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Escort Carriers

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Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-05-13 16:34:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Loius Woo
MOST RECENT EDIT: 23 AUG 2012, Most recent page is page 13

After about 9 pages of discussion in this thread:
Light Carriers

And some older ideas but still good here

I have put together a more descriptive and detailed proposal. I have also changed the name from light carriers to Escort Carriers as that is a more apt description of their purpose.


Escort Carriers

There is a large gap in size, complexity, skill requirements, and combat power between battleships and capital ships. This large gap makes it difficult to have a steady progression from BS combat to capital combat and the fights tend to be either a BS fight or a capital fight. Part of this is due to the immobility of capital ships which cannot roam with the support fleet and must commit to combat by jumping. These ships also have an order of magnitude larger tank than BS class vessels.

To fill this gap, I propose the introduction of the Escort Carrier

Concept Art Credit: Kero40 Eve create a ship contest, 2010.
**note** The name of the Minmatar Escort Carrier had to be changed due to CCP already using Tornado between 2010 and now :)
Also, the scales shown in the concept art are a bit small for me. I would propose that these ships are more like 1200-1500m long axis.

The escort carrier’s role would be to provide combat support to roaming BS fleet forces. They would have a tank that is roughly 1.5 times that of the average battleship, large drone bays, the ability to fit large rep modules, and can travel via jump gates with BS fleets.

Each Escort Carrier would have a large drone bay. They would receive a bonus to drone control range (+100%) and a bonus to drones per level (+1 per level for a max of 10). They would also receive a 7.5% per level to drone effectiveness. Drone effectiveness is defined as damage for combat drones, repair amount for logistics drones, Jam strength for ECM drones, SIg Radius boost for TP drones, web amount for Web drones...you see where this is headed? All the drones get 7.5% more per level at what they do.

Cost would be about 400,000,000isk each.

Intended use is as a utility ship without the ability to allow fittings changes, and without the ability to provide large logistics. The boost to drone effectiveness means that ANY drone is (at max level) 37.5% more effective than drones from some other un bonuses platform.


Required Skills:
Racial BS 4
Spaceship Command 5
Advanced Spaceship Command 4
Drone Interfacing 4
Drones 5
Racial Escort Carrier 1

Tech 2 versions:
Assault Carriers:
Tech two ships with a designed role of dealing damage via drones. Skills would be Racial Escourt Carrier 5, Drone Interfacing 5, Drone Navigation 5, Assault Carrier 1.
ADD 99% reduction in CPU need of warfare link modules.
ADD T2 resists.
ADD Racial Resist bonus 5% per level
Remove drone effectiveness bonus, replace with 15% per level bonus to drone damage.
ADD 5% per level to drone control range and drone speed
Add 1 low slot to all to allow drone damage mod.

Intended use is as a gank ship with high DPS and pretty good damage. Having all of your gank in drones means that your weapons can be destroyed however and that keeps these ships from being overpowered. The extra resists would give them a really good buffer tank. And with the 15% boost to damage per level, a max level pilot with all ten drones out would be doing as much damage as 17.5 drones from other platforms. In addition, the range bonus makes them able to use their drones from very very far away. The warfare link module allows this ship to plus up a gang in the same way a T1 battlecruiser can, but note that it cannot use more than one at a time, so it is NOT a command ship. Other high slots would be for combat utility most likely like smart bombs or nuets.

Support Carriers:
Tech two ship with a designed role of support and logistics for sub capital and capital fleets. Skills should be Racial Escort Carrier 5, Drone interfacing 5, Repair Drone Operation 5, Logistics 4, Support Carrier 1.
Bonus of 80% per level to large remote repair range. (for a max of about 24KM range)
Bonus of 50% per level to large remote repair amount.
Nerf capacitor so that the ONLY way to run the reppers for long duration is with capacitor chain (which these ships are not buffed for).
ADD T2 resists
ADD Ship maintenance bay of 250,000m3
ADD bonus, 25% per level to non-combat drone effectiveness.
ADD bonus, 10% per level to logistics drone amount.

Intended use is as a support/logistics carrier for BS gangs by providing ship fitting capabilities to re-ship in mid roam and also provides some logistics capabilities or other capabilities for any drones that are not "Combat Drones" this includes Combat Utility Drones, Logistics Drones, EWAR drones, etc. The 25% per level means that non combat drones are as effective as a double number of un-bonused drones,10 logistics drones become as effective as 40 logistics drones from a different platform making these ships good at logistics for sub battleship gangs, and decent for battleships as well. If I have done the math right, the Logistics cruiser would still be better suited and more sustainable capacitor wise.
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-05-13 16:34:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Loius Woo
Minmatar Escort Carrier: Squall
Minmatar Escort Carrier skill Bonus
+1 Drone per level
+7.5% to drone effectiveness per level

Ship bonus
100% bonus to drone control range

Structure HP: 11800
Armor HP: 11800
Armor Resists
EM: 60%
Exp: 10%
Kin: 25%
Thrm: 35%
Shield HP: 11700
Shield recharge: 3932 sec
Shield Resists
EM: 0%
Exp: 50%
Kin: 40%
Thrm: 20%
Max Velocity: 112m/s
Inertial modifier: .116
Align time:38.69
Mass: 207,200,000
Volume: 603900
Cargo: 735m3
Power Grid: 11250
Slots
Low: 6
Mid: 5
High: 4
CPU: 650Tf
Max Capacitor: 9000GJ
Cap Recharge: 625sec
Max targeting Range: 87.5
Max targets: 6
Sensor Strength: 38
Scan Resolution: 60mm
Signature Radius: 560
Drone Bay: 650m3
Drone BW: 250
Corp Hanger: 2500m3
Ship Maintenance Bay: none
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-05-13 16:34:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Loius Woo
Amarr Escort Carrier: Cataclysm
Amarr Escort Carrier skill Bonus
+1 Drone per level
+7.5% to drone effectiveness per level

Ship bonus
100% bonus to drone control range

Structure HP: 14550
Armor HP: 14600
Armor Resists
EM: 50%
Exp: 20%
Kin: 25%
Thrm: 35%
Shield HP: 9450
Shield recharge: 3375 sec
Shield Resists
EM: 0%
Exp: 50%
Kin: 40%
Thrm: 20%
Max Velocity: 82m/s
Inertial modifier: .14
Align time: 46.52sec
Mass: 206,400,000
Volume: 722,250
Cargo: 675m3
Power Grid: 15500
Slots
Low: 7
Mid: 4
High: 4
CPU: 590Tf
Max Capacitor: 11475GJ
Cap Recharge: 795sec
Max targeting Range: 92
Max targets: 6
Sensor Strength: 42
Scan Resolution: 55mm
Signature Radius: 710m
Drone Bay: 650m3
Drone BW: 250
Corp Hanger: 2500m3
Ship Maintenance Bay: none
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-05-13 16:34:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Loius Woo
Caldari Escort Carrier: Sparrow
Caldari Escort Carrier skill Bonus
+1 Drone per level
+7.5% to drone effectiveness per level

Ship bonus
100% bonus to drone control range

Structure HP: 13350
Armor HP: 10700
Armor Resists
EM: 50%
Exp: 10%
Kin: 25%
Thrm: 45%
Shield HP: 13350
Shield recharge: 4045 sec
Shield Resists
EM: 0%
Exp: 50%
Kin: 40%
Thrm: 20%
Max Velocity: 80m/s
Inertial modifier: .136
Align time: 46.11sec
Mass: 210,600,000
Volume: 620,550
Cargo: 750m3
Power Grid: 12500
Slots
Low: 4
Mid: 7
High: 4
CPU: 805Tf
Max Capacitor: 10800GJ
Cap Recharge: 748sec
Max targeting Range: 110
Max targets: 6
Sensor Strength: 44
Scan Resolution: 45mm
Signature Radius: 740m
Drone Bay: 650m3
Drone BW: 250
Corp Hanger: 2500m3
Ship Maintenance Bay: none
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-05-13 16:35:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Loius Woo
Galente Escort Carrier: Hades
Galente Escort Carrier skill Bonus
+1 Drone per level
+7.5% to drone effectiveness per level

Ship bonus
100% bonus to drone control range

Structure HP: 15850
Armor HP: 13300
Armor Resists
EM: 50%
Exp: 10%
Kin: 35%
Thrm: 35%
Shield HP: 10750
Shield recharge: 3583 sec
Shield Resists
EM: 0%
Exp: 50%
Kin: 40%
Thrm: 20%
Max Velocity: 95m/s
Inertial modifier: .124
Align time: 40sec
Mass: 200,400,000
Volume: 679,500
Cargo: 800m3
Power Grid: 15500
Slots
Low: 6
Mid: 5
High: 4
CPU: 705Tf
Max Capacitor: 12960GJ
Cap Recharge: 898sec
Max targeting Range: 100
Max targets: 6
Sensor Strength: 43
Scan Resolution: 50mm
Signature Radius: 725m
Drone Bay: 650m3
Drone BW: 250
Corp Hanger: 2500m3
Ship Maintenance Bay: none
#6 - 2012-05-13 20:48:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Marwolaeth Arglwydd
Few things I would change is not having a Ship Maintance Bay; if you want that, use a Carrier or Mom. And possible not allowing them to use Capital reppers, rather give a good boost to Large ones instead. Again if you want Capital Reppers fly a Carrier.

Also no Triage as this would be a small carrier. Not some large monster of a ship.
Insidious Empire
#7 - 2012-05-13 22:37:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Liliana Rahl
I thought we talked about this.

Fighters provide nothing useful and really shouldn't be included.

And I agree with the other guy, no capital reps. Large reps + a bonus to rep amount will have to suffice. This will make them unique from logis, as logis get a range bonus, not amount.

I'm okay with the ship bay as it allows refitting/storage/swapping of small ships (perfect for roaming around).
Shattered Foundations
#8 - 2012-05-13 23:05:05 UTC  |  Edited by: El Geo
Liliana Rahl wrote:
I thought we talked about this.

Fighters provide nothing useful and really shouldn't be included.

And I agree with the other guy, no capital reps. Large reps + a bonus to rep amount will have to suffice. This will make them unique from logis, as logis get a range bonus, not amount.

I'm okay with the ship bay as it allows refitting/storage/swapping of small ships (perfect for roaming around).


seriously? im just picturing how much use a support ship would be with 9km rep range, i mean imagine an orca jumping through a constellation gate and having to travel to rep someone, not going to happen

carrier = support = logistics, maint and corp hangers
personally, i'd scrap the extra drone per level - make them more mobile less powerful versions of current carriers if you want (someone termed them 'pocket' carriers) but having a (support) ship that can travel with a bs gang offering support through travelling of gates and cant rep the 40km to the other side? thats just hilarious

also, fighter DO provide a use especially for wormholes, where one static can be sat on and fighters sent to assist others in the system (similar could apply to entry systems if the ship was highsec capable, although, agression stimers :P )
Insidious Empire
#9 - 2012-05-13 23:39:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Liliana Rahl
Read the other thread. In regards to fighters, my objection was to exactly that; sending them to assist. This should be limited to normal carriers.

As for reps, ever heard of RR bs doctrines? You wouldn't want to be far from the ship anyway. Simply watchlist it and orbit when in combat.
#10 - 2012-05-14 00:12:08 UTC
As Dominix / Rattle pilot owner who stuck on these two ships for a 2rd year in a row - I support this thousand times.

Create these ships CCP. Please.
Shattered Foundations
#11 - 2012-05-14 01:03:15 UTC
Liliana Rahl wrote:
Read the other thread. In regards to fighters, my objection was to exactly that; sending them to assist. This should be limited to normal carriers.

As for reps, ever heard of RR bs doctrines? You wouldn't want to be far from the ship anyway. Simply watchlist it and orbit when in combat.


guess you dont travel much, at least not through constellation gates in 0.0, you know the ones you can jump into and be surrounded by a blob and 40 ot 50km away from your nearest gang member?
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-05-14 01:20:14 UTC
Marwolaeth Arglwydd wrote:

Also no Triage as this would be a small carrier. Not some large monster of a ship.


They DO NOT have triage.
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-05-14 01:25:23 UTC
El Geo wrote:
seriously? im just picturing how much use a support ship would be with 9km rep range, i mean imagine an orca jumping through a constellation gate and having to travel to rep someone, not going to happen


Capital logistics modules have a 15KM range not 9.

I would be willing to entertain a small boost to range, perhaps 15% per level of escort carrier so that at level 5 the range would be +75% for a total of 26.25KM. But the long range boost is something that Logis do well. If your not going to keep your ships close to this carrier, then you should get a logi cruiser...thier niche is mobility.

The capital rappers are what this has OVER a logistics cruiser. They rep for more per cycle, at a shorter range.

They aren't meant to be for fast mobile gangs, just more mobile than a capital jump drive.
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-05-14 01:28:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Loius Woo
Fighters are what make these Escort Carriers and not Drone Battleships. They have less than half as many as Carriers, they don't have jump drives, they have 25% the corp hanger/ship maintenance bay, no ability to fit command modules, and don't get any of the other carrier bonuses. So I don't think these are stealing anything from carriers.
Insidious Empire
#15 - 2012-05-14 01:41:05 UTC
Why do you want them to have fighters so badly?

Have you ever used fighters?
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-05-14 01:44:15 UTC
Liliana Rahl wrote:
Why do you want them to have fighters so badly?

Have you ever used fighters?


I have said why I want them included several times. The only argument I have heard against them were A: They would be OP in high sec, I fixed that by saying they are still restricted to low/null sec space and B: that they are for carriers....and these things ARE carriers, escort carriers.

Perhaps you can explain why an escort carrier with 5 fighters or 10 drones is a bad idea.
#17 - 2012-05-14 11:39:26 UTC
Man that concept art looks sweet.
Nice looking ships indeed, Not sure if CCP would consider...
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-05-14 11:58:00 UTC
I love this but no fighters... :D and no, ccp wont consider this...
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-05-14 16:15:36 UTC
Vaako Horizon wrote:
I love this but no fighters... :D and no, ccp wont consider this...


Why no fighters? I have yet to hear a really compelling argument against them so long as they cannot be used in high sec.
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-05-14 17:25:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaako Horizon
Loius Woo wrote:
Vaako Horizon wrote:
I love this but no fighters... :D and no, ccp wont consider this...


Why no fighters? I have yet to hear a really compelling argument against them so long as they cannot be used in high sec.


This is supposed to be something that isnt out there, we got 2 tiers of carriers that can already use em ( and was designed for them ).
While drones are ofc designed for every ship ( or so it feels like ) I'd like to see an actual drone carrier ( and not another hybrid carrier )
When I say hybrid I am ofc aiming for the rattle/dom etc etc and not the carriers
I will ofc not complain if they were allowed access to fighters... :D I just dont think its a good idea
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