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Strategic cruiser balance pass

Author
Amarr Empire
#741 - 2017-07-01 03:24:08 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
...I'm not sure if it's enough of a nerf or not, but I wouldn't call it a small one by any means, and it's not just to EHP.


Fair enough. I'll adopt a 'wait and see' approach then.
EVIAN NATION
#742 - 2017-07-01 09:36:48 UTC
It's all very secret & hush hush

I'm pretty sure the CIA are involved some how as well

CCP Please Don't Do This..

The Respawn Expansion

#743 - 2017-07-06 13:59:08 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Snip.


T3Cs post baltecs nerf will barely be able to run a 4/10 in HS.

Your anecdotal testimony of running 6/10s in a Mach is hardly relevant.

If you are so secure, happy and successful running 6/10s in Mach, that is the opposite of a reason to nerf T3Cs to be unable to do so too.



I cannot run higher either.

If this is the way the T3 Cruiser is going to go, fix the Nestor and add an SoCT ship with similar role capability:

Nestor:

-Designed around endgame PVE, exploration

-remove energy turret bonuses
-remove logi bonuses (seriously? a ship that can run data and relic but does remote repair? it's absurd)
-give it a Jump Portal Generator with limited range and heavy penalties to fatigue )to ensure it is primarily used for Superior Sleeper Caches and high DED's
-2-3 Missile hardpoints with penalties to HAMS
-Stick with the no covert design to avoid overshadowing the BlackOps boats
-%5 or %10 bonus to Energy Neuts and Nosfs
-Penalty to Warp Scrams and Disruptors


-Introduce a SoCT ship with a similar capability. A Jove ship at some point as well, all being endgame availability

-Put these out of reach of newbies! Make it very hard to skill into. The game is changing very quickly to meet the demand for instant gratification. With normal speeds and a balanced map, make it take a year to skill into

-Put T3D's, which are going to be the ship of choice now for old pros who are left with nothing after this end to the T3Cs far out of reach for young players. Rename T3Cs "tech1000" class or something, priced at around 10-40M a ship, drastically lower skill requirement, entice newbies to fly them so that Senior Capsuleers have pinatas.

-Increase the skill required for ALL SOE ships so that they are where they should be, in the hands of senior players. The Astero is one of the most potent ships in the game if you know what you are doing

-Recognize that Eve is a place for players that expect a higher level of everything in the game experience. They tend to be very different from other gamers. Don't open the flood gates to the masses, or New Eden will be lost. The masses want a game they can reach endgame state in 3 minutes and they don't want to think....they only want to click rapidly and watch the pretty lights flicker from the explosions. Remain true to the original audience, otherwise this will become an app on your android device that you play sitting on the can (although it would be nice to have a portal that lets you make use of this time)

-Respect and reward older players. The T3C's were a sort of retirement perk for many older capsules. They allowed them a level of security that was not easily breached. The car to take out for a Sunday stoll, pocket 500M isk, and park. I truly believe CCP will loose a fair amount of these subscribers because of these changes to T3s. If you can't accommodate the T3C as is but with a much higher skill requirement, at least have something available to this audience to replace it. None of the capitals can do this, an I for one have NO desire to fly them, they belong to large alliances in my book.

-Wormhole life is going to change. What are you going to do to shore up the hole left for small operators in WH space?

-Give younger players more gimmicky flashy options to skill into as a sort of decoy. It gives them instant Gratification while ensuring older players maintain status

-Giant nulsec alliances don't like these ships because they feel vulnerable by them. They should! Why do they seem to have all the influence with CCP!?
-The T3C's should BE the ship that can take a capital. It's simple, don't leave your capital ships vulnerable. If you fly them and don't have the ability to back them, you should have to deal with the consequences.
-Keep the nature like sand box a sand box! yes of course there will be some imbalance! Older Alpha Dawgs are on top for a reason, the made the right choices. Let them have it! Make it take a great deal of time for young players to invest to be able to challenge.

-Both the stealth bombers and the Combat Recons are literally useless for anything other than scouting now if used solo. But you might forget that the stealthy snipey nature of the the players who choose to fly them.... are... you guessed it, most likely to want to fly solo! It's too bad a penalty to couldn't be introduced to these ships that only comes into effect when there are more than one of these on grid. THAT would make the game interesting! Have them interfere with one another's fields or something.
#744 - 2017-07-07 08:20:24 UTC
Ive only tried Loki on Serenity.

Its DPS is anemic, unless you overheat the entire rack.

T3Cs are becoming Overheat specialists.

This is contrary if the purpose was to nerf them especially for PvP, as they can still overperform in short bursts but now cant sustain appreciable dps in extended PvE engagements.

Loki tops out at 800dps on full overheat, whereas a Stratios can manage 700 sustained (albeit drones arent constant damage) with comparable tank and sig, but less speed.

Ive already started skilling into Stratios on my alts for a Stratios multifleet to run PvE content.
#745 - 2017-07-09 06:58:32 UTC
oiukhp Muvila wrote:
Yeah, Strategic Cruisers could have been done better, but they have waited far too long to balance them.

I think CCP should clearly map out expected EHP and DPS ranges for the various classes and stick to it, even if it means expanding T1 BS to over 1200 dps to make room for future advancements in Med turret ships in the future.

No med turret hull should have dps close to a lg turret regardless of tech level.

Of course that would mean a re-vist of nearly all ships DPS output.

Ideas:(with full short-range turret loadout with 1-3 dmg mods + std drones for hull)

Sm turret hulls: up to 400 dps, t1 baseline 250 dps.

Med turret hulls: up to 900 dps, t1 baseline 550 dps.

Lg turret hulls: up to 2000 dps, t1 baseline 1250 dps.



Of course that damage range could be expanded even more to give more room between med hull max dps and the t1 Lg turret baseline.


Yes at this point I would have to agree. After seeing how the t3c went from blissful and perfect for a no skill player like myself to use for survivability, to fool hardy to fly... I think that if we are so concerned about imbalance all the time then there should be set classes with set base specs and stick to it! This so far has been my number one frustration in the game. Oh and to boot, T3Cs have no business having nullification, it takes all the sport out of the use. I have a VLY for that to haul booty. The T3C nullified makes it an entirely different beast, and is the single most imbalanced feature of the category. To me, ironically though, the time to warp is so bad as is the tank... That the ship will almost certainly not survive an instalock camp, which defeats the purpose of nullification in the first place. So get rid of this whole concept and leave it for its proper class. With the resists so low now, and the drastic tank reduction, why would one not choose a T3D instead? I haven't compared the specs side by side but the T3D also has a much more convenient mode change layout. I did notice yesterday on SISI that the Tenth has a subsystem bay. Does anyone know if this is going to stay? And what the hell happened to the tractor beam??? I did actually like the idea of salvaging with this, as the noct is cumbersome and awkward to use. Did they can this feature? I really hope not. Heheh if they did I bet the bonus in place will be another sig rad increase lol but yeah, I think CCP should poll potential T3C users (because not many current users will continue to use) and ask them with the specs in place, if they want nullification. I bet almost everyone says no.
#746 - 2017-07-11 01:41:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Karl Jerr
Tried one of my pve fit Proteus with a sisi Pyfa, with about the same config @lv5 all for fair comparison:

therm shield goes from 65% to 47.5%
effective EHP goes from 105k to 67.6k
dps/volley stay the same, railgun range stay the same but they take less power and cpu to fit
it gains hull points??
but lose about 39.05% in armor point

speed -55m/s
+1 target (6 vs the old 5)
a bit more of targeting range/scan res/sensor str
signature goes to 172 vs old 151 Shocked (w/ mid grade halo)
more align time: 8.15s vs the old 7.45........

I don't know what to think of the EHP, the rest is OK for me excepted the bloom in sig (w/o the halos: it goes at 200 vs the old 176, I find that... excessive)
And the drop of speed, and growth of align; please it's a cruiser not a BC!

Well it's a lotsa of nerfs. I will continue to use it since I love the Proteus but I need to study more the subsytems before
Mixed feeling What? but n ot a surprising one... but hey enjoy, we can switch of rigs now... Roll

NB: oh yeah it gain a fourth midslot, and lost one low slot vs the old fit, a-w-e-s-o-m-e, especially for an armor fit

NB last: the drones of the fit have changed too: capacity: 50m3 vs old 75m3 bandwidth 25mbits/s vs old 50mbits/s
same drone range
bye bye my hammerheads...
#747 - 2017-07-11 02:10:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Karl Jerr
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#748 - 2017-07-14 01:01:58 UTC
After playing with the fits, I see no reason to use a T3 in PVP, and not much of one for running sites. For ships that cost 400 mil + they are terrible. (not including the skill point lose if you lose one)
Minmatar Republic
#749 - 2017-07-14 04:20:08 UTC
So what are T3s good for now besides reprocessing into something useful.? I'd put forth an effort to find out for myself but I'm finding it hard to find a reason to play any more.

Whomever is making the last few years decisions on what changes are to be implemented in this game, must hate Eve with all their being.

Amarr Empire
#750 - 2017-07-14 04:44:41 UTC
Alea wrote:
So what are T3s good for now besides reprocessing into something useful.? I'd put forth an effort to find out for myself but I'm finding it hard to find a reason to play any more.


IN my humble opinion the nerf was excessive in EHP; now is a mix of Astero / Prospect / Interceptor with more cost. I begin to ponder what is the niche they are filling, but for many users Black Ops sonund more attractive for the escape cyno. The campers in fountain remain using tengu, but the normal users i know fly tengus, switch to rattlesnake.

All character bazaar done. Finally 39 pilot and 3 can be killed later. This account will be used only for forum interaction, fly safe.

Pandemic Legion
#751 - 2017-07-14 11:30:07 UTC
Legion and Loki are now horribly overpowered, get training into them.
Amarr Empire
#752 - 2017-07-14 14:40:51 UTC
I had three pilots for Tengu and one for all the four t3C. In a month i go to extract the three tengu only.

What a mess.

All character bazaar done. Finally 39 pilot and 3 can be killed later. This account will be used only for forum interaction, fly safe.

Caldari State
#753 - 2017-07-14 14:58:51 UTC
I love these tears.

T3Cs were so retardedly OP for so long that now T3C pilots are losing their minds that they aren't OP anymore.

It's like the rich guy screaming that he's going to starve because he ran out of lobster and steak, and won't settle for a ham sandwich.

Our alliance has found many ways for T3Cs to become ridiculously OP with these changes. We'll be waiting a few months before we start getting people into them though, in case they get nerfed again. Personally, I hate T3Cs so I hope they do get nerfed again. I'ma be really sad if doctrine changes force me into one.
#754 - 2017-07-17 21:56:31 UTC
Old Pervert wrote:
I love these tears.

T3Cs were so retardedly OP for so long that now T3C pilots are losing their minds that they aren't OP anymore.

It's like the rich guy screaming that he's going to starve because he ran out of lobster and steak, and won't settle for a ham sandwich.

Our alliance has found many ways for T3Cs to become ridiculously OP with these changes. We'll be waiting a few months before we start getting people into them though, in case they get nerfed again. Personally, I hate T3Cs so I hope they do get nerfed again. I'ma be really sad if doctrine changes force me into one.





Good quote right there. We paid for a Lobster and Steak, and now they gave us a hamburger and fake crabmeat. Don't know about you but when I pay for something I would like to have it.
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