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It's against the Eve ToS

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Amarr Empire
#1 - 2017-05-14 21:24:11 UTC
It's against the Eve ToS to biomass ganking alts to avoid the negative consequence of security status.
Fair enough.

Why is it OK to biomass trade hub spammer bots to avoid the negative consequence of being blocked by everyone?
Seems to be inconsistent with point one.
Cynosural Field Theory.
#2 - 2017-05-14 21:26:52 UTC
Or, they make a new acc.

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.

The-Culture
#3 - 2017-05-14 21:35:55 UTC
Because no matter how hard you try,
you cant make me explode by spamming local with crappy scamms.
#4 - 2017-05-14 23:50:31 UTC
People read local chat in trade hubs? Interesting...
The-Culture
#5 - 2017-05-15 02:42:41 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
People read local chat in trade hubs? Interesting...

Yeah aparently.
Bloody hipsters.
#6 - 2017-05-15 02:58:47 UTC
meh. if it is too good to be true, well you should know what they say about that at this point.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

#7 - 2017-05-15 04:58:26 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
People read local chat in trade hubs? Interesting...

The spambots wouldn't exist without people falling for the scams..

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.

#8 - 2017-05-15 05:32:35 UTC
What is this "local" you people are referring to?

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

The-Culture
#9 - 2017-05-15 07:24:54 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
What is this "local" you people are referring to?

The intel thingy that tells you how lickly you are to die.
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2017-05-15 10:05:33 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Because no matter how hard you try,
you cant make me explode by spamming local with crappy scamms.


What? You have got to be shitting me!

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

#11 - 2017-05-15 10:33:34 UTC
virm pasuul wrote:
It's against the Eve ToS to biomass ganking alts to avoid the negative consequence of security status.
Fair enough.

What consequences? The gankers just travel in pods, use neutral Orcas to get in ganking ships and warp straight to their next target. Trading, hauling, ISK making ist done with neutral alts. There are no real consequences for gankers.
#12 - 2017-05-16 04:49:49 UTC  |  Edited by: RainbowDashC22 Shiratori
Algarion Getz wrote:
virm pasuul wrote:
It's against the Eve ToS to biomass ganking alts to avoid the negative consequence of security status.
Fair enough.

What consequences? The gankers just travel in pods, use neutral Orcas to get in ganking ships and warp straight to their next target. Trading, hauling, ISK making ist done with neutral alts. There are no real consequences for gankers.


Why do you think the Code Alliance is such a very big problem? There are no 'real consequences' for them. They warp to you, kill you, lose their ship, then go and get a new one while you're left with nothing. Nothing that Code does is profitable. They shouldn't exist by themselves as they are constantly losing ships ganking people, and making no profit from it. So how is it that they have so many gankers, all over high sec, and able to fund it?

Because they are being funded by alts. Everyone in the 'Code Alliance' is an Alt and being funded by their main alt to 'avoid the negative consequence of security status.' But even then, you can kill NPC to raise your standings (Which in itself is stupid).

Even being a Criminal isn't a problem. You just warp to a station and wait the timer out. You're completely safe and protected, and nothing will ever happen to you.

That's kinda funny you know. Concord protecting the stations and gates, but will happily let Criminals and those with low standing use the gates and dock at stations. Wish they would fix that. Criminals should be shot on sight by Concord and barred from any stations in High and Low sec. Let them run around in Null and WH space. And Negative Standing should bar you from being able to use Concord's gates to get into the High Sec areas, not just be a little slap on the wrist.

In low, Null, and WHs, ganking should be a problem. But it should NEVER be a problem in High Sec. I wish there was more you could do, and harsher restrictions for Criminals and Negative standing in High Sec.

After all, Concord is meant to Police the High Sec, and yet they can't do anything about the gankers in Code Alliance. To me, that says there is a problem in the game that the Devs need to fix. In low sec, ganking should be a problem, never in high sec. So why has it been allowed to go on for years?

It's clear that they are exploiting the game to ruin the fun of players in high sec. Using alts to get around Negitive Standing, and exploiting how they can wait out timers in Stations before getting new ships or using Neutral ships like Orcas to store more ships to keep ganking without consequences.

Dealing with Code is not fun, it has no profit, they exploit Multiboxing and using alts to gank people being funded by their main alt. And unless you go to war with Code, gearing up for PvP and doing Concord's job for them, there is nothing you can do till they attack and kill one of your ships first to turn criminal, and like I explained earlier, they don't lose anything for doing that. They just warp out as a pod and get a new ship and do it again and again, while you have to constantly replace the ships they destroy.

They exploit the High Sec rules, they found loopholes to not get killed in a pod, and hiding in stations to wait out the timers. And the Devs do nothing about it. How big of a problem does Code have to get before they step in and fix the broken systems in High Sec that they keep exploiting?
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2017-05-16 05:34:32 UTC
RainbowDashC22 Shiratori wrote:


Why do you think the Code Alliance is such a very big problem? There are no 'real consequences' for them. They warp to you, kill you, lose their ship, then go and get a new one while you're left with nothing. Nothing that Code does is profitable. They shouldn't exist by themselves as they are constantly losing ships ganking people, and making no profit from it. So how is it that they have so many gankers, all over high sec, and able to fund it?



CODE isn't actually a big problem.

Quote:


Because they are being funded by alts. Everyone in the 'Code Alliance' is an Alt and being funded by their main alt to 'avoid the negative consequence of security status.' But even then, you can kill NPC to raise your standings (Which in itself is stupid).



The alliance itself was actually funded to the tune of hundreds of billions of isk via a public thread - think it was in the market sub forum. its still probably got some sort of top line funding and from what I can see they also shifted to far more profitable economic ganking and a lot less miner ganking. ie cost realities hit CODE eventually. In any case, if someone mines ice with 10 alts to fund whatever they want, then there isn't any moral reason CODE pilots can't do likewise.

Quote:


Even being a Criminal isn't a problem. You just warp to a station and wait the timer out. You're completely safe and protected, and nothing will ever happen to you.

That's kinda funny you know. Concord protecting the stations and gates, but will happily let Criminals and those with low standing use the gates and dock at stations. Wish they would fix that. Criminals should be shot on sight by Concord and barred from any stations in High and Low sec. Let them run around in Null and WH space. And Negative Standing should bar you from being able to use Concord's gates to get into the High Sec areas, not just be a little slap on the wrist.

In low, Null, and WHs, ganking should be a problem. But it should NEVER be a problem in High Sec. I wish there was more you could do, and harsher restrictions for Criminals and Negative standing in High Sec.



https://zkillboard.com/kill/62218865/

This is the equivalent event in nullsec. I warped my domi safe when the hostile entered system, miner wasn't paying attention, he was however, in the standing defense fleet, could tell us when he got tackled and where he was and what tackled, and the fleet mechanics give me a warp in, therefore I was able to respond, (as well as a tackler) and the miner was also in a ship that would last long enough for me to get there.

Important thing, is that response to hostiles is a fun task, it works properly in null, but the gameplay as a whole almost doesn't work in highsec because of highsec mechanics and the afk, unprepared, unfleeted, poorly fitted nature of the pilots being defended.

Quote:



After all, Concord is meant to Police the High Sec, and yet they can't do anything about the gankers in Code Alliance. To me, that says there is a problem in the game that the Devs need to fix. In low sec, ganking should be a problem, never in high sec. So why has it been allowed to go on for years?



Oh come now, if a vexor can do the job in nullsec, then I'm sure that invincible super ships with perfect ecm and massive firepower and unbreakable tanks + serious rules covering abusing them, that never go afk or log off can do the job just fine.

Quote:



It's clear that they are exploiting the game to ruin the fun of players in high sec. Using alts to get around Negitive Standing, and exploiting how they can wait out timers in Stations before getting new ships or using Neutral ships like Orcas to store more ships to keep ganking without consequences.

Dealing with Code is not fun, it has no profit, they exploit Multiboxing and using alts to gank people being funded by their main alt. And unless you go to war with Code, gearing up for PvP and doing Concord's job for them, there is nothing you can do till they attack and kill one of your ships first to turn criminal, and like I explained earlier, they don't lose anything for doing that. They just warp out as a pod and get a new ship and do it again and again, while you have to constantly replace the ships they destroy.

They exploit the High Sec rules, they found loopholes to not get killed in a pod, and hiding in stations to wait out the timers. And the Devs do nothing about it. How big of a problem does Code have to get before they step in and fix the broken systems in High Sec that they keep exploiting?


Nope, some of CODEs rhetoric is annoying,. but conceptually adding a loss chance to highsec is not at all a problem, it rewards people who take basic operational precautions, and it penalizes people that don't. That is good, not bad.

The pods are killable, and in any case who cares, an empty pod is free whether its yours or theirs.

The fix would be removal of highsec outside of starter systems, so I'd be careful of what you wish for.
Circle-Of-Two
#14 - 2017-05-16 05:49:28 UTC
Honestly It's probably more a manpower issue vs annoyance to the players. Policing this would be a nightmare and while **** isn't blowing up I doubt people will push this to the top of their CCP fix it wish list

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

#15 - 2017-05-16 06:54:31 UTC
I can think, right off the top if my head, a few different 'Features/Changes' that would instantly fix this issue with Code up instantly.

In fact, here let me list a few.

In High Sec ONLY. 0.5 to 1.0 systems.
'Criminals' can not use any Gates in High Sec, nor leading TO High Sec while in a Pod, and will get shot immediately on sight by Concord and hunted within 10 seconds of entering a High Sec system, with the 'Count Down' NOT resetting even going through a new gate into a new High Sec system. They can, however, escape through Wormholes, and enter into High Sec through Wormholes.

'Criminals', and those with Negative Standing are no longer able to Dock in a station in High Sec, no matter if they are in a Ship or in a Pod. Criminals will be in effect in every High Sec system, while Negative Standing would only match the systems matching their Negative Standing. So 0 standing, means they can't enter stations in 1.0 system, while -3 standing can't enter stations in 0.7, 0.8, 0.9, and 1.0. With the last, -5 standing, being unable to Dock in any Station in High Sec at all. This means even if they own the station themselves or their corp owns it they will not be able to enter.

More importantly tho, 'Criminal' status, will NEVER be removed, till the PLAYER/POD is killed. You can no longer wait out a timer, you HAVE to be killed fully to lose your criminal status.

Suspect Status no longer has a timer either, and instead works as a 3 strike system. Susp players will no longer be hostile and kill able. However, they can not lose Susp Status, even if they get podded and the player killed. And when they do 3 'Susp Status' worthy things, they get turned into a Criminal instantly, and follow the rules above.

---
And as noted as above, this would effect High Sec system, and NOT Low Sec, Null, or WH space. Except the changes to how Criminal and Suspect status works, that's a global change and one for the better. Why would a Susp or Criminal just lose their criminal status by hiding in a station for a short while? But the changes to what Criminals can do in High Sec, namely Gate use while in a Pod, and unable to enter stations while Criminals or Negative Standing.

It never made sense why a Ganker could just get blasted to their pod, then Warp out of the system through Concord controlled Gates, or non Criminal Stations allowed to be in Concord's High Sec Controlled Systems and just magically stop being a 'Criminal' over time. They should be turned away by Stations for being Criminals, requests to dock denied, and unable to access Gates controlled by Concord while in a pod in High Sec where they are ever watchful. Pods are already over powered enough in High Sec by instant warping before you can even lock on to Warp Scramble them.

My changes above would fix a lot of problem with the game in High Sec, it would fix all of them of course, and would still let Criminals that want to Terrorize High Sec, the ability to live in Wormholes with a Static Exit leading to High Sec to 'Invade' from. And there are plenty of Wormholes in High Sec they can easily scan one down, bookmark it, then go gank someone and escape into the Wormhole.

This will keep High Sec players on their toes about the Anomalies in their system incase there is a Wormhole, and for Corps in high sec to patrol inside the Wormhole while it lasts to prevent Criminals from coming in that way, and to catch them if they try to leave.

And yes, I know this doesn't fix 1 issue. Namely whats stopping criminals from losing their ships and instead of waiting in a station for X time to lose criminal status, just have Concord blow up their pod to lose criminal status and come back from their base and redo the same thing again, especially if their base is nearby. There is only 3 ways I can think of 'Fixing' this.

First in changing 2 things. Each time you become a Criminal, you lose down a Negative level. So even if you were Standing 10, go criminal and instantly your Standing is 0, then go criminal again and it goes to -1, then -2, and from -2.5 to -3.5 and so on. And second thing, is that when you are at -5.0 or below, you Permanently become 'Criminal' status unless you raise your standing to -4.9 or above and get killed in a pod. This will of course not stop them from making alts to keep getting around Negative Standing issues, which is against ToS but they don't care and CCP isn't going to notice or care.

^ This will mean they would get at most 6 free shots before instantly becoming a criminal and as soon as they step out of the station, attackable by everyone nearby and players can guard against them. This will mean tho, that Criminals would be trapped in that station and unable to leave as he will be Permanently a criminal and unable to leave the station without a player killing him and sending him back to the station, back to square 1.

Second, have it so when they lose access to stations in High Sec do to them being Criminal or Negative Standings, it removes their clones from the stations they can't access anymore, and have to set their 'Home Station' and clones into a Station they can enter. If they turn Criminal, and had a single clone in a high sec station and it got cancled now, then when they die, they respawn into a random Station in Low or Null sec that they can enter. With the complimentary Faction beginning ship of course, like you always get when you enter a station with just a Pod.

^ This will make it so Criminals can't just stick their home base into a High Sec system they want to Terrorize, then constantly kill people, respawn and get into a new ship before going out instantly to repeat. It will force them back to Low or Null sec, and force them to get into a new ship and fly back. ->
#16 - 2017-05-16 07:02:42 UTC  |  Edited by: RainbowDashC22 Shiratori
RainbowDashC22 Shiratori wrote:
^ This will make it so Criminals can't just stick their home base into a High Sec system they want to Terrorize, then constantly kill people, respawn and get into a new ship before going out instantly to repeat. It will force them back to Low or Null sec, and force them to get into a new ship and fly back. ->


Fly back into High Sec, where Corps would be able to Guard the gates leading from Low Sec into High Sec if they wished to kill the Criminals on the way in. This also prevents them from saving into a Low Sec station right next to a gate leading to High Sec and coming in and Terrorizing it.

Third, would be that Criminal Status is on a timer instead of death, but much longer timer. Not minutes, or even hours. But you would be a 'Criminal' for 7 days, to a month, no matter how many times you die or get podded.

To 'Balance' the changes where people would be Criminals for long periods of time, a small change in Low Sec would be needed. Namely, that Concord would no longer instantly come after Criminals in Low Sec after being in there for 30 second. And instead, would only chase after a player with the 30 second timer AFTER they do something criminal worthy in Low Sec System. Then until they Die, Concord will keep chasing them through Low Sec like normal for Criminals.

--
There. Those changes, I believe, would make things more fun and interesting in Eve. High Sec would be more protected like it should, giving more power to Corps and Players to protect themselves and High Sec systems, while Null and WH would be criminal infested still like it should, and Low Sec still has the same securities between being safe and unsafe like it should. Criminals and Gankers shouldn't be infesting High Sec, they should be in Low Sec and below, that's the point of the High Sec, Low Sec, and Null Sec systems and the differences between them.
#17 - 2017-05-16 07:12:29 UTC

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Warped Intentions
#18 - 2017-05-16 07:12:43 UTC
WAI-DCAT

Works as intended-Don't change a thing.

"The world ain't fair, there is no Santa Claus, and not everyone gets a F'n trophy just for showing up. Welcome to the real world. Welcome to Eve."

#19 - 2017-05-16 07:21:07 UTC
RainbowDashC22 Shiratori wrote:
Why do you think the Code Alliance is such a very big problem? There are no 'real consequences' for them. They warp to you, kill you, lose their ship, then go and get a new one while you're left with nothing. Nothing that Code does is profitable. They shouldn't exist by themselves as they are constantly losing ships ganking people, and making no profit from it. So how is it that they have so many gankers, all over high sec, and able to fund it?

Because they are being funded by alts. Everyone in the 'Code Alliance' is an Alt and being funded by their main alt to 'avoid the negative consequence of security status.' But even then, you can kill NPC to raise your standings (Which in itself is stupid).

Maybe you are on to something. What if the recycled Jita spam bots are the source of ISK that funds the CODE. Alliance? Shocked

Mind blown.

But I thought this was a Grr local scam/spam thread though not a Grr Code one? Probably you should put your ideas to save Eve by making it a safe carebear paradise in the appropriate forum: F&I.
#20 - 2017-05-16 07:28:20 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
RainbowDashC22 Shiratori wrote:
Why do you think the Code Alliance is such a very big problem? There are no 'real consequences' for them. They warp to you, kill you, lose their ship, then go and get a new one while you're left with nothing. Nothing that Code does is profitable. They shouldn't exist by themselves as they are constantly losing ships ganking people, and making no profit from it. So how is it that they have so many gankers, all over high sec, and able to fund it?

Because they are being funded by alts. Everyone in the 'Code Alliance' is an Alt and being funded by their main alt to 'avoid the negative consequence of security status.' But even then, you can kill NPC to raise your standings (Which in itself is stupid).

Maybe you are on to something. What if the recycled Jita spam bots are the source of ISK that funds the CODE. Alliance? Shocked

Mind blown.

But I thought this was a Grr local scam/spam thread though not a Grr Code one? Probably you should put your ideas to save Eve by making it a safe carebear paradise in the appropriate forum: F&I.



I'll actually go do that. Also, both are a problem. Making alts to spam is clogging up space in Jita. Didn't they remove a map in the center of the game because it was overloaded with too many players? Having lots of bot alts sitting around doing nothing but spamming will eventually overload the map again with too many players in 1 map, and most of them being spam bots.
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