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Long Term Investment Opportunity

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Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1 Posted: 2012.02.09 22:32
Greetings MD Forum!

I am here to negotiate the acquisition of more capital so that I may launch my grand scheme to get rich in EVE and begin generating ISK much faster than I have been able to in the past. I haven't posted in MD too much (once or twice? Not sure) but I'm on the forums quite a bit. Should you have any questions about what I am planning, or would like more information, please don't hesitate to either send me a message OR post here on the forums. I have no need to be vague (except about a few small details, as I will note) so if I forgot something, please let me know.

Who am I, and who is it that is requesting this loan?


I am Tidurious. I am requesting this loan/investment (to type less, I'll call it a loan) myself; it is not associated with my corporation, as I will be dropping this corporation and forming a new corporation (Name Suggestions?). The new corporation will consist of myself with the extra two alts on this account, a friend I know IRL and his two alts on that account, and that is it.

What do I want to do?

I'm glad that you asked: I have currently made all the preparations to set up a POS in hisec for research and copying. I am confident that I have identified a valuable niche where, with the right start-up capital and some time to get started, profit can be made. I have already purchased the POS and all arrays needed. I also have approximately an 8-months supply of fuel blocks, and I can anchor the POS where I want to (standings are good).

Myself, my friend, and our associated alts wish to start work with certain BPOs - initially we will perform a bit of research with said BPOs, and then we will be working with copying them and selling associated sets of researched BPCs to manufacturers. The initial BPO purchase will be approximately 15-16B ISK (depending on who has one available on that given day, it is a number of BPOs, and hence the possible price variation).

With ourselves and our alts, we should be able to keep the POS going at all times, and there would also be the option of expanding to a second POS once the kinks are worked out. That will boost profits more by doubling output, once the alts are finished training to run enough copy/research slots.

Because at least one of the alts has manufacturing skills, remaining CPU/Powergrid from the POS would be used for small manufacturing, such as ammunition made from minerals from L4 missions and/or mining ops between us.

How will I minimize risk?

I will not admit anyone into the corp whom I don't know IRL. Period. Additionally, BPOs would only ever be transported in the un-scannable corp hangar in an orca, and the Scientific Networking skill would be used to keep the BPOs out of the corp pos. If a war is declared, decshield or a similar service would be used to keep the POS out of harm's way. This should be a fairly low-risk operation.

What am I asking for?


I need a minimum total investment of approximately 16 Billion ISK - this is for the purchase of the BPOs themselves. I already have everything else covered.

However, I will accept up to a 20B investment. Why? This will allow me to open up a second POS right away without having to wait for the first few rounds of sales. This will halve the time it will take to make the first sale and produce profits quicker.

What am I offering?

I am offering a long-term investment that I believe, once started, will make a steady income. The items that I am interested in will not be very subjective to market fluctuations and should retain value in the long term. I also believe that the chance that this will fail to turn a profit is very slim.

I am essentially offering "Shares" of this venture. For the security of the BPOs, I will not let anyone buy shares of the corp itself. However, as each sale is made, your percentage of shares will be the amount of profit that you receive.
Because I have no interest in having 500 shareholders if I don't absolutely have to, I am starting shares at 1 Billion ISK each, and I am offering 20 shares at this time.

I have offers so far from two investors who I contacted before this post was made. As I have not asked them if they would like to be named publicly, I invite them to let me know if they would like to be named publicly. So, the list currently stands at:

Unnamed 1 - 1 Billion ISK
Unnamed 2 - 3 Billion ISK

That means that 16 Billion is still available to be invested. I have been in discussion with another player about an investment in the 10 Billion range, but am waiting to hear back.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#2 Posted: 2012.02.09 22:32  |  Edited by: Tidurious
What if this venture doesn't make ISK?

That is another excellent question. I believe that an investment in one or more BPO is a solid investment and that the BPOs can be sold back, if necessary, at a price equal to or greater than the original purchase price, depending on how much research is done on them. That leaves the investors with little risk at a complete loss.

What if I want to get my initial investment back?


If you decide that you no longer want to be a part of this enterprise, than you have two options - you may sell your share to another player of your choosing, OR you may sell it back to me, provided that the operation has made enough that I have the ISK to purchase your share. Note that you are selling your share back at full purchase price when you decide to pull out - as long as you don't let me or another player buy-out your share (which cannot be done without your consent) than you will continue to make a profit off of this venture. This is not a 10% return after 3 months offer, but an actual part of the profit that this venture makes, for as long as you remain invested in it.

WTF? This is your first request, and it's huge! How can I trust you?

The easy answer is that there is no way I can guarantee to you that I won't scam you, that I can think of. Yes, the investment that I am asking for is large, but that is what it will take to make this happen. I own a large number of low-end BPOs and I've done a lot of research and learning about what I'm about to undertake. I am ready for this, but I don't have the ISK.

If you can think of something that would make you happy in terms of trust, tell me. Send me a message, talk to me. You'll realize that I am in this not for lolz or easy ISK but to try and actually feel like I've accomplished something in EVE. If you need more details about the venture and are serious about possibly investing, let me know.

Finally, what is a billion ISK? I see others talk about their 100+ Billion ISK wallets - so what is the harm in taking a risk on a player whom you don't know? Perhaps I will run off with your ISK, but what would that really matter in the end (I won't do that, but I'm just making a point)? However, perhaps you'll get to be one of the first investors in a corp that will really be successful and make a difference in EVE! Isn't that worth a chance?

What are you leaving out right now?


Naturally, I haven't told you what BPOs I'm planning on buying - however, I won't do that at the moment on the forums. If you are serious, then I am willing to go a little more specific. I also haven't told you exactly where my POS will be placed, but I won't be doing that immediately. First off, I don't want my moons taken before I get there with the tower (I do have back-ups in mind though) and I don't want a preemptive wardec if someone just wants to ruin my credibility on MD by delaying this operation.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#3 Posted: 2012.02.09 22:32  |  Edited by: Tidurious
Reserved to answer questions
Gentlemen's Agreement
#4 Posted: 2012.02.10 01:34
Hey, good luck with that.

Reading your submission I find myself full of doubts. Firstly I doubt that you have found a highly profitable bookmark niche that is not being developed and exploited already by others. Secondly I doubt that, even if you had, you could not start small and work your way up ... without all the venture capital funding you seek. Thirdly, I doubt that many people are going to see that spiel as illuminating any sort of great new business opportunity.

Me? I have a variety of small business interests in eve ... and tend to reinvest my profits in my own efforts, and those of close colleagues, rather than the vaguely articulated desires of random others. I have no need to 'invest' (using the word lightly) in this sort of high risk, doubtful return, pie-in-the-sky desires. But hey, that's just me.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder.
Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#5 Posted: 2012.02.10 01:48
I appreciate your input. I never claimed to find a "new" niche, but a PROFITABLE one - there is a difference. I believe that I CAN turn a profit, but I know that EVE is always full of doubt.

Yes, perhaps I could start small and work my way up. But as they also say in EVE, your second billion comes a LOT faster than the first, and so on. If I can get a leg up and move towards something better without having to take every tiny step, then I will.

Best of luck to you as well.
Nulli Secunda
#6 Posted: 2012.02.10 02:09
you make it sound like its 1b, its a total of 20b to an unknown person and heck if i can get myself an alt, get 20b of other people money, hell i would run with it. so thats kinda the issue, 1b, you might have got 10 investor, 20b is something totally different,


you need either a good history
or full collateral loan

I have yet to see a new person come here and get 20b, i say stop it now and save yourself some time.
Has you ever went so far as chose to go even use want to look more like do?
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#7 Posted: 2012.02.10 03:29
Taken from this thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=67663&find=unread

De Guillaume wrote:
i gave away 10b last week. i made 15b since then back. but i think isk. effects different people in different ways.

The best time i have ever had was the first year of playing eve. then it went down hill.


So, you say that you yourself gave away 10B last week and made 15B back since then, and that the game has become boring to you; however, you still don't want to risk 1B (which you should be able to make back in a day, if you choose)? That doesn't make sense to me. However, I have no problem with that. Everyone is free to play the game as they choose.

Yes, this is a minimum 16B and maximum 20B loan/investment; however, with players running around with 100+ Billion in their wallets, I guess I'm looking for someone willing to take a risk with less than 1% of their wallet.. If you don't care to invest, others (hopefully) will. I have 4 Billion pledged at the moment, and I'm looking for more.

Yes, I could go back and forth and back and forth, but I'll never have the loan history of Chribba, nor do I have the interest in dicking around for as long as it would take to form the "loan history" that would be required for a 20B ISK loan to not be trolled and/or flamed to death. In that amount of time, which would take a year or more, I could probably make the required ISK and not need the loan anymore. For those of you who are going to tell me that I should just do that, don't bother. I'm already working there, I'm looking for a boost up.
#8 Posted: 2012.02.10 03:31
While im not personally interested in the investment (due to needing isk of my own) could you not have some sort of safeguard for potential investors by having the bpos locked down in the corp somehow. While this doesnt eliminate the risk of you being a short term 'take all your isk and run' type of scam, it might go some way to helping boost confidence in having some sort of collateral in the bpos themselves should the venture not work out as profitable as you think it will be.

I have not done this sort of research corp type stuff but im sure there will be others amongst MD who could imput more. Also try the Science and industry part of the forum. Perhaps others have done similar things with their corps.

good luck either way- im pretty sure that there is a market for researched bpcs out there. Dont listen to the nay sayers. People have had isk given to them with less of a plan then this.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#9 Posted: 2012.02.10 03:43
I appreciate the constructive comments, papamike :)

That is an interesting idea - however, one of my thoughts on keeping the BPOs safe was to keep them in an NPC station, which cannot be attacked even if the corp is wardecced. The reasoning behind this was to protect the BPOs in case we are wardecced and I or my friend happen to be out for the weekend. The tower isn't too expensive; the BPOs are, and I'd hate to chance it, especially since I've posted on MD publicly that I want to do work with expensive BPOs.

If anyone has ideas about how to secure this better (no, I don't have 20B collateral...) don't hesitate to let me know.
Caldari State
#10 Posted: 2012.02.10 04:02
The way to do this is to get some publicly trusted directors to hold the majority of the shares and have the BPOs locked down by their vote.

That prevents you from running off with the BPOs
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

ḑ̴͈̦̲͜͢͢e̴͡҉̲̼̱̯͔̻͢͡ḇ̧̲̫̰͔͉͝a͏̸̷̡̤͝ͅͅc̢̡̮̫̙̰̠͕͇͟͠l̷̛͖̟̱͓͉͙͓̥͓̪̫̀́ę̸̗̱̘̗̥̬͕͈̫̱̼̻͔̺̠̣̘ͅ
#11 Posted: 2012.02.10 04:09
A quick look through your posting history and one can see various claims made by you.

How you are rich enough to have passive income streams, you do bulk trading, you run lvl 4's if you feel like it.

If this is true then why do you need the money for this. Use some of your 3-4B ISK you always hold lying around.



Also if you have all this cash, have the skills, and the standings you won't mind setting up your character on eve-board then, and having a quick audit to show that you have cash and lots of trades?
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#12 Posted: 2012.02.10 05:24
Nerdy McButtHurt Trald wrote:
A quick look through your posting history and one can see various claims made by you.

How you are rich enough to have passive income streams, you do bulk trading, you run lvl 4's if you feel like it.

If this is true then why do you need the money for this. Use some of your 3-4B ISK you always hold lying around.



Also if you have all this cash, have the skills, and the standings you won't mind setting up your character on eve-board then, and having a quick audit to show that you have cash and lots of trades?


Hmm. where to begin with this one? Posting from an NPC forum alt, obvious troll name, no interest in the proposal, nice.

Anyways:
Passive income =/= LARGE income
Level 4 Missions =/= about 4 years to make enough ISK (sorry, I actually have a life and don't play 8 hours a day like some of the incursion farmers out there)

Yes, I do have a few billion ISK, and I've spent a good portion of that in preparation for this venture. The ISK that I have spent will be used for a similar, less expensive venture, should this not pan out; however, as stated above, I'd like to get a jump start with investors. I have 4B pledged, looking for more so I can get where I want to be sooner.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#13 Posted: 2012.02.10 05:28
RubyPorto wrote:
The way to do this is to get some publicly trusted directors to hold the majority of the shares and have the BPOs locked down by their vote.

That prevents you from running off with the BPOs


The question becomes - who to trust? Should I have the actual investors join the corp? I don't believe they would be willing to leave their own for a small (for someone with LOTS of ISK) investment. Who else would you suggest? I'm not saying that it is a bad idea.

What 'corporation' would manage the POS, etc then? Also, can you lock down BPOs in an NPC hangar? I know you can in a POS, but I've not read much about within an NPC hangar. Your idea is interesting, if you know more, could you please enlighten me?
#14 Posted: 2012.02.10 05:40
So I'm guessing you're going to buy some capital component BPO's and copy them? Not a bad plan, but it does not provide any sort of guarantee you know what you're doing.
Caldari State
#15 Posted: 2012.02.10 06:56
Tidurious wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
The way to do this is to get some publicly trusted directors to hold the majority of the shares and have the BPOs locked down by their vote.

That prevents you from running off with the BPOs


The question becomes - who to trust? Should I have the actual investors join the corp? I don't believe they would be willing to leave their own for a small (for someone with LOTS of ISK) investment. Who else would you suggest? I'm not saying that it is a bad idea.

What 'corporation' would manage the POS, etc then? Also, can you lock down BPOs in an NPC hangar? I know you can in a POS, but I've not read much about within an NPC hangar. Your idea is interesting, if you know more, could you please enlighten me?


If you don't know how to lock BPOs down, you have absolutely no business running an investment of this size.

BTW: The information you ask for is easy to find through google.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

ḑ̴͈̦̲͜͢͢e̴͡҉̲̼̱̯͔̻͢͡ḇ̧̲̫̰͔͉͝a͏̸̷̡̤͝ͅͅc̢̡̮̫̙̰̠͕͇͟͠l̷̛͖̟̱͓͉͙͓̥͓̪̫̀́ę̸̗̱̘̗̥̬͕͈̫̱̼̻͔̺̠̣̘ͅ
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#16 Posted: 2012.02.10 17:44
I know how to lock down BPOs - just had an NPC question. As that was never part of the original 'plan', then pardon me for not being omnipotent. I see you don't have any helpful answers, just sarcasm and trolling?
Superior Eve Engineering
#17 Posted: 2012.02.10 19:04
If you're interested, I have a proposition for you.

20b loan for you @ 4.5%, with a 2b isk deposit from you. I'd waive the first months interest, to give you enough time to research the BPO's. (So long as the loan is lasts 3 months+) If you ever need to expand, I can fund that as well so long as it is collateralized. If you total amount goes above 30b I'd be willing to re-negotiate the interest rate as well.

To secure it all I'd throw in an alt as CEO of the corporation with all the shares, hand out all your characters director so you can run the venture as needed. I would purchase and lock down all the necessary BPO's.

We can talk more details if you are interested, let me know.
Grendell ♥
◄[♥]► 3rd Party Service ◄[♥]►
♥ Securing Peace of mind ♥
Loans available
#18 Posted: 2012.02.11 00:16
I have a question:

Let's assume you receive the full, maximum 20B ISK investment. How much have you and your partners invested on top of that, of your own ISK? In other words, what percentage of the whole enterprise is that 20B ISK worth of shares?

If the 20B ISK in shares is everything, then that means you're paying out all profits to investors (and presumably none to yourselves), as your investors would own the entire enterprise.

Is this correct, or am I missing something in how this is set up to work?
Caldari State
#19 Posted: 2012.02.11 02:50
Tidurious wrote:
I know how to lock down BPOs - just had an NPC question. As that was never part of the original 'plan', then pardon me for not being omnipotent. I see you don't have any helpful answers, just sarcasm and trolling?


1) There are no such things as NPC hangars.

2) If you don't understand how to run corporations (or can't figure out that my first post was actually a helpful answer), you're destined for failure.

3) Research is your Friend

4) Your original plan was "Ohh, look at me, aren't I a pretty little scammer, please give me all your Iskies" (I'm paraphrasing, of course).
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

ḑ̴͈̦̲͜͢͢e̴͡҉̲̼̱̯͔̻͢͡ḇ̧̲̫̰͔͉͝a͏̸̷̡̤͝ͅͅc̢̡̮̫̙̰̠͕͇͟͠l̷̛͖̟̱͓͉͙͓̥͓̪̫̀́ę̸̗̱̘̗̥̬͕͈̫̱̼̻͔̺̠̣̘ͅ
Gallente Federation
#20 Posted: 2012.02.11 10:34
Grendell´s proposal. Otherwise it´s a scam.
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