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New dev blog: The Ease of EVE

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C C P Alliance
#1 Posted: 2012.02.17 09:28  |  Edited by: CCP Guard
We are always looking for ways to improve the new player experience in EVE and a new team has been assembled for that purpose. CCP Legion has written up a blog discussing the future of the new player experience and asking for your help!

Check it out right here.
CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer | @ccp_guard
#2 Posted: 2012.02.17 09:33  |  Edited by: Istan Mahwi
1st
i remember my first character's first few days; mining. nothing needed to be changed i was already hooked being bored to death. still here 3 years later(not mining now a days ofcourseBlink )
indy expansion plz
Minmatar Republic
#3 Posted: 2012.02.17 09:39  |  Edited by: ChromeStriker
ok sounds like a decent plan...

the trick is the tutorials are different from when i did them so i cant comment on them any more Straight and of course the people that have done them, and didnt like it arnt here any more.

maybe allow some of us older toons to redo the tutorials. that way we can give feedback Big smile

Nulla Curas
#4 Posted: 2012.02.17 09:39
sounds like a plan
eve style bounties (done)
dust boarding parties
imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW
Sanctuary Pact
#5 Posted: 2012.02.17 09:51
My name is Kane Hart in RL and well in game haha. I found EVE Online to be one the most amazing games online. It brings so many amazing memories back from other MMORPG's that were so unique but unfortunately never survived. Things like Neocron and Endless Ages and well Anarchy Online did make it but at a really low population when global impacts were not so global.

I think one the main reasons I quit in the past was a lack of money and being young. Yes we were all young once and this is nothing you can do for eve as its not made for simple hormonal minds or maybe just not mine at the time.

I do have some memories of good times being able to go and farm none stop in high sector space without any risk. This was great because I enjoyed playing as a n00bie int most mmorpg's. I rather not raid I rather farm and I don't mind doing it slowly. Unfortunately one the things I found was the recent suicide gankings are actually tearing the enjoyment out of the game for a couple my friends who recently came back and one of them being fresh and new to the game.

I will say though coming back my self I did all the tutorials again and did the tutorial agents all 5 of them and I really enjoyed them and had a blast with it. Actually lost my ship from not reading the instructions and so did my friend who is new to eve and it sure helps you get your act together and a lot faster that's for sure.

I think overall the new player experience is becoming a bit better and getting better for sure overtime. I do think high sector security is getting worse and tbh players are just one step away from having trillions of isk and just deciding that why make money when you can just gank people 24/7 in safe sectors and causing an all out war and pushing new players and high sector players right out of the game.


This last one I'm sure a few people going to slap me around for and maybe threaten to stab me <3. I love the skill system it's unique but I hate it also. I have more time in my life and coming back with only a hand full of SP since 2003-2004 days and etc is already making me check out the market of character sales. But the thing is they would not be mine and I don't want them period I want my own character to be skilled up. I don't want to pay to skill and this will and may cause my overall destruction in quitting again.

If I had one crazy wish in EVE it would be to some how add a new feature into the game to gain EXP actively but not in a way it can be botted nor in a way that only the best players can get it and screw the rest. But also not to high... Something maybe mix in with Agent missions and etc. We have players with 100-150 million SP and hell I will never get there and tbh this is what pushes me away from eve a bit is because all other MMORPG's allow some kind of grinding to level and this whole passive leveling just makes me scream and cry that I can't do anything but wait and wait and wait.


I will admit I did heavy research in eve emulators back in the day and the good news is they will never exists since its just so complex they just will always fail. But the reason I searched was because I did not want to increase the training time I wanted to modify and add some possible way to gain SP by actively doing something in eve.

I really should CCP invest time not considering this but just seeing if players outside EVE would enjoy more of an active leveling system. We don't want free SP to 2mil or 10mil or anything crazy we just want to be able to feel like were doing something for our leveling gains a bit more.


Sorry if I went on and on none stop I love eve a lot and I have recently come back but the SP thing has always been the hardest thing for me.

I hope pouring out my hear helped in a way.

Thanks,
Kane Hart
Naquatech Syndicate
#6 Posted: 2012.02.17 09:55
Good plan let see how it will be realized
Minmatar Republic
#7 Posted: 2012.02.17 10:02
Explain the differences between some of the timers and how they work.

GCC as opposed to aggression timers, concord, gate guns etc..

I'd suggest in all probability the largest section of new players would be lost by them wondering into low-sec space "for a bit of fun" lasting around 30 seconds to a minute and them losing everything it took the past X days/weeks to accumulate.

Recently I was camping EC- gate with CFC and we must've popped at least 3-4 noob ships (not necessarily noobships, but noob ships) which contained all the newb skillbooks that they had still not injected and for some reason had in their ships.... very badly fitted ships :\

Obviously just handing them the books isn't really helping. Perhaps if it is a new player quest system then just inject the skills.

We even put one guy on watchlist for the rest of last week and were going to send him money, but... he hasn't been back :\
Minmatar Republic
#8 Posted: 2012.02.17 10:06
"We invite you to pour your heart (or guts) out and tell us what you think is good or bad with the current new player experience and what you think could be done about the problems."

Fix the forums first! Think I wanna type for hours and have it wiped? think again.
Spreadsheets Online
#9 Posted: 2012.02.17 10:07
Quote:
This Player Experience team will focus on making EVE more accessible to players without dumbing down the game.


Why not dumb down the game? Ex... if you lock overload or dont even have the skill. Dont bother showing the button... Hell why even have the dumbest tiniest button there at all infact?
Otherworld Empire
#10 Posted: 2012.02.17 10:09  |  Edited by: Chribba
This is a hard one, for me, finding out things by myself was what made the game more fun than I feel it is now with a lot of things kinda streamlined for new pilots (which I also understand is needed).

And it isn't making it harder with griefers out to get the new players instantly too lol

But I am excited to see how this pans out.

/c
★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★
Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'
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Rooks and Kings
#11 Posted: 2012.02.17 10:09
A lot of players come from non-english speaking backgrounds.

And while they may be able to get by in the game with less than optimal english knowledge once they know how the game functions, explaining the game to them in terms they best understand (ie, in their own language) could significantly decrease the barrier to entry.

Game localization has helped for German and Russian players. If nothing else, the tutorial should be localized for the other significant languages whose speakers are not known for an easy mastery of the english language.
Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7
Upholders
#12 Posted: 2012.02.17 10:21
Before doing anything I would caution that you don't remove, discourage or negatively effect areas that may or may not make a player leave this game or not enjoy part of it for the following reasoning:

No-one enjoys losing ships

but it is necessary to continue the realistic dynamics this game is well known and enjoyed for.

I also would like to point out that the personality of the community as a whole is comprised mostly of people who have stuck with the game through the wall of a learning curve and an array of harsh lessons.

Due to this, you may wish to consider the effects of adding a certain level of ease to the game, adding the less evolved to the gene pool rarely has a positive effect...
Not that I am inferring that is somewhat related to bringing in people that may or may not; lets say... play terrible, easy (albeit colourful), popular MMOs.

As for suggestions that may improve the new player experience. Perhaps add in a suggestion box for things players would like to do / see / use etc. in game, perhaps even as part of the tutorial. Make this box only available for a month or until the player has completed the tutorial / tutorial mission set.
Welcome to EVE online, here's your rubix cube, go F*** yourself ♥
#13 Posted: 2012.02.17 10:22
When I first started back in 2007 the tutorial was utter rubbish. It was pretty much just the one mission where you kill some rats, mine some ore then go to a station. And I felt back then that the ISK you start with was too little. Although I think new players these days are much better off, getting a couple of frigs and a hauler if you do all of the career tutorials, I still think its something that should be looked into, at the very least to be able to say, yes its fine. I also think that the career tutorials shouldn't be optional, they should be part of learning the game, or at least some of them should be, the advanced combat one is a must, while the exploration one isn't as important. Additionally, better guidance for finding a player corp would help, perhaps re-purpose the recruitment channel in-game for helping new players find a corp, or create a new channel for this purpose, and have strict rules on what is and isn't allowed, IE no scamming. It could perhaps be policed by players who volunteer their time to moderate it, with oversight by devs/gms.
Follow my Adventures in New Eden! http://www.skorpiuschronicles.com/

Wellington NZ Player Gathering https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2810012
Amarr Empire
#14 Posted: 2012.02.17 10:24
The way i see things for new players is that they dont like to wait for ages to be able to fly something or do have some FUN doing something if it takes a very long time to get there. I mean for an old player that probably isn't a problem since some of us play for more then 6months + i have a lot of temper when it comes to waiting for something "GOOD" My option on this it would be to speed a the training for the new player and as you accumulate a lot more experience the process should slow down.. that way you give the player something to do in a relative "short" period of time since the trial for this game is like 14days and you cant experience that much in the game when your skills take "AGES" to get you somewhere. And on the communication part with the corporation is a really laughing problem when most of the EvE corporation are made by clowns just to scam new players. I mean for somebody that has alot of time on there hands to grind the isk and other stuff yeah but when they are constantly picking on new player it just makes the experience a lot worse and you loose interest when you have skills that takes A LOT of time and this constant process of "GRINDING and GRINDING" i think in my opinion is a big NO NO. I mean its great that EvE has a lot of eye candy/realistic characters but the newcomer experience is borked as hell. Just my 2 cents on this matter
The Scourge.
#15 Posted: 2012.02.17 10:27
Good changes

Bad changes.

How will the play out.

New players will get to understand the game better (and as such, let 'dumber' people in)

But they're still going to be daunted by how far they have to go.

And yet, that will fascinate some.

How will this impact the game?

Only time will tell.
#16 Posted: 2012.02.17 10:27
YOU USED THE WRONG LEARNING CURVE
The Gaming MoD - retro to modern, console to MMO, I blog about it if it's a game and I'm interested in it. Yes, I play games other than Eve and I don't care if you think I'm wrong.
Pandemic Legion
#17 Posted: 2012.02.17 10:28
There needs to be an MOTD in each of the starting corporations, which states popular questions as Rookie Help tends to be flooded with questions of the same nature. For example, where to find the tutorial agents (for that corporation), possibly the location of the Sisters of EVE Epic Arc. You can also post a link to the New Player Q & A forum which, in my opinion will help guide their way through the game.

Another helpful thing for new players would be to forewarn them on Can Baiters and Griefers and tell them to submit a petition if they are griefed in a newbie system (this can be placed in the MOTD), this may sound over the top, however there are sad individuals who think that destroying a new players experience is ~elitepvp~, although it is against the EULA.

CCP should get some of the people who wrote guides for TEST and Goons for their newbros (♥ newbros), they are very well written and are, in my opinion more helpful (even if they are walls of texts) compared to the CCP guides (no offence) which tend to be helpful, but only dip their toes in the water. As TEST and Goons rely solely on their new membership that they are detailed on basic things such as training and ship fittings.
Shadoo > Always remember to fit Cynosural Field Generator I, have 450 Liquid Ozone in your cargo and convo a friendly Pandemic Legion member if you have a capital or super capital ship tackled.
Amarr Empire
#18 Posted: 2012.02.17 10:29
Darth Skorpius wrote:
When I first started back in 2007 the tutorial was utter rubbish. It was pretty much just the one mission where you kill some rats, mine some ore then go to a station. And I felt back then that the ISK you start with was too little. Although I think new players these days are much better off, getting a couple of frigs and a hauler if you do all of the career tutorials, I still think its something that should be looked into, at the very least to be able to say, yes its fine. I also think that the career tutorials shouldn't be optional, they should be part of learning the game, or at least some of them should be, the advanced combat one is a must, while the exploration one isn't as important. Additionally, better guidance for finding a player corp would help, perhaps re-purpose the recruitment channel in-game for helping new players find a corp, or create a new channel for this purpose, and have strict rules on what is and isn't allowed, IE no scamming. It could perhaps be policed by players who volunteer their time to moderate it, with oversight by devs/gms.



Or you can have a option when you first start the game or after a few days to have suggestion like "Would you like to join a learning corp?" and give some suggestion of well trusted corps like E-UNI that really help players rather then scamming them and leaving a really bad impression about the game overall.
#19 Posted: 2012.02.17 10:33
ChromeStriker wrote:

maybe allow some of us older toons to redo the tutorials. that way we can give feedback Big smile


If you have no free character slots, you can always sign up for a trial and run through the tutorial :)

Kane Hart wrote:

I hope pouring out my hear helped in a way.


I did ask you to pour your hearts out...

Sade Onyx wrote:

Fix the forums first! Think I wanna type for hours and have it wiped? think again.


... and guts :)

Jason Edwards wrote:
Quote:
This Player Experience team will focus on making EVE more accessible to players without dumbing down the game.


Why not dumb down the game? Ex... if you lock overload or dont even have the skill. Dont bother showing the button... Hell why even have the dumbest tiniest button there at all infact?


By dumb down I meant more things like 'No PvP in Empire' or 'Compressing all Engineering skills to single megaskill of engineering'. Polishing and removing useless extra steps is something a lot of teams are looking at.
@CCP_Legion | Associate Producer 
Important Internet Spaceship League
#20 Posted: 2012.02.17 10:34
I'm going to lose interest if CCP Tallest doesn't start interacting with the players giving him feed back on balance issues...

Apart from that I like this. In my opinion I think the new guys are blown away with the immense scale of Eve, however in empire the griefers and other experienced players have it way too safe with super EHP T3 ships, short timers to dock/jump after agression and being able to utilize on neutral boosting... I believe it's important for CCP to focus way more on the frigates, crusiers and tier 1 battlecruisers making them all more usefull. The players running around with 1b isk T3 ships have it way too easy in hi-sec and sometimes lowsec.

Best of luck with the program
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