EVE General Discussion

 
 

Cool It With the ISK Sinks

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#61 - 2017-05-05 10:48:51 UTC
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
Nardos Tatio wrote:


Unwilling and unaccepted PVP is not part of a modern mmog.....it was 14 years ago but we have 2017......

Time for a change.....


No, it is not. Go away.



BUT IT IS THE CURRENT YEAR.



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

Caldari State
#62 - 2017-05-05 11:02:49 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Cool it with the "Vote for me" trashposts.

CSM elections came and went.
You missed the boat.

Stick to topic.

Your post is off topic.


Is it?
Then so are yours.

Make up your mind, my dear.

Yeah mine are, but I'm not the fool crying for people to stay on topic while posting off topic at the same time.

People can post how they like. If the ISDs or CCP staff don't like it, they'll sort it out. No one is really going to pay much attention to anything you request of them,

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

The-Culture
#63 - 2017-05-05 11:50:23 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Cool it with the "Vote for me" trashposts.

CSM elections came and went.
You missed the boat.

Stick to topic.

Your post is off topic.


Is it?
Then so are yours.

Make up your mind, my dear.

Yeah mine are, but I'm not the fool crying for people to stay on topic while posting off topic at the same time.

People can post how they like. If the ISDs or CCP staff don't like it, they'll sort it out. No one is really going to pay much attention to anything you request of them,

The bar is getting lower and lower.....What?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

ChaosTheory.
#64 - 2017-05-05 12:10:39 UTC
Drago Shouna wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:

You accept PvP when you click undock. If you have an issue with that, Singularity is open for you.




I see the indoctrination programme is still in full swing....


How is accepting the plain reality of a situation "indoctrination"?
#65 - 2017-05-05 12:30:54 UTC
I agree with Teckos on not implementing more isk sinks.
(I used to think differently, but Ive learned from him in previous threads)

I think the Upwell structures result of redirecting cost of services to player Corp pockets rather than sunk out of the game to NPCs was a good step towards a more player centered economy, although its true impact is unclear and obscured by the Jita/Forge Monolith.
(Id love if someone with know how could calculate the change in NPC fees/tax sink since Upwell structures where released)

Isk sinks suck, especially as it makes the economy even more vulnerable to:
a) players leaving game and removing their assets from circulation.
b) remaining players choosing not to invest due to rate of deflation.



Thats the isk sink issue out of the way.

But.

Teckos:
Why do you think there is a deflation trend?
What sustained ingame player action is causing this?
#66 - 2017-05-05 12:35:09 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Drago Shouna wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:

You accept PvP when you click undock. If you have an issue with that, Singularity is open for you.

I see the indoctrination programme is still in full swing....


How is accepting the plain reality of a situation "indoctrination"?


Teaching players the Golden Rules is indoctrination.
Teaching a student the scientific method is indoctrination.

You have the false premise that indoctrination could not involve being taught to understand/accept the plain reality of a system.

You dun goofed again, Jenn.
#67 - 2017-05-05 12:58:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
March rabbit wrote:
Snip]


Soon approaching Reddit standards.
Guess its the millennial generation piling in.
ChaosTheory.
#68 - 2017-05-05 13:01:12 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Drago Shouna wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:

You accept PvP when you click undock. If you have an issue with that, Singularity is open for you.

I see the indoctrination programme is still in full swing....


How is accepting the plain reality of a situation "indoctrination"?


Teaching players the Golden Rules is indoctrination.
Teaching a student the scientific method is indoctrination.

You have the false premise that indoctrination could not involve being taught to understand/accept the plain reality of a system.

You dun goofed again, Jenn.


I understand that English isn't your 1st language so you might not get what's being wrote, but the way the word was used was with a negative inflection.

Funny thing is there is a guy at my job who is from South America and does the same thing, and like you we've had to explain that real language use doesn't follow strict dictionary guidelines.
#69 - 2017-05-05 13:55:07 UTC
Removed some off-topic posting

ISD Chanisa Nemes

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

#70 - 2017-05-05 15:08:13 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Snip

"Indoctrination" as a term, carries no "negative inflections" (whatever the """" you think that means).

Sorry, SJennaW.
You cant pervert language here without being called on it.

The term doesn't mean what you have been "indoctrinated" to think it means.
Caldari State
#71 - 2017-05-05 15:54:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Uhum Buheev
just allow bombs in Hi Sec

Create Urgent Message like kind of
"Broken security Event!
Empire security is compromized by viruses and bombs are allowed in Jita undock!
Starting from today, and it ends in 3 days!!
BE careful!
(I mean hurry up and kill kill kill!! 3 days only!!)
"

and repeat that event randomly once in month.
really good sink for isks!
#72 - 2017-05-05 15:58:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Uhum Buheev wrote:
just allow bombs in Hi Sec!

Im totally ok with NS rules in Jita.
Jita must die.

Jita/Forge is a cancerous tumor made possible by bad mechanics perpetuated throughout EVE for years.

It should not exist. Every yesr, NPC Jita grows more prominent.
Its an abomination and a drain on content/dynamics both economic and PvP throughout EVE.

DEATH TO JITA!
Goonswarm Federation
#73 - 2017-05-05 17:29:45 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
I agree with Teckos on not implementing more isk sinks.
(I used to think differently, but Ive learned from him in previous threads)

I think the Upwell structures result of redirecting cost of services to player Corp pockets rather than sunk out of the game to NPCs was a good step towards a more player centered economy, although its true impact is unclear and obscured by the Jita/Forge Monolith.
(Id love if someone with know how could calculate the change in NPC fees/tax sink since Upwell structures where released)

Isk sinks suck, especially as it makes the economy even more vulnerable to:
a) players leaving game and removing their assets from circulation.
b) remaining players choosing not to invest due to rate of deflation.



Thats the isk sink issue out of the way.

But.

Teckos:
Why do you think there is a deflation trend?
What sustained ingame player action is causing this?


It is right there in the economic reports. Look at the in game CPI, it is trending down, has been for quite awhile. What are players doing? IDK, there are alot of players doing alot of different things. Could be a number of things, and they are not mutually exclusive. Some said the real economy is growing at a rate faster than the money supply. Another could be that there is not enough ratting, etc. which is how the money supply grows. Some have suggested there is not enough destruction. These could all be true. Now, the rate of deflation may be "acceptable"--i.e. it is not large enough to cause people to start holding ISK and not buy stuff. But even if that is true, that still does not support having more ISK sinks, IMO.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

#74 - 2017-05-05 17:43:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Teckos Pech wrote:
But even if that is true, that still does not support having more ISK sinks, IMO.

I already agreed to that.

Isk sinks are bad. Better to funnel those funds into player entities such as by Upwell structures replacing NPC sinks into player pockets instead..

But.
Thats not what I asked you.

You have claimed the EVE isk economy is deflating.

Explain now then why that is occurring.

What is causing deflation in EVE?
#75 - 2017-05-05 17:47:03 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Jita/Forge is a cancerous tumor made possible by bad mechanics perpetuated throughout EVE for years.

Nuke Jita and another High Sec station becomes the hub. Continue to nuke the new hubs and soon there won't be any High Sec left. At that point I guess we'll have to become renters of GSF or PH so we can trade. Or opt out entirely.

Brilliant.

(never not take the bait)
#76 - 2017-05-05 18:27:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Benje en Divalone wrote:
Nuke Jita and another High Sec station becomes the hub.

There are underlying causes.
Material transport, especially past LS, is too safe.
JFs make a mockery of LS transit between HS and NS.

The figures for Jita trade volume completely eclipse anywhere else, and its a goddam NPC system.

Mark my words, Jita is one of the causes for "EVE dying".

As related to topic, goddam the amount of isk sink in Jita alone for fees.
#77 - 2017-05-05 18:43:39 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
It is right there in the economic reports. Look at the in game CPI, it is trending down, has been for quite awhile. What are players doing? IDK, there are alot of players doing alot of different things. Could be a number of things, and they are not mutually exclusive. Some said the real economy is growing at a rate faster than the money supply. Another could be that there is not enough ratting, etc. which is how the money supply grows. Some have suggested there is not enough destruction. These could all be true. Now, the rate of deflation may be "acceptable"--i.e. it is not large enough to cause people to start holding ISK and not buy stuff. But even if that is true, that still does not support having more ISK sinks, IMO.


we farm more isk than we can use, and build more than we can sell. It is nice to have a bunch of isk in the wallet and a bunch of ships you could fly. Having a bunch of isk and backup items means it hurts less when you do lose something.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

#78 - 2017-05-05 18:48:40 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Benje en Divalone wrote:
Nuke Jita and another High Sec station becomes the hub.

There are underlying causes.
Material transport, especially past LS, is too safe.
JFs make a mockery of LS transit between HS and NS.

The figures for Jita trade volume completely eclipse anywhere else, and its a goddam NPC system.

Mark my words, Jita is one of the causes for "EVE dying".

As related to topic, goddam the amount of isk sink in Jita alone for fees.


Centralized markeds don't create deflation in general. If you take away centralized market s you end up with an economic situation that has more regional variance on what the prices are of different things in different places... but it has little net impact on on totals. The supply is the same... the demand is the same. It's just the points of sale are not centralized. In the areas where the demand is high and/or the supply is low... prices rise. If the demand in another place is low and/or the supply is high... prices drop.

If products are destroyed (not confiscated, but in fact destroyed) in great numbers on the way to a central market but players do NOT react by spreading to diversified markets.... then you could see a supply impact. But I think you would agree that if hauling were to become less safe the markets would spread out instead of being centered in a few places. This could get rid of Jita... but it wouldn't impact inflation/deflation in a significant way (assuming that deflation is the underlying cause you're referring to).
#79 - 2017-05-05 19:00:02 UTC
Such a monolith as Jita should never have been possible in EVE.

Its existence is anathema to every EVE principle, and proof positive of severely dysfunctional safety of material transport to and from it.

Its an abomination.
A festering, ever-growing cancer that sucks the life/content out of the rest of EVE.

Player empires rise and fall, yet the Jita tumor only grows and grows.
Goonswarm Federation
#80 - 2017-05-05 19:48:02 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
But even if that is true, that still does not support having more ISK sinks, IMO.

I already agreed to that.

Isk sinks are bad. Better to funnel those funds into player entities such as by Upwell structures replacing NPC sinks into player pockets instead..

But.
Thats not what I asked you.

You have claimed the EVE isk economy is deflating.

Explain now then why that is occurring.

What is causing deflation in EVE?


ISK sinks in and of themselves aren't bad. And for what is causing it, my last post gave some possibilities as to why we are seeing prices trending down. Another factor could be reduction to barriers to certain production such as the change to station slots for copying, manufacturing, inventing, etc. That removed many barriers just by itself. Before to do invention having a POS was quite common, but to have a POS in those days you had to have standings and the POS fuels. With unlimited slots the role of the POS was greatly reduced for much of invention. Basically, there is an imbalance between the real sector of the economy and the money supply.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

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