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Looking to get into Indy.... 20b to invest... any suggestions

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Amarr Empire
#1 Posted: 2012.01.29 14:41
Like the title says Im looking to get into Industry. I have been PVPing for the last 3 years and I'm tired of being broke. I have sold one of my pilots and now im looking to invest that 20b into a pilot and some blueprints (subcap or capital). anyone have suggestions for me.

thanks
Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
#2 Posted: 2012.01.29 16:49
I don't think anyone is going to invite the 20 billion isk wolf into their personal industry space, so you won't get an optimal idea from the forums - you may of course get many propositions of various levels of honesty for someone to use your money on their behalf.

The most profitable thing changes, but if I had billions I wanted to make a reasonable percentage low effort profit on, I'd do reactions or research, not t1 manufacturing (bearing in mind where you'd have to site (and potentially defend) a reaction tower, or have standings for a highsec research tower).

To be honest if a solid chunk of that 20bil is applied to source materials, you'll probably have to spread across several things to avoid flooding whatever it is that you do, and you'll have to face the task of being a shop keeper at some point.
Amarr Empire
#3 Posted: 2012.01.29 17:27
most of the 20b would prolly go towards a pilot

im just not sure if building T2 or T3 ships are even worth it anymore... is the only way to make alot of isk in trading?

#4 Posted: 2012.01.29 17:36
20b is not enough to supply an elite industry char with materials for 7 days Big smile
Its hard to give a direct answer to such a broad question. But we will try at least.

If you want to get into industry then it's best to start with something simple and then work your way trough the information madness.

I'm good with Planetary Interaction and can answer questions related to that more accurately. T1 Manufacturing is so simple that it doesn't need much explanation.

What do you want to do? [chose an option]

- Manufacturing T1
- Manufacturing T2
- Manufacturing T3
- Invention
- Reverse Engineering
- Reactions
- Planetary Interaction
- Trading
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Amarr Empire
#5 Posted: 2012.01.29 18:10
T1/T2 production just doesnt seemprofitable unless you mine the ore yourself or have somone sell you minerals cheaper then jita price (which never happens)

Same thing with T3 production basicaally the same deal as T1 (but gas reaction and nanofiber prices instead of minerals)

PI just doesnt seem profitable at all even though theres not much work to do

Ive done reactions before but i dont want to have to worry about defending a pos in lowsec anymore

never tried reverse engineering

only trading i have done is take some stuff from jita and supply a few 0.0 hubs



#6 Posted: 2012.01.29 18:25
oh well ccp ate my post and it was too long to bother typing again
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#7 Posted: 2012.01.29 18:36
for umalt wrote:
T1/T2 production just doesnt seemprofitable unless you mine the ore yourself or have somone sell you minerals cheaper then jita price (which never happens)

Same thing with T3 production basicaally the same deal as T1 (but gas reaction and nanofiber prices instead of minerals)

PI just doesnt seem profitable at all even though theres not much work to do

Ive done reactions before but i dont want to have to worry about defending a pos in lowsec anymore

never tried reverse engineering

only trading i have done is take some stuff from jita and supply a few 0.0 hubs





Not true.

As long as you have decent skills and blueprints, that is.

As for getting minerals below jita prices, this is dead easy. Buy orders. But that's a trade profit, not a manufacturing profit. Just don't make drakes.
Amarr Empire
#8 Posted: 2012.01.29 18:53
Well now, how about this for an insight?

You've claimed to be a "PVP pilot" for the last three years?
Take a look at what your buying habits for those three years . . . what did you need primarily and when?

More importantly, how were your spending habits influenced by your locations - i.e. were you willing to pay a premium for goods available close by rather than have to make the painstaking journey of traveling to the nearest market hub?

It's not that hard if you put your mind and some effort to it.
Obviously your original pitch at help would be futile taken at face value like that Roll
Minmatar Republic
#9 Posted: 2012.01.29 19:00
for umalt wrote:
T1/T2 production just doesnt seem profitable unless you mine the ore yourself


You have already failed industry 101. Minerals you mine are not free.

You said you have supplied items to 0.0 tradehubs before. Why not try making a few of these items, instead of importing them. Since you should already know the demand and prices for these items, you wouldn't be starting from scratch.
#10 Posted: 2012.01.29 19:16  |  Edited by: Invictra Atreides
Ye I know Straight

When you try a bit in some industry field then you quickly find out that running lvl 3 missions pays more than anything in industry. But don't give up. If you stick to your desired profession and gather all the market data, the production requirements, work per day info, risk vs reward then you will find out that sometimes some of the nonprofitable things can give you billions per month.

I know more about PI so I'll try to calculate how much PI could pay out:
1 Account (3 characters)

HighSec
- P1 or P2 production
- 15-35 min of work per day
- pays from 300-600 mil per month

Low Sec
- Same as above but 1.8x more profit

Null/WH
- Same as above but 2.5x more profit and 50% less time invested

Owning a POCO with 0% Tax (LowSec/Null/WH)
- all profits are boosted by 10% for every production step.
- P1 --> P2 10% profit increase
- P1 --> P3 20% profit increase
- P1 --> P4 30% profit increase

It should work like that probably (the concept) What?

Ok but lets do a practical calculation:
- you buy P2 items and then produce them to P4
- you have 3 maxed characters
- you own all the POCOs related to your production

1 P4 needs:
- 20x P2 A
- 20x P2 B
- 20x P2 C
- 20x P2 D
- 20x P2 E
- 20x P2 F

20x P2 (A+B) --> 6x P3 A [10% Tax of 7.000 isk/unit] = Profit 42.000 isk from Tax
20x P2 (C+D) --> 6x P3 B [10% Tax of 7.000 isk/unit] = Profit 42.000 isk from Tax
20x P2 (E+F) --> 6x P3 C [10% Tax of 7.000 isk/unit] = Profit 42.000 isk from Tax

126.000 isk profit

6x P3 (A+B+C) --> 1x P4 [10% Tax of 135.000 isk/unit]

Combined: 261.000 isk profit per day




Ok 1 P4 gives a profit of 261.000 isk. So how many can we produce with 3 maxed characters ? 2 or 3 it depends on the P4 produced. But lets say we can do 2 per planet.

Here it comes Twisted
(2x P4 Productions)*18Planets*24hr*30days

6.765.120.000 ISK profit per month [profit because you don't pay Tax]






When you get that hardcore in PI and use multiple accounts and watch out to not float the market then you can say its one of the most lucrative things to do in EVE. Sure at this point its not anymore passive income. A lot of work to keep it all running. But yes it is possible to buy your 20bil character with the work of 3 Accounts(54 Planets) in 1 month! No secrets told here. Just putting numbers trough my head and writing them down.


PS
Ctrl+C Saved this Post from vanishing into the ether Shocked

EDIT:
Avylene your Avatar has a killer look. Love those Eyes.
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"I don’t know everything, I just know what I know."
Amarr Empire
#11 Posted: 2012.01.29 19:35
damn... good amount of income

at that point i would just grab 3 tengu pilots and have them perma run c4 WH's

what im looking to do is to have 1 pilot get the most "passive" (please take this word with a grain of salt) income as possible

ie. get 10 capital componant BPO's or BS BPO's already researched and just have them perma run


id like to spend most of my time having fun not going nuts making sure i log in 9 pilots at the exact same time every day and switching over my PI
#12 Posted: 2012.01.29 19:39
Part of the fun of being an indy pilot is figuring out whats profitable and what isn't.
Signature removed, CCP Phantom
#13 Posted: 2012.01.29 20:36
Hehe ^_^ Keep providing more info on how you want to play it out. That way we can also give you better and more accurate guidance.

So you want to be a lazy Industrialist. Roll
[Be the one that gets his share but doesn't ruin the market for others] - The lazy Industrialist


Anyway click on this Link. Enter "Capital" into the search field.
The site claims that "Capital Shield Booster I" would make 328,331 ISK/h which is 236.398.320 ISK/month.

Don't forget that a character can have 11 production slots.

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Minmatar Republic
#14 Posted: 2012.01.30 04:30
for umalt wrote:
damn... good amount of income

at that point i would just grab 3 tengu pilots and have them perma run c4 WH's

what im looking to do is to have 1 pilot get the most "passive" (please take this word with a grain of salt) income as possible

ie. get 10 capital componant BPO's or BS BPO's already researched and just have them perma run


id like to spend most of my time having fun not going nuts making sure i log in 9 pilots at the exact same time every day and switching over my PI


Build fighters/fighter bombers and work out a ratio between selling in Jita and at your alliances capital base. (Depending where you are you might want to list these on alliance contracts).
Gallente Federation
#15 Posted: 2012.01.30 05:36
Believe it or not, there ARE profits to be made out there in both T1 and T2. To be honest, nobody can tell you more than that other than "do your homework". What is profitable to build and sell changes from month to month.

That being said:

1) T1 is simple, but margins are low. There is money to be made here, but you need to apply leverage in order to make any real money here (this is due to the law of very large numbers - a small fraction of a very large number is still a large number).

2) T2 is more complex, requires significant investment and involves significant risk. Profit margins are higher, but POSes are WHINEY bitches. Not to mention that a POS is a liability - it is always in danger of getting reinforced. It helps to make friends with the locals.

3) T3 is similar to T2 except that your raw materials come from wormholes which have their own set of logistical problems -on top of that whole "people can shoot you or your POSes whenever they want to" bit.

4) I'm not familiar with booster production, but from what I understand the demand is low and supply is generally controlled by whoever owns the 0.0 COSMOS constellations. Tough for new individuals to elbow their way into the market.

5) PI pretty much depends on access to a POCO to gain an edge over the mass of high sec operators. You COULD do high sec PI for a slim profit, but I doubt you want to spend 20 billion ISK just to do that.

6) Trading has the highest potential reward, but also the highest risk. You could make billions, or you could lose billions. Only go this route if you are going to do your homework, and actually WATCH your profitability. Compare with other professions where you will always be profitable on average so long as you diversify.
Amarr Empire
#16 Posted: 2012.01.30 11:57
Taedrin wrote:
Believe it or not, there ARE profits to be made out there in both T1 and T2. To be honest, nobody can tell you more than that other than "do your homework". What is profitable to build and sell changes from month to month.

That being said:

1) T1 is simple, but margins are low. There is money to be made here, but you need to apply leverage in order to make any real money here (this is due to the law of very large numbers - a small fraction of a very large number is still a large number).

2) T2 is more complex, requires significant investment and involves significant risk. Profit margins are higher, but POSes are WHINEY bitches. Not to mention that a POS is a liability - it is always in danger of getting reinforced. It helps to make friends with the locals.

3) T3 is similar to T2 except that your raw materials come from wormholes which have their own set of logistical problems -on top of that whole "people can shoot you or your POSes whenever they want to" bit.

4) I'm not familiar with booster production, but from what I understand the demand is low and supply is generally controlled by whoever owns the 0.0 COSMOS constellations. Tough for new individuals to elbow their way into the market.

5) PI pretty much depends on access to a POCO to gain an edge over the mass of high sec operators. You COULD do high sec PI for a slim profit, but I doubt you want to spend 20 billion ISK just to do that.

6) Trading has the highest potential reward, but also the highest risk. You could make billions, or you could lose billions. Only go this route if you are going to do your homework, and actually WATCH your profitability. Compare with other professions where you will always be profitable on average so long as you diversify.



thanks
#17 Posted: 2012.01.30 13:42
for umalt wrote:
what im looking to do is to have 1 pilot get the most "passive" (please take this word with a grain of salt) income as possible


I take that with a grain of salt but you need to be aware that investing time in industry is necessary to hit decent returns. A big chunk of that time will be spent in researching what works best for you.


For instance, I use PI as passive income.

I get around 250 million isk per pilot doing PI in lowsec, but, unlike Invictra I spend:

5-10 minutes per week per pilot, hauling once a month for maybe an additional 30 minutes per pilot... in all around an hour per pilot for 250 million isk. Not entirely passive, but 250 million ISK / hour is not bad.

But I have optimized my PI setups for minimal effort as opposed to optimizing them for profit.


Another "passive" form of income which gives some revenue is keeping T2 BPOs in action. Buy a couple of ammo T2 BPOs and just crank the handle to make some iskies. ROI will be very low but you can always sell the T2 BPO again afterwards.
Brave Collective
#18 Posted: 2012.01.30 13:58
If I had 20bil, I'd probably wait a little longer, keep an eye on dev blogs.

The second they confirm they're replacing drone poop with bounties I'd buy up as much nocxium as I could get my grubby mits on, possibly saving a 5-7bil isk pool for market manipulation later on.

I'd then ship it all to Jita, wait till the patch with that change comes into effect, then flood the market at my price, buying up the undercutters and relisting at my price.

I love a spot of hysteria though :)
#19 Posted: 2012.01.30 18:33
for umalt wrote:
T1/T2 production just doesnt seemprofitable unless you mine the ore yourself


I like this person.

You go right on thinking that.
Brothers of Tangra
#20 Posted: 2012.01.30 18:36
Not sure if anyonehas said this but with 10bill you might be able to buy t2ammo blue prints than youcanjust copy that sell it

or manufactor it your self and sell. Worst case youresell the bpo when your done and call it a good day
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