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If you build it, will the Goons come

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#1 Posted: 2012.02.20 06:38
Just talking hypothetical, because I certainly can't imagine anyone being able to herd the high sec cats (it pains me to say that).

Some Goon laughingly suggested a high sec player police force to deal with the ones who enjoy the asshattery of nailing high sec miners.
So if someone was willing to create a coalition to interdict the gankers, would it be feasible?

Are the high sec gankers enjoying Hulkageddon and Caldari Ice mining centralized in a relatively small amount of corps/alliances, or are they scattered across a legion of corps?

For this thought exercise, imagine a high sec player corp or alliance that dec's the main group of gankers .
Now imagine that high sec player police force protects the choke points into a select few Caldari ice fields.

Would the gankers arrive en masse for a opportunity to fight "carebear" combat boats?
Are the Goons too busy in their dance with Raiden to come to high sec?
Are the gankers spread out across too many corps to make this possible, assuming they are in player corps at all?

Like I said, it is virtually impossible to get the high sec folks to organize to this degree, and I believe the sociopaths that enjoy trashing miners are scattered across too many corps to make it possible to dec many.

But I am still curious of the theory of it.
#2 Posted: 2012.02.20 06:46
It would be much easier if CCP modify game mechanics:
1. Aggression causes a drop in standing to sov holding faction in Empire as it does to currently does to Concord.
2. Players who agress in Empire are flagged for 24 hours to the sov holding factions militia
3. Being an empire policeman is suddenly a fun occupation.
Nulli Secunda
#3 Posted: 2012.02.20 06:51
Jita Alt666 wrote:
It would be much easier if CCP modify game mechanics:
1. Aggression causes a drop in standing to sov holding faction in Empire as it does to currently does to Concord.
2. Players who agress in Empire are flagged for 24 hours to the sov holding factions militia
3. Being an empire policeman is suddenly a fun occupation.



You do know you can freely engage and kill people below a certain sec status already right?
We're winning the war if it says so on CAOD!  
Spaceship Samurai
#4 Posted: 2012.02.20 06:51
Give me a Rokh that can instawarp and I'll do it for a Year
Be polite.
Be efficient.
Have a plan to troll everyone you meet
- KuroVolt
#5 Posted: 2012.02.20 06:54
Jita Alt666 wrote:
It would be much easier if CCP modify game mechanics:
1. Aggression causes a drop in standing to sov holding faction in Empire as it does to currently does to Concord.
2. Players who agress in Empire are flagged for 24 hours to the sov holding factions militia
3. Being an empire policeman is suddenly a fun occupation.



It may be easier for CCP to change the mechanics than to create a high sec coalition, but quite frankly, I doubt you will ever see either.
#6 Posted: 2012.02.20 06:55  |  Edited by: Jita Alt666
Aiwha wrote:
Jita Alt666 wrote:
It would be much easier if CCP modify game mechanics:
1. Aggression causes a drop in standing to sov holding faction in Empire as it does to currently does to Concord.
2. Players who agress in Empire are flagged for 24 hours to the sov holding factions militia
3. Being an empire policeman is suddenly a fun occupation.



You do know you can freely engage and kill people below a certain sec status already right?


Yes I do know that. I also I know it is pretty easy to cruise around as a -10 with little fear of any fleets of substance coming after you.

Edit: the faction option would mean that people who enter empire with a sec status of 5.0 expecting to run a bunch of ganks before things got tight - could be hunted after their first.
Nulli Secunda
#7 Posted: 2012.02.20 07:05
Jita Alt666 wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
Jita Alt666 wrote:
It would be much easier if CCP modify game mechanics:
1. Aggression causes a drop in standing to sov holding faction in Empire as it does to currently does to Concord.
2. Players who agress in Empire are flagged for 24 hours to the sov holding factions militia
3. Being an empire policeman is suddenly a fun occupation.



You do know you can freely engage and kill people below a certain sec status already right?


Yes I do know that. I also I know it is pretty easy to cruise around as a -10 with little fear of any fleets of substance coming after you.



That's because all the sociopaths already abandoned highsec for the glories of lowsec and null.


All the boring people are left in highsec.


You're boring Jita.
We're winning the war if it says so on CAOD!  
#8 Posted: 2012.02.20 07:21
Jita Alt666 wrote:
It would be much easier if CCP modify game mechanics:
1. Aggression causes a drop in standing to sov holding faction in Empire as it does to currently does to Concord.
2. Players who agress in Empire are flagged for 24 hours to the sov holding factions militia
3. Being an empire policeman is suddenly a fun occupation.

I like this to some degree. More risk to people who commit crimes in Empire but not from NPC's. Player opposition is always a god thing.
#9 Posted: 2012.02.20 07:25
Why you are even allowed to enter Empire space with a ridiculous sec score is beyond me.

Forget NPC's and turrets, the gate itself shouldn't let you pass through.
I don't always use hax. But when I do, it's because I'm an NPC.. http://i.imgur.com/PUZou.jpg
#10 Posted: 2012.02.20 07:27
Aiwha wrote:
Jita Alt666 wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
Jita Alt666 wrote:
It would be much easier if CCP modify game mechanics:
1. Aggression causes a drop in standing to sov holding faction in Empire as it does to currently does to Concord.
2. Players who agress in Empire are flagged for 24 hours to the sov holding factions militia
3. Being an empire policeman is suddenly a fun occupation.



You do know you can freely engage and kill people below a certain sec status already right?


Yes I do know that. I also I know it is pretty easy to cruise around as a -10 with little fear of any fleets of substance coming after you.



That's because all the sociopaths already abandoned highsec for the glories of lowsec and null.


All the boring people are left in highsec.


You're boring Jita.



That is true. How can I have a rational discussion of any effect with some one so profound. Not only am I in high sec I have not logged in for over 3 months - well this alt has not logged in for over 3 months.
#11 Posted: 2012.02.20 07:36
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Jita Alt666 wrote:
It would be much easier if CCP modify game mechanics:
1. Aggression causes a drop in standing to sov holding faction in Empire as it does to currently does to Concord.
2. Players who agress in Empire are flagged for 24 hours to the sov holding factions militia
3. Being an empire policeman is suddenly a fun occupation.

I like this to some degree. More risk to people who commit crimes in Empire but not from NPC's. Player opposition is always a god thing.


As an addition they could make a mechanic where militia folk could locate people who had just "committed crimes against integrity of the faction's sov". Criminal Locator so to speak.
Somethin Awfull Forums
#12 Posted: 2012.02.20 09:19
It won't work simply because high sec mining is not lucrative enough to do as a fleet. Null sec mining isn't even lucrative enough to do as a fleet for that matter. No system in EVE besides mission hubs and tech moon systems have PvE/ mining resources to support more than 4 to 6 players. It's part of the EVE trap. Do the things you shouldn't do and someone will make it thier duty to punish you.

EVE needs to be 'fixed' by CCP. Players can't police the game.
#13 Posted: 2012.02.20 13:13  |  Edited by: Professor Alphane
See your problem here is attitude to sec status.

The only feasible way under current game mechanics to attack any random desired target is to gank them, this can have negative effects on charecters who wish to continue operations in high sec. Obviously a concern of little consideration to a null seccer .

I don't really understand aggro/kill right mechnics (why should I I'm a carebear) but even if you could get rights to pop them, it wouldn't mean squat. This is a suicide gank right, the tactic is to die, what odds if concord or some carebear kills them, they get there lulz and hopefully pop a mack or a cocky carebear.

My theory on how to deal with the part of the sandbox that appears to have become a cesspit is to just ignored it, when they crawl into high sec and poop on someones sandcastle, well unfortunatly it falls on the builder to pay the clean up costs, such is life , this is how we 'insure' ourelves, as a collective high sec is easly rich enough to afford this. Other than a few care bear tears and a couple of points on 1 in a million market products nothing happens, it's all hype, ignore it.

TLDR

It's all hype, best to ignore it , carry on caring bears Lol

YOU MUST THINK FIRST....

"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion

The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar
Gallente Federation
#14 Posted: 2012.02.20 13:25
Well, CCP have been on about revamping the bounty system for a while now, to coincide with smuggling changes and stuff.

Hopefully, fingers crossed, it will be this year that something gets implemented.
Cult of War
#15 Posted: 2012.02.20 13:56
I doubt it, given human nature policemen will degenerate to thugs within a year, turning Empire Space into Stalin's USSR.

For now, I think the best solution to any problem in the game, (although I wouldn't call suicide ganking a problem as it's easily avoided) is to simply fix broken features rather than adding more broken ones. If having a bounty on your head would actually mean people are coming for you then perhaps things would get interesting.
Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
#16 Posted: 2012.02.20 13:58
Professor Alphane wrote:
See your problem here is attitude to sec status.

The only feasible way under current game mechanics to attack any random desired target is to gank them, this can have negative effects on charecters who wish to continue operations in high sec. Obviously a concern of little consideration to a null seccer .

I don't really understand aggro/kill right mechnics (why should I I'm a carebear) but even if you could get rights to pop them, it wouldn't mean squat. This is a suicide gank right, the tactic is to die, what odds if concord or some carebear kills them, they get there lulz and hopefully pop a mack or a cocky carebear.

My theory on how to deal with the part of the sandbox that appears to have become a cesspit is to just ignored it, when they crawl into high sec and poop on someones sandcastle, well unfortunatly it falls on the builder to pay the clean up costs, such is life , this is how we 'insure' ourelves, as a collective high sec is easly rich enough to afford this. Other than a few care bear tears and a couple of points on 1 in a million market products nothing happens, it's all hype, ignore it.

TLDR

It's all hype, best to ignore it , carry on caring bears Lol


Yes your own "couple of points" on the market is best demonstrated as hype by looking at mining ship prices, orcas and freighters and see how recent prices have changed accordingly due to the potential advent of Hulkageddon. It is having a significant impact on capabilities. If you think swings like this and losses dont effect the economy and should be simply ignored well more the idiot. As as much as industrialists will be capatalising on this the increases in demand will shift production in this area reducing it to others.

If the undervalued industrialist continues to be used as a pinata or neglected then the encouragement for them to do other things will simply increase demand due to their own non-industrial activities and obviously reduce supply of various goods.

Crucible modifications favoured the ganker, with cheaper alpha stike BCs rather than BS and improvements to dessies, making the loss ratio's more in favour for the ganker. So not only is the "hit" on the industrialist more as it takes effectively less assests to destory the same now, the equaivalant purchase on the market has reduced with cheaper or more effective ganking ships, lowering potential incomes as a result from that source. So it is a double blow to the industrialist.

Large losses through hauling take significantly more time to recover from from the industrialist base then the opportunist ganker, who profits from the exercise. But this also takes supply from the market with destroyed assests. Thus any increases in PvP will make supply issues potential worse whilst increasing demand.

Then there is the scope in current development from CSM details to make null sec T2 production more favourable, and emphaises use in null, thus making an inequality in what should be a free market. Thus making less profit opportunities for industrialists elsewhere with T2. And who is calling for these, the very same people who have a war stratergy on the high sec industry base with their "Farms and fields" initiative and a view to making themselves completley independant from the High sec market.

Or the call in the recent CSM minutes for WH space to have the opportunites for cap ships to enter to aifd in the removal of production bases therein. Likley having an impact to prodution for T3 and other regular production as a result.

Or the interdictions on ice effecting POS use.

PI tax changes has also reduced profit opportunites in High sec for industrialists, whilst potentially affording another income in low and null with custom office control. This makes any PI industry less competative aswell.

If you think all of these issues don't have an effect on supply and pricing well you are in denial.

But please continue with the propoganda that other areas of the game are most effecting the economy, watch prices continue to slowly get out of control due to neglect and a continual enthused position to gank soft industrial targets.

Industrialists willing to stick it out will adapt to the most profiteering opportunites as a result, but then you can't really blame them for price hiking either if its to feed demand or replace losses either. But it will effect supply and prices, either as a result of refocussing on what is made and sold or loss of activity due to ganking activities or if people refocus on other things otehr than industry.

Best thing you can do is wake up to the war stratergy being fed to you from certain null sec alliances and realise that there is a good reason why they want you to "**** in your own back yard". Also if you think Goons don't mine well your even more niave and lost to the hype.

So ignore it if you like, but don't feed the crap hype to us and expect us to swallow it.
#17 Posted: 2012.02.20 15:17
Folks, I think it was a bad idea on starting this thread.

It more of an idle thought on the theory of stopping the high sec gankers within the given game mechanics, not to start yet another thread on how to change the mechanics.

I fully agree the mechanics need to be changed, but that is not going to happen. They will only change more in favour of the null sec alliances in upcoming releases, given the complete domination of the CSM by the previously mentioned null sec alliances.

So the simple question is, can the goons and their mouth-breathing accomplices be stopped using the existing game mechanics, or are they spread out amongst too many corporations and alliances?
Brave Collective
#18 Posted: 2012.02.20 15:29
Stig O'Tracy wrote:
Just talking hypothetical, because I certainly can't imagine anyone being able to herd the high sec cats (it pains me to say that).

Some Goon laughingly suggested a high sec player police force to deal with the ones who enjoy the asshattery of nailing high sec miners.
So if someone was willing to create a coalition to interdict the gankers, would it be feasible?

Are the high sec gankers enjoying Hulkageddon and Caldari Ice mining centralized in a relatively small amount of corps/alliances, or are they scattered across a legion of corps?

For this thought exercise, imagine a high sec player corp or alliance that dec's the main group of gankers .
Now imagine that high sec player police force protects the choke points into a select few Caldari ice fields.

Would the gankers arrive en masse for a opportunity to fight "carebear" combat boats?
Are the Goons too busy in their dance with Raiden to come to high sec?
Are the gankers spread out across too many corps to make this possible, assuming they are in player corps at all?

Like I said, it is virtually impossible to get the high sec folks to organize to this degree, and I believe the sociopaths that enjoy trashing miners are scattered across too many corps to make it possible to dec many.

But I am still curious of the theory of it.


Don't the HS gankers usually sit in NPC corps?
Because if they don't now, if this got actually happened, that's what they'd do thus avoiding the war decs.
#19 Posted: 2012.02.20 15:33
Professor Alphane wrote:
The only feasible way under current game mechanics to attack any random desired target is to gank them, this can have negative effects on charecters who wish to continue operations in high sec. Obviously a concern of little consideration to a null seccer.
Actually, the effect is negligible on anyone who wishes to operate in highsec since sec status is so easy to build up again. No, the problem is that people think that any movement in the negative direction — however temporary — will eat their soul… or something to that effect. They can't bear the thought of having a “minus” entry in their sec status history, even though it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever, either in the short or the long run.

Quote:
I don't really understand aggro/kill right mechnics (why should I I'm a carebear)
You should understand it because you're a carebear. Understanding them is your first step towards properly managing your risks and creating your own security.

Grumpy Owly wrote:
If you think swings like this and losses dont effect the economy and should be simply ignored well more the idiot. As as much as industrialists will be capatalising on this the increases in demand will shift production in this area reducing it to others.
Of course the effect the economy. The thing is, though, that they don't effect the economy negatively — in fact, they do the exact opposite by activating the massive overproduction capacity in the game and making the ISK flow left right and centre. It's good for everyone.

Industrialists in particular feel these positive effects, since it increases their potential income.

Quote:
Crucible modifications favoured the ganker, with cheaper alpha stike BCs rather than BS and improvements to dessies, making the loss ratio's more in favour for the ganker.
Actually, with the loss of insurance, the cost comes out about the same (if not a bit higher) than before, since you now have to pay more than 20% for the hull and since the new “cheaper alpha BCs” are actually a fair bit more expensive, almost approaching BS prices.

Quote:
Large losses through hauling take significantly more time to recover from from the industrialist base then the opportunist ganker, who profits from the exercise.
Eh, no. Large loss = large loss, and the industrialist already has the means to make up for it, whereas the opportunist ganker does not. Your problem here is that you're comparing a large loss with a small loss and then deliver the unsurprising news that the larger loss takes longer to recover from. Oh, and removing supply from the market is a good thing, especially for industrialists, since it keeps the economy rolling.
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”

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Goonswarm Federation
#20 Posted: 2012.02.20 15:49
"PvP is nonconsensual? what is this nonsense, this is eve online"
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