Intergalactic Summit

 
 

A short announcement related to TD involvement in Kyonoke attacks.

Author
Caldari State
#121 - 2017-05-08 12:33:11 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
... for using a biological weapon on a Caldari city. And you say that's not a crime.

Which I never said.

If you have audio or visual hallucinations, visit your clone technicians or medbay. IGS is not a place for goons to practise in dementia.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

#122 - 2017-05-08 12:54:03 UTC
Arrendis wrote:

Not true. If any of those individuals gave money to the organization, and any money from the organization was used in the execution of terrorist acts, then they're legally co-conspirators.

That would be an action.
#123 - 2017-05-08 12:55:07 UTC
Previously, on "Another Drama at the IGS"

- Kim´s bosses say that an ideological group went above ideology and did bad stuff
- Kim decides to remove all members of said group from her ship after reading about bad stuff
- Community call Kim a bad stuff doer
- Kim replies everyone pointing that ideology and bad stuff don´t always go together, and haboring ideology people doesn´t make her a bad stuff doer or supporter
- Community doesn´t care and call her names and bad stuff doer.
- This goes on for 7 pages

Instead of calling people names, confusing correlation with causation, and sharing opinions as if they were something important, why don´t you spend that precious energy helping to erect something to the benefit of the cluster?

I could really use some help acquiring the specs for the Sansha infomorph interfacing units and the architecture of the computational power that goes with it.

Join Project Transcendence.

Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.

#124 - 2017-05-08 14:57:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason Galente
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:
I find it interesting that he keeps talking about "Civilized Society", and i just wonder where the hell does one exist. Or did exist. In all recorded history. And unrecorded.

Everyone gets their hands dirty. Some only outsource it.

It doesn´t make you any cleaner. Nor civilized.



Edgy sophistric pedantry. Yes, the definition of 'civilized society' is squishy and is up for semantical debate, but it's also largely understood as a term and as a social phenomena by most groups of humans that have survived up until this point. You can pretend the phenomena of civilized society doesn't exist, but that doesn't make it any less true that you likely conform to it to a great degree, and you likely can identify uncivilized behavior when you see it. So it's there, even if it's difficult to come to a consensus on 100% of what it constitutes.

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost

#125 - 2017-05-08 15:01:15 UTC
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:
and sharing opinions as if they were something important


You're not doing anything different here, you know.. the difference is that the rest of us are making direct points, something potentially productive (albeit rarely), and you're just 3rd partying on the discussion. That's far from productive. So why don't you go erect something, eh?

See how annoying that is?

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost

#126 - 2017-05-08 16:08:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Morgana Tsukiyo
Jason Galente wrote:

Edgy sophistric pedantry. Yes, the definition of 'civilized society' is squishy and is up for semantical debate, but it's also largely understood as a term and as a social phenomena by most groups of humans that have survived up until this point. You can pretend the phenomena of civilized society doesn't exist, but that doesn't make it any less true that you likely conform to it to a great degree, and you likely can identify uncivilized behavior when you see it. So it's there, even if it's difficult to come to a consensus on 100% of what it constitutes.


I would advise you to re-read what i said and compare your current conclusions to the intent of the words written.


Jason Galente wrote:
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:
and sharing opinions as if they were something important


You're not doing anything different here, you know.. the difference is that the rest of us are making direct points, something potentially productive (albeit rarely), and you're just 3rd partying on the discussion. That's far from productive. So why don't you go erect something, eh?

See how annoying that is?


Not annoying at all my dear opinion sharing capsuleer.

In fact, you can help a great deal by pointing out experts or gathering materials while you go merry on your way to do that important thing that you are so opinionated about.

Please resume your opinion comparison with the other opinionated people.

Join Project Transcendence.

Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.

#127 - 2017-05-08 17:26:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason Galente
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:

Please resume your opinion comparison with the other opinionated people.


My opinion is that Diana is psychotic. What am I going to do? Make her not psychotic? Kill her so she can be reborn 10 seconds later? Destroy her non-existent private corporation?

There's no area in which I have any control over the person (and she's not worth the effort even if this weren't the case), and she, like the rest of us, is effectively immortal. So what am I going to do, exactly?

You seem to be existentially confused about why people bicker with one another, as if it's not natural. And as if there's always something to be 'done'. Sometimes words are indeed the appropriate response when you're at an effective impasse as to what you can do? You confuse me. What 'productive action' exactly would you take when it comes to this person, since you are so, you know, transcendent above the rest of us plebs? Anything other than "mock them" or "ignore them" doesn't seem to make much functional sense. And again, whether or not you want to admit it, 'opinion comparison' is often the first step people take prior to formulating a plan of action.

But I'm sure your orgy studies are far more productive than our repudiation of a genocidal war criminal.

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost

Goonswarm Federation
#128 - 2017-05-08 17:58:17 UTC
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:
Previously, on "Another Drama at the IGS"

- Kim´s bosses say that an ideological group went above ideology and did bad stuff
- Kim decides to remove all members of said group from her ship after reading about bad stuff


You missed the part where the citations of 'the CEP has reaffirmed the Dragonaurs are terrorists' are almost a decade old. They're been on the 'did bad stuff, illegal to be part of this group' list for a very, very long time now. Which makes hiring them in the last few years a slightly different flavor than you one you're presenting.
M.A.D. Consortium
#129 - 2017-05-08 18:01:00 UTC
Ummm correct me if I am wrong but the hiring of Terrorists for a State Run Militia or State Nationalist Militia is like a bad thing right?

We stand at the Abyss, drawing the Patterns of Fate - Casserina Leshrac, Savant, Sani Sabik.

#130 - 2017-05-08 18:03:03 UTC
Casserina Leshrac wrote:
Ummm correct me if I am wrong but the hiring of Terrorists for a State Run Militia or State Nationalist Militia is like a bad thing right?


Yeah, it's just a 'bad thing'. Like when a child steals a cookie from a jar. Just, you know, bad. Nothing more egregious than that.

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost

Goonswarm Federation
#131 - 2017-05-08 18:03:18 UTC
TomHorn wrote:

That is not true , that is fake news. Someone infected by kyonoke and who became ill , which resulted in him crashing his ship on the planet, caused the outbreak, was not a terrorist attack.

They were placed on a terrorist list , yet they had not committed any such acts. It was political move by their opponents. Politics is dirty game.


Really? So violating the containment on the Pit in order to secure the bioweapon in the first place, that wasn't a terrorist act? Pretty sure the State would say it is. And having knowingly done that, even approaching a population center is pretty much a statement of intent.
Goonswarm Federation
#132 - 2017-05-08 18:04:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Arrendis
Deitra Vess wrote:
Arrendis wrote:

Not true. If any of those individuals gave money to the organization, and any money from the organization was used in the execution of terrorist acts, then they're legally co-conspirators.

That would be an action.


Since membership in the group that's been labelled as terrorists for years is voluntary, Deitra, affiliation is an action. You don't see me telling Miz 'oh, I'm a Goon, but I'm not responsible for the things Goons do', do you? No. I'm an enabler, I cop to it. My affiliation is voluntary, so being a part of this group is an active decision.
#133 - 2017-05-08 19:43:04 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
TomHorn wrote:

That is not true , that is fake news. Someone infected by kyonoke and who became ill , which resulted in him crashing his ship on the planet, caused the outbreak, was not a terrorist attack.

They were placed on a terrorist list , yet they had not committed any such acts. It was political move by their opponents. Politics is dirty game.


Really? So violating the containment on the Pit in order to secure the bioweapon in the first place, that wasn't a terrorist act? Pretty sure the State would say it is. And having knowingly done that, even approaching a population center is pretty much a statement of intent.


No it is not. More fake news.

All we know is there was a breach of the pit. Those involved became infected and died,so whatever their intentions were for getting sample of kyonoke are unknown, were not carried out.

What you are publishing are the same assumptions and conspiracy theories of many others , mostly pushed by Gallente nationalists , and the Caldari liberal extremists , who both have their own agendas.
Arataka Research Consortium
#134 - 2017-05-08 19:50:10 UTC
The intent of the terrorists is known. They were planning a biological weapons attack on the Federation.

Given the nature of the Kyonoke pathogen as we knew it at that time, this would best be described as a conspiracy to commit a genocidal attack.

Either way, the breach of a State-mandated and -operated security cordon constitutes a breach of State law.

This conspiracy then resulted in nearly 15 million State citizens dying of the Kyonoke outbreak in Myrskaa.

While the intent was not to infect Myrskaa, I think it's fair to say that the Dragonaur are not exactly blameless of mass murder insofar as Myrskaa is concerned.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Goonswarm Federation
#135 - 2017-05-08 20:47:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Arrendis
TomHorn wrote:

No it is not. More fake news.


No, Mr. I-Was-A-Dragonaur-Until-It-Got-Dangerous-To-Admit-It, just the opposite.

Note that I never claimed the initial intent was to attack that city. So let me walk you through this:

1) They breached the Pit in order to secure a sample. Not in dispute.
2) One pilot became infected and crashed on a populated Caldari planet. Not in dispute.
3) By the time he became incapacitated, this pilot, who knew he'd breached the Pit, would also have known he was infected.
4) At the time, there was no cure available.
5) There are no indications he attempted to alter course, warp to an empty location in space, self-destruct, or otherwise take action that would have lessened the risk to bystanders.
6) He went to a planet. It's not like he didn't know the planet would be there.

Relevant points:
He chose to breach the Pit. He knew he was infected. He made no attempt to avoid population centers, and in fact, went to a populated planetary body. Knowing there was no cure.

That's more than enough for the criminal case to be made.

And none of that is in dispute, unless you'd like to offer evidence that he attempted to dodge the giant rock that he knew about a number of AU ahead of time, and somehow failed. Or, you know, that he attempted to warn the local civilian population as he was initiating warp that he presented a biohazard risk and should be placed in immediate quarantine by HAZMAT-equipped emergency responders.

Quote:
who both have their own agendas.


Yes, and you certainly don't have an agenda as a "former" member of the organization yourself, do you?
#136 - 2017-05-08 22:08:26 UTC
I don't know where those logs have come from, taking it they are genuine and not forged, it looks like it wasn't more fake news after all.

We agree on points one and two. After that i believe he became sick , what happened was unintentional. If he could of done something i believe he would of.

Yes criminal case could be brought against him, no doubt.

Quote:
Quote:
who both have their own agendas.


Yes, and you certainly don't have an agenda as a "former" member of the organization yourself, do you?


hehe your funny.
#137 - 2017-05-08 22:17:09 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
The intent of the terrorists is known. They were planning a biological weapons attack on the Federation.

Given the nature of the Kyonoke pathogen as we knew it at that time, this would best be described as a conspiracy to commit a genocidal attack.

Either way, the breach of a State-mandated and -operated security cordon constitutes a breach of State law.

This conspiracy then resulted in nearly 15 million State citizens dying of the Kyonoke outbreak in Myrskaa.

While the intent was not to infect Myrskaa, I think it's fair to say that the Dragonaur are not exactly blameless of mass murder insofar as Myrskaa is concerned.


TomHorn smiles , you love it don't you Priano-Haani , you love it that 15 million State citizens are dead , you can show a link to the far right in the State.
#138 - 2017-05-08 22:25:17 UTC
Wow. It might have been better for you to do this quietly, Kimmy....

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Arataka Research Consortium
#139 - 2017-05-08 22:34:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Makoto Priano
Horn, you're a bloody idiot.

Edit; Ms. Osyn, honestly, I believe the point was as much for Kim to stick out her tongue and make raspberries at the rest of the cluster, flaunting how edgy and dangerous one lone militia pilot is.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Goonswarm Federation
#140 - 2017-05-08 23:08:13 UTC
TomHorn wrote:

We agree on points one and two. After that i believe he became sick , what happened was unintentional. If he could of done something i believe he would of.


So you believe that his first symptoms presented, and progressed all the way to complete incapacitation, within the time one warp? I mean, you've breached the Kyonoke Pit. You start getting sick. Gee, I wonder what it might be!

Just the possibility should be enough to alert local medical authorities and get yourself moving away from every celestial in the system, just on principle.
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