanks for all give your opinions just want a fair game. Capital ships as in a naval battle game has its power in mass and power. Capital ships had to go into reinforcement. And the fleet would have to bring in a repair fleet to repair the damaged modules and systems and save the capital. You invest billions in a ship and lose it because a ship of 20 million paralyzed you. Magic! I think CCP wants to turn EVE into StarTrek. Let's dream.
Pandemic Horde
#20 - 2017-03-23 01:45:19 UTC
Seriously, it doesn't take that much power to disable someone's navigation computer. Get some friends to kill this "fly" since solo capital usually = dead capital anyway.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!

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