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My ideas on how to make Hi-Sec more Secure against Gankers & Criminals

Author
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2017-05-16 18:04:57 UTC
Blade Darth wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
permanently hunted by CONCORD
Awesome idea, more realism (like police irl, hunts baddies everywhere) but than make concord killable and possible to defend from. Very hard, but possible. Atm. they have infinite stats compared to player ships.


Well, aside from the fact that this should apply to the Bads™ who post on the forums who want CCP to protect vs. doing that themselves. The OP was ganked by CODE. in a retriever with no tank and probably not paying attention to who was stalking the belts. The OP made a number of blunders and instead of learning form them wants CCP to come and pat him on his poo-poo and tell him it will be alright that they'll go punish that mean poopie head.

That kill could have been avoided. Putting a tank on that retriever might have saved the ship. Switching to a procurer almost surely would have. Orbiting whatever you are mining will help in a small way too. Bet the OP was just sitting there fat and dumb. Or being watchful and when you see a catalyst land in the belt, GTFO.

But no, lets have CCP make it so this player can continue engaging in foolish and imprudent behavior.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2017-05-16 18:23:21 UTC
Blade Darth wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
permanently hunted by CONCORD
Awesome idea, more realism (like police irl, hunts baddies everywhere) but than make concord killable and possible to defend from. Very hard, but possible. Atm. they have infinite stats compared to player ships.


Oh and FYI, early on it was possible to kill CONCORD ships (or so I was told by some real old-timers). Eventually CONCORD was buffed to be unkillable. Another buff was a reduction in response times. Then insta-scramming, that is once you engage in a criminal activity you cannot warp off. Used to be you could...not that it would save you.

The problem here is not the game, but the OP. The OP is ignorant of how the game works. HS is the safest space in the game, however it is not "safe" in the sense of avoiding combat. This is how the game was designed on purpose.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

#23 - 2017-05-16 19:08:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
For the OP
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4972885#post4972885

Blade Darth wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
permanently hunted by CONCORD
Awesome idea, more realism (like police irl, hunts baddies everywhere) but than make concord killable and possible to defend from. Very hard, but possible. Atm. they have infinite stats compared to player ships.
Aside from Concord not actually being a Police force but more of a UN type organisation; the Police would be the Faction Police, you can already evade or beat them.

Anyways, more RL police like activities you say?

Random response times varying from minutes to days, if at all.
Corrupt police officers on the take from criminals.
An arrest rate much lower than the current 100%.
Officers confiscating high value items for "investigative reasons".

Sounds good right?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Limited Expectations
#24 - 2017-05-16 19:18:15 UTC
Very. I can already hear the CNN report
Player ship confiscated "for being too expensive" by corrupt AI in an online game.
Goonswarm Federation
#25 - 2017-05-16 19:37:46 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
For the OP
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4972885#post4972885

Blade Darth wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
permanently hunted by CONCORD
Awesome idea, more realism (like police irl, hunts baddies everywhere) but than make concord killable and possible to defend from. Very hard, but possible. Atm. they have infinite stats compared to player ships.
Aside from Concord not actually being a Police force but more of a UN type organisation; the Police would be the Faction Police, you can already evade or beat them.

Anyways, more RL police like activities you say?

Random response times varying from minutes to days, if at all.
Corrupt police officers on the take from criminals.
An arrest rate much lower than the current 100%.
Officers confiscating high value items for "investigative reasons".

Sounds good right?


And let's not forget excessive use of force. You linger in space too long, CONCORD shows up and start's hassling you. You get to difficult they just blap you and head to the donut shop.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2017-05-16 20:21:59 UTC
RainbowDashC22 Shiratori wrote:
Code wasn't a problem 15 years ago,

They're not now. It's almost trivially easy to avoid their attacks as it is, yet you seem to want to make it even easier. The fact that you're suggesting nerfs suggests you don't actually know how to use the tools you already have at your disposal.

Quote:
I point out a problem, I give a solution. And while you tell me my solution is bad and wrong, you give nothing in it's place.

Implying that there's a problem. People PvPing each other in a PvP sandbox is hardly unexpaected or problematic behaviour.

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They exploit that they can lose and replace ships for free using alts to fund them while new players would not have access to that.

It's not an exploit. The ships the gank with are not free. Why can't newbies earn money with an alt?

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Warping in a Pod is near instant, and they can freely warp away from their destroyed ship without fear of ever being targeted and killed.

So? Most gankers' pods are empty, their losses inconsequential. If criminal pods cannot dock or leave system, you'll just see gankers self-destructing their pods to get back into a clone in a (valid) station.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein

Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2017-05-16 20:26:42 UTC
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They can enter into any nearby station and escape harm or retribution from everyone, even Concord, until the Criminal timer is removed and then they can repeat the process all over again.

Once a criminal attracts CONCORD's eye, there is no escape.

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There is only ONE way for you to 'Defend' against that in High Sec, and that's to be in a Corp, and have the Corp or Alliance declare war on the Corp or Alliance that the Ganker is in.

Wrong. War decs do nothing to deter gankers. Wars only allow you to legally attack other players, but gankers may be freely attacked at any time, anyway, rendering wars against them pointless.

Defending against gankers is as simple as flying modest and fitting a decent buffer tank. Yup, that's it! 99.9% of all potential ganks dealt with, right there.

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However, they can very easily just leave their Corps, forced into a NPC Corp that you can not declare war on, and freely go about untouched. Because as soon as you try to stop them, YOU become the Criminal and killed by Concord.

You should probably learn about the mechanics that impact gankers already, before suggesting crippling, sweeping changes to them.

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Most of the Restricts are already in the game. I just wish to extend the Restrictions to not leave till they lose their Criminal Status by Death of the Player/Pod. Not by a very short timer.

So criminals just self destruct after every gank, now.

Quote:
Suicide ganking without profit just to **** off people and upset them shouldn't be part of the game. There is no reward, no benifit. Just a bunch of players being Bullies and exploiting the game so that legit players not wanting to become criminals can do nothing about it.

Shooting space ships in a space ship shooting game? Literally Hitler!

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein

Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2017-05-16 20:31:33 UTC
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Legit players, and new players get punished for no reason, and the gankers gain nothing but the ability to become terrorists and the ability to keep doing it again and again.

Then stop them, you have the tools at your disposal.

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Here is literally something they can do, but surprised I haven't witnessed them doing.

They can buy a bunch of ganking ships, fit them all up, and then move them all into a High Sec system they want to Terrorize and 'Control' in the case of CODE. Then they go out in their ganking ship, kill a player and lose their ship, Warp back to their station, wait out the Timer and then go out in a new ship instantly to repeat within a few minutes. And if he leaves his Corp for this time period, Corps and Alliances would not be able to War him to be able to attack him before he suicides kills his victum and them warps back to station unharmed once again.

Gankers gank immediately after their criminal timers all the time. Gankers don't leave their corps because they don't need to, because being in an NPC corp offers literally no protection, owing to their low sec status.

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There is NOTHING to prevent this from happening. Just 'Losing the Ship' is the only punishment, but when they can be replaced so easily, especially with an alt loaded with money, or having a lot of IRL money to spend on PLEX to sell for in game money, losing a ship just isn't enough of a punishment. Even them being killed in a pod wouldn't be a punishment. They lose NOTHING, but the victims lose EVERYTHING. It is NOT a FAIR system.

The victims lose their ships, just as the gankers do, they don't lose everything. Being ganked in HiSec doesn't magically destroy everything you own on your account. I'm not sure why you'd think this.

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This is, ultimately down to it's core, what I want. For the system to be FAIR.

Wish granted; it already is.

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In Low Sec, Null, and WH ganking is not cried about or cared about, because it's FAIR in those system. But in High Sec, the system is stacked in the Ganker's favor and totally unfair.

HiSec is far more difficult for gankers to live in than for any other type of player in any other area of the game. Well, except for maybe lone-wolf types trying to survive in hostile null sec or something.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein

#29 - 2017-05-16 20:46:43 UTC
You want to be able to defend against gankers, you want a LONGER timer before they get Concorded. The longer the timer the more likely you are to be able to defend against them, because they will bring the right number of ships for the timer (give or take some slack margin)
#30 - 2017-05-16 20:58:17 UTC  |  Edited by: RainbowDashC22 Shiratori
Teckos Pech wrote:
Oh I see, you are posting because of that retriever loss to CODE. You had no tank. And let me guess you were either AFK or semi-AFK and watching Netflix of something, right?

And if you have the skills for a retriever why were you not in a procurer? You have the skills for it and you can fit a pretty big tank on it making you impervious to being ganked by CODE. Yes, you won’t mine as much, but then you can mine and watch Netflix.


While yes, losing my Retriever is what triggered me bringing this up to the Forums, it isn't just me I am 'Crying About'. I was not afk, and was with a fleet of 7 people, including 3 other miners and 2 escort to protect us since CODE was in the system.

However, because you can not attack someone until they attacked and became criminals first, my Corp members could only watch helplessly as I reacted too late to try and warp out before I was killed, turning the CODE member a criminal finally, and THEN be able to be attacked.

But of course, as soon as he lost his ship, his pod warped into a station to sit out the timer. And even with me and 7 Corp members surrounding the Station waiting, as soon as the timer left and he came out, he was no longer a Criminal and thus we could not touch him, and had to let him warp away.

I do have a Kill Right on him, but not on his Alt. And whats more, the Kill Right would only give 1 free kill, and after that it's back to square 1, of not being able to defend against him till he attacks and kills someone first to be triggered as a Criminal.

--

Also to others, I know my 'Changes' are not perfect, so why not bring up suggestions to make it better? And if you say nothing needs to change, then either you don't play in High Sec, or you are blind. You say there is no problem, and yet every person I have ever talked about in High Sec about CODE hates them and says there is a problem. Just because they aren't storming to the Forums about it doesn't mean there isn't something wrong.

Another thing I keep pointing out tho, is that what CODE does is NOT Piracy. They aren't Ganking people for Profit, they don't have a friend or alt there to loot the bodies. They kill Miners to install fear in the belief that they rule over High Sec, no one else. And isn't it just the tiniest little bit ****** up that they can run around unchallenged in High Sec, where as in Low, Null, or WH Corps would be able to shut them down instantly?

CODE, the ability that they exist and can do this at all, shows that High Sec is broken, and needs change. And the changes I added in, as I stated before, Were already in the game, they exist already. The Devs would just need to change how they were set up.

And so players like Hiasa Kite who say things like: "Then stop them, you have the tools at your disposal." I would love to point out that you say we can stop them, that we have the tools, but you never say HOW we can actually STOP THEM, and not just use a Tanking Miner or run away scared when they show up, because that doesn't stop them. That just gives them what they want, Control over High Sec.

How about you actually tell us what we can do to 'Stop Them', and what 'Tools' we can use. Cause I've already pointed out that most normal tools at our disposal won't work. And using a Tanking Ship in the end won't work, because since they don't care about the lose of their ships, they will just bring in more bigger and powerful ships to kill you.
Limited Expectations
#31 - 2017-05-16 21:18:50 UTC
It's awesome you thought of protection, not afk. and were in a fleet. Way exceeded my expectations and it's more than most players do, even outside of HS. Putting trigger issues aside, I see a bright future for You.

The retriever has abysmal tank and can implode when something comes out of warp 2 systems away, giving your fleet no time to respond. You can more than double your tank by fitting a damage control and a shield extender (maybe some t1 rigs), in which case a single catalyst would not be able to kill you. Or use a procurer, less risk (4-10x more tank) for less isk.
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2017-05-16 21:39:34 UTC
RainbowDashC22 Shiratori wrote:
While yes, losing my Retriever is what triggered me bringing this up to the Forums, it isn't just me I am 'Crying About'. I was not afk, and was with a fleet of 7 people, including 3 other miners and 2 escort to protect us since CODE was in the system.

CODE. was in system, you knew and attempted to react to their presence, but did so, poorly. You would've been better off re-shipping to procurers, even your escort. That would've resulted in you all collectively making more money AND safer. Win-win for you, lose-lose for CODE. (except they always win, always).

Quote:
However, because you can not attack someone until they attacked and became criminals first

Wrong. You've missed this statement from both myself and Black Pedro so allow me to highlight it for you. PLAYERS WITH A LOW SECURITY STATUS (BELOW -5.0) CAN BE FREELY ENGAGED AT ANY TIME, WITHOUT CONCORD INTERVENTION.

We clear?

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, my Corp members could only watch helplessly as I reacted too late to try and warp out before I was killed, turning the CODE member a criminal finally, and THEN be able to be attacked.

Why weren't you pre-aligned - particularly seeing as you knew gankers were in system? Why weren't you (or at least someone in your fleet) mashing d-scan to get a warning of an incoming gank fleet - particularly seeing as you knew gankers were in system? Why had you not re-shipped - particularly seeing as you knew gankers were in system? Why did you not react to the neutral scout that was sitting in belt with you? If there was no neutral scout, congratulations, you have a spai.

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But of course, as soon as he lost his ship, his pod warped into a station to sit out the timer.

Why do you care? Pods are literally free and it's a safe bet he didn't have any implants to lose.

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And even with me and 7 Corp members surrounding the Station waiting, as soon as the timer left and he came out, he was no longer a Criminal and thus we could not touch him, and had to let him warp away.

Please learn about game mechanics before QQing about them.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein

Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2017-05-16 21:43:21 UTC
Quote:
I do have a Kill Right on him, but not on his Alt. And whats more, the Kill Right would only give 1 free kill, and after that it's back to square 1, of not being able to defend against him till he attacks and kills someone first to be triggered as a Criminal.

Or just not flagging yourself as an easy target. I feel like I, and others, have been excruciatingly clear on this point.

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Also to others, I know my 'Changes' are not perfect, so why not bring up suggestions to make it better?

Because you haven't even highlighted a problem that needs a change. The first thing you need to do is learn the game mechanics and how to use them to your advantage.

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And if you say nothing needs to change, then either you don't play in High Sec, or you are blind.

Or we have a better understanding on how to play EVE than you do.

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You say there is no problem, and yet every person I have ever talked about in High Sec about CODE hates them and says there is a problem.

Morons and carebears think there is a problem. Competent players are pretty happy with how balanced the game is (on the ganker vs target argument).

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Another thing I keep pointing out tho, is that what CODE does is NOT Piracy. They aren't Ganking people for Profit, they don't have a friend or alt there to loot the bodies. They kill Miners to install fear in the belief that they rule over High Sec, no one else.

You need to read James 315's manifesto, in addition to learning game mechanics.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein

#34 - 2017-05-16 21:49:34 UTC
Hiasa Kite wrote:
[quote]
You need to read James 315's manifesto, in addition to learning game mechanics.

That 'manifesto' is the largest joke ever, written purely to victim blame rather than being able to admit they just want to gank for the LOLS. Lets not advertise that as something that ever should be listened to.
#35 - 2017-05-16 21:57:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
RainbowDashC22 Shiratori wrote:
While yes, losing my Retriever is what triggered me bringing this up to the Forums, it isn't just me I am 'Crying About'. I was not afk, and was with a fleet of 7 people, including 3 other miners and 2 escort to protect us since CODE was in the system.

However, because you can not attack someone until they attacked and became criminals first, my Corp members could only watch helplessly as I reacted too late to try and warp out before I was killed, turning the CODE member a criminal finally, and THEN be able to be attacked.
Your escort could have almost certainly popped at least one of a CODE gank squad without repercussions due to their probable sec status. Furthermore, if you mine when CODE are in system at least one of you should be d-scanning for incoming gankers, you should be gone when they arrive if you're doing it right; either that or be waiting with a Skiff/Procurer ball of drone death Twisted

Quote:
Another thing I keep pointing out tho, is that what CODE does is NOT Piracy. They aren't Ganking people for Profit, they don't have a friend or alt there to loot the bodies. They kill Miners to install fear in the belief that they rule over High Sec, no one else. And isn't it just the tiniest little bit ****** up that they can run around unchallenged in High Sec, where as in Low, Null, or WH Corps would be able to shut them down instantly?
I would argue that they are ganking for profit, that profit being in the form of share purchases from people that find their antics amusing, have a financial interest and/or ulterior motive in those antics continuing, or any combination thereof. Those share purchases fund the SRP that CODE run, the shareholders profit in the form of tears, anguish, lols and posts/ideas like yours.

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CODE, the ability that they exist and can do this at all, shows that High Sec is broken, and needs change. And the changes I added in, as I stated before, Were already in the game, they exist already. The Devs would just need to change how they were set up.
How is hisec broken, and why? Bear in mind that CCP have put in a mechanic to specifically allow suicide ganking to happen, and that the risk of being suicide ganked is <1%, by a large margin.


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And so players like Hiasa Kite who say things like: "Then stop them, you have the tools at your disposal." I would love to point out that you say we can stop them, that we have the tools, but you never say HOW we can actually STOP THEM, and not just use a Tanking Miner or run away scared when they show up, because that doesn't stop them. That just gives them what they want, Control over High Sec.
To use their own tagline, The CODE always wins, always.

You fight, they win.
You tank, they win.
You don't go afk, they win.
You dock before going for a wazz, they win.
You whine on the forums, they win.
You go off the rails and look like an idiot in local, they win.
You become a law abiding citizen and purchase a permit, they win.

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How about you actually tell us what we can do to 'Stop Them', and what 'Tools' we can use. Cause I've already pointed out that most normal tools at our disposal won't work. And using a Tanking Ship in the end won't work, because since they don't care about the lose of their ships, they will just bring in more bigger and powerful ships to kill you.
You misunderstand the tools at your disposal, they're the same ones that they're using to kill you.

And yes a tankier ship does work, unless you're really unlucky, stupid, or have painted a target on your own back, a Skiff or Procurer will generally be left alone. It's simply not economical to chuck bigger ships, that you're 100% guaranteed to lose, at something that A: bites back, B: costs more in ships than the killmail is worth.

Not being an easy or profitable target, because you know how to use the tools at your disposal, is how you fight CODE; obviously, they win, but you don't lose either.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2017-05-16 21:58:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Hiasa Kite
Quote:
CODE, the ability that they exist and can do this at all, shows that High Sec is broken, and needs change.

Space ships shooting space ships in a space ship shooting game is not a sign it is broken. L2P.

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And so players like Hiasa Kite who say things like: "Then stop them, you have the tools at your disposal." I would love to point out that you say we can stop them, that we have the tools, but you never say HOW we can actually STOP THEM, and not just use a Tanking Miner or run away scared when they show up, because that doesn't stop them. That just gives them what they want, Control over High Sec.

How about you actually tell us what we can do to 'Stop Them', and what 'Tools' we can use. Cause I've already pointed out that most normal tools at our disposal won't work. And using a Tanking Ship in the end won't work, because since they don't care about the lose of their ships, they will just bring in more bigger and powerful ships to kill you.

No, they won't. In a nutshell, gankers look for tears or profit, preferring the latter over the former. If you don't QQ about getting ganked or BM in local, painting a target on your chest, they won't come for you unless they think you're an easy and/or profitable kill. Procurers sport immense tanks for a tiny loss in overall mining yield. That loss is a lot smaller than another fleet mate sitting in belt with you in a combat ship doing literally nothing.

Hell, if an escort is what you really insist on, why not have an ECM boat as escort? Griffin, loaded up with Gravimetric (Edit: Wrong! Magnetometric) jammers, plus maybe an AB, (total cost: ~500k) orbit an anchor ship at ~20km - impossible to kill without incurring much higher cost to yourself and highly effective at reducing cataylst (preferred gank ship against mining ships) DPS to zero. Remember: You don't need to blast them out of the sky, CONCORD will do that for you. All you need to do is prevent the damage from landing.

Use d-scan, 360 arc, ~1-2 AU range. When catalysts appear, click warp - you should be gone before they're even out of warp.

If no CODE are in system with you, let your guard down, select your AFK-friendly retriever and let it earn some cash. If the system you're mining in is a quiet one, it'll pay for itself long before you lose it. If you do lose it, so what? Grab another. If you're likely to see CODE in the near future, use the procurer. This way, you get the best of both worlds - slightly higher money with the retriever when things look safe, nigh unkillable when things look a little dodgy.

Never trust a neutral in belt with you. If you spot someone nearby, particularly if they seem intent on cuddling up with you, get the procurer out, they're likely a scout for the gankers.

Get to know your neighbours, particularly if you mine in a quiet system. You'll get to know the regulars: The mission runners and other miners just doing their own things. You'll start learning to be wary of unknown neutrals, they could be a scout, or a new ganker.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein

Goonswarm Federation
#37 - 2017-05-16 22:23:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
RainbowDashC22 Shiratori wrote:

Code wasn't a problem 15 years ago, and the rules in High Sec wasn't as exploited now as it was back then. I point out a problem, I give a solution. And while you tell me my solution is bad and wrong, you give nothing in it's place.

They exploit that they can lose and replace ships for free using alts to fund them while new players would not have access to that.

Warping in a Pod is near instant, and they can freely warp away from their destroyed ship without fear of ever being targeted and killed.

They can enter into any nearby station and escape harm or retribution from everyone, even Concord, until the Criminal timer is removed and then they can repeat the process all over again.

There is only ONE way for you to 'Defend' against that in High Sec, and that's to be in a Corp, and have the Corp or Alliance declare war on the Corp or Alliance that the Ganker is in. However, they can very easily just leave their Corps, forced into a NPC Corp that you can not declare war on, and freely go about untouched. Because as soon as you try to stop them, YOU become the Criminal and killed by Concord.

It is a loophole in the games system that they exploit to get around punishment in any form.

[snipp]

Suicide ganking without profit just to **** off people and upset them shouldn't be part of the game. There is no reward, no benifit. Just a bunch of players being Bullies and exploiting the game so that legit players not wanting to become criminals can do nothing about it.

Legit players, and new players get punished for no reason, and the gankers gain nothing but the ability to become terrorists and the ability to keep doing it again and again.

Here is literally something they can do, but surprised I haven't witnessed them doing.

They can buy a bunch of ganking ships, fit them all up, and then move them all into a High Sec system they want to Terrorize and 'Control' in the case of CODE. Then they go out in their ganking ship, kill a player and lose their ship, Warp back to their station, wait out the Timer and then go out in a new ship instantly to repeat within a few minutes. And if he leaves his Corp for this time period, Corps and Alliances would not be able to War him to be able to attack him before he suicides kills his victum and them warps back to station unharmed once again.

There is NOTHING to prevent this from happening. Just 'Losing the Ship' is the only punishment, but when they can be replaced so easily, especially with an alt loaded with money, or having a lot of IRL money to spend on PLEX to sell for in game money, losing a ship just isn't enough of a punishment. Even them being killed in a pod wouldn't be a punishment. They lose NOTHING, but the victims lose EVERYTHING. It is NOT a FAIR system.

This is, ultimately down to it's core, what I want. For the system to be FAIR. In Low Sec, Null, and WH ganking is not cried about or cared about, because it's FAIR in those system. But in High Sec, the system is stacked in the Ganker's favor and totally unfair. They aren't even pirates, they don't make any money from these ganking, they don't salvage or steal the loot from the corpses. These are, at their most basic, Terrorist attacks against players.


Lots of nonsense to unpack here….

First off, while CODE. did not exist years ago, there were events called Hulkageddon. It was a competition with prizes to those who achieved certain goals. Lots of mining ships died. As for CODE. themselves they are like a terrorist organization. They exist because of donations and possible freighter ganking to fund their miner ganking. This is completely legitimate game play in this game. This game is a competitive PvP sandbox game. A game that is supposed to give rise to emergent game play….like CODE.

As for replacing ships for “free” you are extremely ignorant of economics. If they use an alt to generate ISK to fund their ganking that is not “free” any more than you grinding for a new ship is free. And this is not an exploit it was designed this way on purpose.

And yeah, pods warp instantly, again by design. And NPCs have never engaged pods, again by design. And be careful what you wish for here. Players sometimes inadvertently engage in criminal behavior at times. All of these changes would apply to you…even when you might be in a pod with expensive implants. Oh and gankers don’t usually use expensive implants.

There is not “only one way” to defend against a ganker. If he is -5 or lower, just shoot him. Look to see if he has any kill rights. If so activate them and kill him.

As for a fair system…you are playing EVE, not Club Penguin. He brings 3 guys you should bring 6 or even better 10. Nothing says this game is about fair. Put a spy in his corp and when you have access rob him blind.

And no, things are not stacked in favor of ganking. Look, they need a fleet, comms, a bumper, a scanning ship and a loot hauler for ganking a freighter. Even when ganking a retriever the advantage is yours…if you pay attention. Have you set CODE. red via personal standings? Do you have local as it’s own separate window so you can see who is in local. Are you mining in a system with low occupancy so you can see when CODE. come into systems early on? And use a procurer. It is a T1 ship and it can fit a heck of a tank, and with the damage bonuses to drones it will pose a serious problem for most gankers unless they really, really want to get you. So stop sitting there and balling like a baby and claiming to be a helpless victim and grow a spine and figure out how not to be a victim.

And FFS, stop asking CCP to do that for you.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Goonswarm Federation
#38 - 2017-05-16 22:36:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
RainbowDashC22 Shiratori wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Oh I see, you are posting because of that retriever loss to CODE. You had no tank. And let me guess you were either AFK or semi-AFK and watching Netflix of something, right?

And if you have the skills for a retriever why were you not in a procurer? You have the skills for it and you can fit a pretty big tank on it making you impervious to being ganked by CODE. Yes, you won’t mine as much, but then you can mine and watch Netflix.


While yes, losing my Retriever is what triggered me bringing this up to the Forums, it isn't just me I am 'Crying About'. I was not afk, and was with a fleet of 7 people, including 3 other miners and 2 escort to protect us since CODE was in the system.

However, because you can not attack someone until they attacked and became criminals first, my Corp members could only watch helplessly as I reacted too late to try and warp out before I was killed, turning the CODE member a criminal finally, and THEN be able to be attacked.

But of course, as soon as he lost his ship, his pod warped into a station to sit out the timer. And even with me and 7 Corp members surrounding the Station waiting, as soon as the timer left and he came out, he was no longer a Criminal and thus we could not touch him, and had to let him warp away.

I do have a Kill Right on him, but not on his Alt. And whats more, the Kill Right would only give 1 free kill, and after that it's back to square 1, of not being able to defend against him till he attacks and kills someone first to be triggered as a Criminal.


Wait wut? You knew CODE. was in system and you kept mining in paper mache mining ships? Seriously? Were your escorts logistics ships? Shield logistics ships? Shield logi starts repping as soon as the rep cycle starts, this can screw up a gank. Here is another lesson you should learn, when a ship shows up in the belt and starts to get close to you…it may very well be providing a warp in for a gank dessie.

Seriously there are a number of lessons here for you and instead of shiptoasting you should have come and asked for advice on how not to be a victim. Use procurers, use shield logi if your are going to have an escort. Pre-lock everyone if your fleet if it is small enough, or pre-lock half if not and logi should pre-lock each other. Get on voice comes so you can communicate more quickly and effectively. If CODE. are in system…go somewhere else.

It is up to you to protect and defend your stuff, not CCPs. They have given you plenty of tools, yet you fail to utilize them. That is your fault, nobody else’s.

Edit: BTW, your rig slots were empty. Train rigging skills sooner rather than later. They can help a lot and are rather cheap these days. It is a nice way to add a bit of tank to a retriever, get a damage control too, and yeah your yield might go down, but how much are you mining when you are in a pod?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Goonswarm Federation
#39 - 2017-05-16 22:48:30 UTC
BTW, OP...you do know you can lock up that hostile even before he goes criminal. Just don't start shooting until he goes criminal. This way your escort can start shooting right away instead of waiting to acquire a target lock. Just tell the escorts to start spamming the lock button on the hostile.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Goonswarm Federation
#40 - 2017-05-16 23:02:21 UTC
RainbowDashC22 Shiratori wrote:

CODE, the ability that they exist and can do this at all, shows that High Sec is broken, and needs change. And the changes I added in, as I stated before, Were already in the game, they exist already. The Devs would just need to change how they were set up.


No, this is exactly what this game is supposed to do, it is an example of emergent game play. You are assuming the Devs didn’t set it up this way on purpose to allow exactly for this kind of thing. The Devs may not have had CODE. specifically in mind, but that HS as well as LS, NS and W-space are all places where emergent behavior can come about.

You need to understand the core philosophy of EVE. It was really pretty much, “Here is your noob ship, now **** off.” You went out there and did stuff, learned stuff, get killed by players further along the learning curve and in turn you learn too. Heck, those more “advanced” players will even give you advice if you behave reasonably and ask how you can avoid dying, combat, etc.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

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