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Rapid heavies or cruise?

Author
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2017-03-19 17:05:15 UTC
I know this must have been covered a thousand times before but a search turned up nothing.

Anyway, I already tried a couple different battleships to do level 4s, but got a wild hair and decided to try a Rattlesnake, so bought one. After testing it, I'm happy with the tank, and the drones seem to perform well. But I had trouble deciding whether to go with cruise or arbalest rapid heavies. The fitting tool in Eve said there wasn't much difference in DPS between the two (surprised me - I thought cruise should have higher DPS), and since I reasoned that heavies would apply damage better (not to mention the fact that they leave me more power grid and cpu) I went with the arbalest rapid heavies.

I can't say that I've been particularly pleased with the results so far (the range is fine as I'm running range rigs). Frigs take a long time to kill, and battleships take a long time to kill. So I just wanted to know the 'conventional wisdom,' and wanted to make sure whether I should be relying on the estimates given by the in-game fitting tool.

What say you? Rapid heavies or cruise? Or something else?

Note that I sort of built this thing to be more of a brawler rather than a sniper. I already have snipers BS's, and if I wanted a sniper I wouldn't need this kind of tank.

Also, tried torps but the range was crazy short - spent more time trying to chase targets than I spent fighting.
#2 - 2017-03-19 17:14:21 UTC
i think i would opt for cruise:
- range
- better reload time
- i would adjust my cruise's targets into battleships, while using drones for small things

just an opinion.
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#3 - 2017-03-19 17:15:47 UTC
Some thoughts, according to your statements.

If you don't want a sniper/type platform, then why waste rig slots with range rigs?
Damage rigs will serve much better.

Do you use implants? They might help, but they are pretty specific to Cruise or Heavies.

If DPS is about the same, I'd use Cruise, and get the range as a free bonus.


The best bonus on a Snake, is the drone bonus, so I would fit for drones and take what you get from the missiles. Secondary damage.
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2017-03-19 17:22:41 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:
Some thoughts, according to your statements.
If you don't want a sniper/type platform, then why waste rig slots with range rigs?


Originally I tried torps. The range was so terrible I put in a couple range rigs. The range was still terrible so I went to arbalest rapid heavies (which need some range help too, I think). It was on my list of things to do to 're-evaluate rigs' and I wrote it down :) But sure, I think you may have a point.

Quote:
Damage rigs will serve much better.


Will give them a try.

Quote:
The best bonus on a Snake, is the drone bonus, so I would fit for drones and take what you get from the missiles. Secondary damage.


I have 1 drone module in the highs, a drone module in the mids, and 3 in the lows, along with 3 ballistic ii's. Does that sound about right, or would someone like to post something better, or critique this fit?
Nulli Secunda
#5 - 2017-03-19 17:34:29 UTC
Beast of Revelations wrote:
I know this must have been covered a thousand times before but a search turned up nothing.

Anyway, I already tried a couple different battleships to do level 4s, but got a wild hair and decided to try a Rattlesnake, so bought one. After testing it, I'm happy with the tank, and the drones seem to perform well. But I had trouble deciding whether to go with cruise or arbalest rapid heavies. The fitting tool in Eve said there wasn't much difference in DPS between the two (surprised me - I thought cruise should have higher DPS), and since I reasoned that heavies would apply damage better (not to mention the fact that they leave me more power grid and cpu) I went with the arbalest rapid heavies.

I can't say that I've been particularly pleased with the results so far (the range is fine as I'm running range rigs). Frigs take a long time to kill, and battleships take a long time to kill. So I just wanted to know the 'conventional wisdom,' and wanted to make sure whether I should be relying on the estimates given by the in-game fitting tool.

What say you? Rapid heavies or cruise? Or something else?

Note that I sort of built this thing to be more of a brawler rather than a sniper. I already have snipers BS's, and if I wanted a sniper I wouldn't need this kind of tank.

Also, tried torps but the range was crazy short - spent more time trying to chase targets than I spent fighting.



Arthur Aihaken wrote:
1. Yes, T2 cruise launchers have far more potential over 'Arbalest' cruise launchers for damage against battleships (Fury) and cruisers (Precision). It's generally advisable to run at least one T2 rigor, target painter or precision-scripted missile guidance computer for damage application if you opt for cruise missiles.
2. Yes, T2 rapid heavy launchers are also perfectly acceptable. They need no damage application and auto-targeting heavy missiles are great at picking off orbiting frigates. The 35-second reload time sucks, but that's the trade-off. As heavy missiles have less range, if you're using in conjunction with sentry drones at least one T2 hydraulic rig or range-scripted missile guidance computer is recommended to extend your attack range.


From here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6807943#post6807943
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2017-03-19 19:38:24 UTC
It's not always about dps, don't forget about volley. The volley on cruise missiles is higher. If it's high enough, and if you can apply the damage, you could one-shot many targets.
O.U.Z.O. Alliance
#7 - 2017-03-19 20:12:10 UTC
Soel Reit wrote:
i think i would opt for cruise:
- range
- better reload time
- i would adjust my cruise's targets into battleships, while using drones for small things


That!

Doris Laur wrote:
It's not always about dps, don't forget about volley. The volley on cruise missiles is higher. If it's high enough, and if you can apply the damage, you could one-shot many targets.


She gets it Smile

And she is right. Your fitting screen may tell you a different story but hammering 5000hp kinetic or thermal damage on an NPC battleship will make you lightheaded.

Don't forget, long range missiles are artilleries with less range but a little better tracking. The only difference is that they cannot do 3x 5000 hp damage like a wrecking shot artillery alpha, so it will always be less than 5000hp.

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Amarr Empire
#8 - 2017-03-20 04:18:10 UTC
Soel Reit wrote:

- i would adjust my cruise's targets into battleships, while using drones for small things


I get it. Thing is, the snake's bonus is for heavy and sentry drones. Those aren't so good for frigs are they?
O.U.Z.O. Alliance
#9 - 2017-03-20 07:22:52 UTC
Beast of Revelations wrote:
Soel Reit wrote:

- i would adjust my cruise's targets into battleships, while using drones for small things


I get it. Thing is, the snake's bonus is for heavy and sentry drones. Those aren't so good for frigs are they?


They can be if you use them right. When frigate or destroyer NPC ships are around 80km -ish away, you can use sentry drones to snipe them of the field and if they are closer use heavy drones with one omnidirectional tracking link.

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#10 - 2017-03-20 07:38:58 UTC
Beast of Revelations wrote:
Soel Reit wrote:

- i would adjust my cruise's targets into battleships, while using drones for small things


I get it. Thing is, the snake's bonus is for heavy and sentry drones. Those aren't so good for frigs are they?


NPC frigs are pretty easy to track (relative to Player frigs) so heavies will hit them especially if you have an application mod or 2. Sentries will at range but not up close.

personally i think ti depends on what you are shooting more than anything else. Shooting lots of frigs and cruiser, heavies. Lots of BS, Cruise.

For example I use RHML for C3 WH while Cruise for C4 and C5. Same couple apply for missions with more or less BS.
#11 - 2017-03-20 19:47:23 UTC
i think CW says cruise rattler.

i love the hell outta running dual rhml/gecko rattlers thru missions tho.

do what YOU like.
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2017-03-20 20:25:37 UTC
Switched to cruise missiles, and switched rigs over to shield extenders and resistance rigs (would have gone with missile rigs but in the fitting tool they only helped marginally, not a lot). Allows me much more flexibility in the mids to do whatever I want there.

Quite happy with the results - was melting through stuff like butter in some test level 4s, and the tank is the best.

Thanks to all.
#13 - 2017-03-25 13:41:49 UTC
Beast of Revelations wrote:
Switched to cruise missiles, and switched rigs over to shield extenders and resistance rigs (would have gone with missile rigs but in the fitting tool they only helped marginally, not a lot). Allows me much more flexibility in the mids to do whatever I want there.

Quite happy with the results - was melting through stuff like butter in some test level 4s, and the tank is the best.

Thanks to all.

Personal thoughts here.
Never use resist rigs on a mission ship, to restrictive when trying to adapt to different damage profiles of the various NPC, and no matter what you have in at least one of the slots will essentially be wasted because the NPC are not shooting that type of damage at you. Use your rigs for something that will help you on every missions and your mids to handle the resists. Personally on a cruise fit I am a fan of using a pair of rigor cats to boost damage application and a single rig to boost raw DPS. Others prefer to go all damage application while others go all raw damage and to be honest either would be preferable to resist rigs.

Last thought. If you intend to try to use long ranges to your advantage a low skills pilot in a Raven only have about 72k range so using one or more rig slots to help with range may be another option.
Caldari State
#14 - 2017-03-28 02:40:28 UTC
Missiles are a weird weapon platform in eve and performance with them varies on both the nature of the target and the launcher being used.

Each missile type is best suited for use on it's 'size' equivalent target

- Cruise = Large
- Heavy = Medium
- Light = Small

With Cruise's you lose about 80% of the available damage when shooting at Medium sized targets, and it's a waste of ammo shooting Small targets (use drones for those instead).

With Heavies you lose about 80% of the available damage when shooting at Small sized targets, and when shooting at Large targets you are capped by the upper limit of the damage done by the missile.

For missiles the ability to effectively apply the damage they can do is more important than it is for turrets.

For the Snake .. the Drones are your main DPS
Rapid Heavies make for a good secondary weapon system.
You retain more of the effective dps
Range is not too dissimilar from your basic control range

Fitting tools will give you a maximum damage rating based on perfect conditions, with missiles you will almost NEVER have perfect conditions.


#15 - 2017-03-28 12:31:12 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
With Cruise's you lose about 80% of the available damage when shooting at Medium sized targets, and it's a waste of ammo shooting Small targets (use drones for those instead).

Not specifically true. T2 launchers, T2 Precision ammo, a pair of TP or MGC a rigor cat equipped ship can can single volley many of the destroyers, virtually all of the cruisers and most of the BC. Doing this weakens them against the remained of the BC and the BS class ships in the pocket so like everything else in Eve there are choices to be made.
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2017-03-29 14:04:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Eleanor Roscommon
In the time you took to post this, and then get some answers, you could have fitted ships with RHM or cruise, and found out for yourself.

Just type "rapid heavies" in the search engine, and you'll see that is has been covered a thousand times before.
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