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C5-6 Site Running: Like a Baws

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#1 - 2012-08-17 02:15:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
So here's a followup to my carrier + BS PVE guide which can be found here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1808468#post1808468

The 'real deal' if you will.

Again, people ask about capital escalations all the time.
I have been running escalations in this manner for some time, even 'solo' at times, so here's how it is done.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Jack’s Guide to Running Sleeper Sites like a Baws

The aim of this guide is to provide a complete rundown of how to properly capital escalate class 5 and 6
sleeper sites.
It assumes basic knowledge of the fact that WH sites capital escalate and how they escalate, along with a working knowledge of the ships involved and wormhole anomalies.
If you do not have said knowledge, you are not ready for this.


What you will need:
1 Triage capable Archon.
2 Moros/Revelation dreadnaughts. (No, you can't bring your Phoenix.)
1 Carrier, any race.
1 Loki.
1 Armour and Skirmish capable fleet booster. (Information is also recommended.)
1 Noctis.


First, a Word to the Wise:
This method of running sites is not noob friendly.
It requires heavy asset, ISK and SP investments to be successful.
Yes, you can run this fleet with level 4 skills across the board on your capital pilots but at this level of investment, don't be a scrub.
Train T2 siege, train gunnery support skills to 5 (yes, all of them), train carrier 5, train dread 5, hell, train salvaging 5.
Don't think about 'is it worth it' to train 45 days for dread 5. You're flying the biggest, baddest ships you can fit into a WH, just train it. (The obvious benefit in PVP is also obvious.)


In Theory:
The basic theory of full capital escalations is simple. Use an Archon for reps, Loki for webs and target painters, dreads for DPS and a second carrier for the last escalation wave.
Fleet boosts are needed to keep everyone alive and get enough range on the webs and the Noctis cleans up.

You should only be killing the escalation battleships and the first wave, making sure to leave 1 trigger alive. Leaving the trigger alive resets the site at downtime and you can run the escalations again the next day.


Anomaly Notes:
Do not run this fleet in a Black Hole, Pulsar or Cataclysmic.
Magnetars are great for Moros dreads but Revs suffer on tracking.
Wolf Rayet is the easiest due to tank bonus.
Red Giant has little effect, it means you can use smart bombs to kill frigs.


In Practice:
The reality of it is that in practice, running capital escalations gets done badly a lot and ends up in lost ships and inefficient site running all too often.
There is a big difference in being able to muddle through an escalation without losing ships and being able to run them well.

When site running goes wrong, most of the time it comes down to horrible fittings or pilots not being prepared for what they are warping into and panicking.
If at all possible, I would highly recommend running with at least one pilot who has run sites successfully before your first few times.
This isn’t always possible so I will run through what each ship needs to do to stay alive and play its role correctly below.


The Method:
Setting up your fleet is fairly simple.
Booster sits in wing command, loki/first carrier sits in squad command, everything else in squad.
Squad commander tags the BSs.

Warp in your first carrier (Archon) first. As soon as it lands, warp in first dread and Loki, have Loki orbit carrier at 500m.
When the dread comes out of warp, align it back to wherever it came from for fast slow down and siege it when it hits around 5m/s velocity.
From there, web and shoot in order of tags.

Once 4-5 battleships and any battleships from the normal first wave are dead, warp in the second dread.
Once there are 8 battleships left, warp in the second carrier.

Note, the dreads may bump the carrier a bit if it isn't in triage, make sure it stays in refit range of the dreads.

If the trigger is a battleship, keep the second carrier on field to keep the Noctis alive while salvaging.
Use EC drones from the carriers to jam out any scramming triggers.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

#2 - 2012-08-17 02:15:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
The Ships:
I have listed the ships you need above. Here are the specifics on how to use each one.

The First Carrier:
The first carrier's role is to keep the Loki, and itself, alive and to keep the Loki capped up.
In addition, it can be used to kill sleeper cruisers with its drones.

This carrier needs to be an Archon. Sorry, but if you're a carrier pilot in wormhole space and don't fly an Archon, go train it right now.
You should not need to triage the first carrier but if the sleepers primary it for longer than usual you will need to, so make sure it is triage capable and has stront.

The Archon needs to have 2 local reps, 2 remote reps and 2 cap transfers.
It needs 1 EANM, T2 CCC rigs and cap mods everywhere else. (Faction CPRs.)
Do NOT fit more tank than this or you will cap out and get everyone killed.

As first carrier, you will need to run 1 remote rep and 2 cap transfers on the Loki. Stagger your cap transfers to keep its cap up easier.
If the Loki takes heavy agro for a long time you will need to cycle the second rep on it too.
You should also keep 1 local rep running at all times, this can save you in case of a disconnect.

Anomaly Notes:
You will never need more than 1 rep on the Loki in a Wolf Rayet.


The Loki:
The role of the Loki is to web and paint sleeper battleships so that the dreads can hit them.
Generally the Loki will also be in squad command position so that it can tag the targets but this can also be done by the first carrier.
Orbit the carrier at 500m to help sig tank.

The Loki needs to have 3 faction webs, Fed Navy recommended, and 2 target painters.
It should be putting 2 webs and both painters on the primary target and 1 web on the secondary target.

While many people don't, you should fit guns on your Loki and use it to kill off sleeper frigs. 5 dual 180s fit with 3% PG implant and do the job just fine.

Anomaly Notes:
You will need to fit 2 T2 targeting range rigs in a Magnetar to be able to lock out far enough.


The First Dread:
This should be your highest skilled pilot. The speed at which this dread can kill the sleeper battleships will determine the safety and efficiency of your site running.

If possible, make the first dread a Moros. In PVE, it actually does only slightly more DPS at the same range as a Revelation due to using T1 ammo, which should be uranium (aim for ~35km optimal), but it has much better tracking which means it applies DPS better than a Rev.
Rev should always use faction ammo since it lasts for ages and is dirt cheap.

The basic fitting rule for PVE dreads are:
T2 siege
meta guns (optional but highly recommended)
3 damage mods
1 meta local rep
2 faction, or better, EANMs
1 sensor booster
T2 capacitor rigs (CCCs and mem cells both work)
Tracking mods everywhere else, pimp to taste

Unlike the Archon, the dreads cannot tank the sleepers indefinitely and as such, you will likely need to refit mods off the carrier if you are taking heavy agro, which you generally will.
To this end, all dreads must have spare tank (DC, EANMs and active hardeners) and cap mods in their cargo. Even things like reinforced bulk heads are good to have if you really get into trouble.

Refitting on the fly and knowing when to refit is something that you will need to gain experience with to get the hang of.
Until you do, refit to more tank early. Drop a TE for a DC as soon as you start taking agro and drop another TE/damage mod for a 3rd EANM if they stay on you.
At the ~40% cap mark, start fitting cap rechargers and CPRs to stay above 33%.
If your dread is in trouble, don't be ashamed to drop siege and tell the Archon to triage to rep and cap you up.

Once you gain enough experience running first dread, you will be able to start swapping out mods later, or even not at all.

As a note on the rigs you choose, CCCs will help you recover cap faster but mem cells give you a much bigger buffer, meaning you don't run low for longer.
It's really up to personal preference (I use mem cells) and ultimately, most people run CCCs because they’re half the price.

Anomaly Notes:
Being in a Wolf Rayet is roughly the equivalent of having an extra A-Type EANM fit. As such, you will rarely need to refit, if ever.
In a Magnetar, you really want the first dread to be a Moros since the tracking on the Revelation really suffers (it does still work fine if you don't have any alternative though).


The Second Dread:
Your second dread works much the same as the first dread except there is a lot less pressure on it.
The sleepers will rarely primary it heavily and with 2 dreads on field the battleships die much faster.
As such, this pilot can be less skilled. If you do not have 2 skilled dread pilots available, you can just warp the second dread in and out to trigger the wave.

Same piloting principles apply for this dread as the first.


The Second Carrier:
This carrier is only really there to trigger the second carrier escalation wave. It should just warp in and straight out.
If you need to, use it to kill any remaining sleeper cruisers/frigs with drones.

Anomaly Notes:
You can fit smartbombs and kill frigs with the second carrier in a Red Giant if you don’t have guns on your Loki. Warning: Doing so agros your entire fleet.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

#3 - 2012-08-17 02:15:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
The Fleet Booster:
The booster doesn't really do anything other than sit at a POS with links running.
You should be running these T2 links, in order of importance:

Web range - Mandatory
Armour resists - Mandatory
Rep amount
Ewar strength
Rep cap use
Sig radius

Note that the rep amount and cap use links do not affect capital local reps so they only boost your remote reps on the Loki which isn’t strictly needed.

The booster should preferably be in a Loki but a Claymore, Legion, Damnation or even a humble Drake work fine too.
The boosting pilot should have a Skirmish mindlink plugged in.

A Skirmished mindlinked Loki booster bumps out Loki webs to 53.5km.
You need to be able to web out to at least 45km so work out you booster with that range in mind.


The Noctis:
Salvaging isn't exactly rocket science, I'll leave the salvager/tractor ratio arguments up to personal preference.

The Noctis pilot needs ORE Industrial skill to at least 3 to have sufficient tractor range and not need to slow boat for hours.

The Noctis should have 2 shield extenders and a damage control so that it can tank a frig or cruiser trigger without assistance. It should also have a warp core stab fit so that it can warp out of sites where the trigger scrams. It needs an 800mm plate and a carrier repping it to tank battleship triggers. (Or you can use a Falcon to jam them out.)

Anomaly Notes:
You will need to fit a sensor booster in a Magnetar if you have a warp core stab fit.


Final Thoughts:
Running sites with this fleet is by far the most efficient method of ISK making around.
You're looking at ~700-750mil per site and you can comfortably run 4 sites an hour, more with an experienced crew.
Ultimately, if you run sites in this manner you will quickly gain enough ISK to stop caring about it.

That said, this initial investment in such a PVE fleet is not small and is not available to all.
Refer to my Carrier + Battleship site running guide of a cheaper and lower SP/ISK method.

You also run a very real danger of losing the entire fleet if the wrong people happen to connect to your wormhole when you are committed in a site.
I would recommend taking care and know what to do if you do get attacked, be it stay and fight or log off.

As always, fly fun.

JM

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

#4 - 2012-08-17 02:15:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
Recommended Fits:

Quote:
[Archon, PVE]
Capital Inefficient Armor Repair Unit
Capital Inefficient Armor Repair Unit
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Triage Module II
Capital Remote Armor Repair System I
Capital Remote Armor Repair System I
Capital Energy Transfer Array I
Capital Energy Transfer Array I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Quote:
[Loki, PVE]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Centum C-Type Energized Explosive Membrane
Centum C-Type Energized Kinetic Membrane
Damage Control II

Republic Fleet Target Painter
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter
Loki Electronics - Immobility Drivers
Loki Engineering - Supplemental Coolant Injector
Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
Loki Propulsion - Chassis Optimization


Quote:
[Revelation, PVE]
Capital Inefficient Armor Repair Unit
Centum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Centum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script

Siege Module II
Dual Modal Giga Pulse Laser I, Blood Multifrequency XL
Dual Modal Giga Pulse Laser I, Blood Multifrequency XL
Dual Modal Giga Pulse Laser I, Blood Multifrequency XL

Large Semiconductor Memory Cell II
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell II
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I


Quote:
[Moros, PVE]
Capital Inefficient Armor Repair Unit
Centum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Centum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Tracking Enhancer II
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer

Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Siege Module II
Limited Mega Ion Siege Blaster I, Plutonium Charge XL
Limited Mega Ion Siege Blaster I, Plutonium Charge XL
Limited Mega Ion Siege Blaster I, Plutonium Charge XL

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Note that the dread fits are not static, you will likely need to swap out for more tank/cap regen as you start taking heavy damage and neuts so make sure you have spare mods in cargo.
Mem cells or CCCs are more or less up to personal preference on the dreads. I use mem cells on my rev as it has more base cap and I find I almost never need to swap out for more regen with them as the cap buffer is huge.
Most people use CCCs since they are much cheaper and work fine too.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Pandemic Legion
#5 - 2012-08-17 03:38:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Angsty Teenager
In my own experience, you can fit 4 slots of tank on an archon (2 rep, 1 enam, 1 dcu) and it will never cap out as long as you turn off your RR when you are getting primaried. My carrier pilot has **** skills as well, was running with carrier 3, no triage, and cap remote repair and cap transfer 3.

It did end up in half hull one time because I burnt out one of my enams (I was running 2 enams at the time and this is why i swapped to a DCU, so i would have more hull buffer in case it happened again), but it lived, lol, and never capped out.
#6 - 2012-08-17 04:33:59 UTC
Well, lets just say that a certain set of people i know lost 3 webbing lokis and nearly 2 caps and needed to be bailed out by 8 guardians this week because the first carrier had more tank and capped out...
Obviously there are things you can change up and some that are up to preference/experience.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Pandemic Legion
#7 - 2012-08-17 05:11:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Angsty Teenager
That seems a little odd to me. Looking at my fit in EFT right now (with 4 slots of tank), I have 706 GJ/s (with all V skills, probably like 650 with my skills), and if I'm only running both my cap reps I'm only using 213 GJ/s of that. That's a full 500 GJ/s of extra cap, and I mean, worst case scenario where you have maybe 16 sleepless guardians on field all neuting the carrier, they're not going to neut 500 GJ/s.

Seems to me like a carrier getting capped out would only happen if the carrier started to get neuted and never stopped running unessecary modules (i.e. he should stop giving both cap transfers to the loki, giving only 1 instead or none at all depending on how many of the sleepers are neuting the carrier). I could see it burning all the cap and then getting stuck at 0 being unable to recharge, but as long as the carrier is paying attention i see no reason why it should get capped out (and in my experience this has never been the case).

EDIT: I suppose in reality it's better to go with less tank and more cap as long as you have triage since you can just triage if you are dying due to lack of tank. In my case my carrier pilot didn't have triage so I focused on making sure that it could tank enough. I'll say that trying to do a triple escalation C5 with a carrier that only has 3000dps tank is not super smart, I changed the way I did sites after a close call.

EDIT 2: I actually have some questions for fun/because I'm curious.

What do you think about using a rapier instead of a loki? The TP bonus seems really nice, but the downside is that you have ****** tank and a terribly low buffer--I'm not even sure armor reps would catch on a rapier. Have you tried it?

Also, what about running in a pulsar using shield tanked moros + a chimera + a 1 slot tanked loki. You get a cap recharge bonus, the loki only needs resists since it gets the WH bonus to shield amount.

How did you/do you deal with moving the assloads of stront you need into a C5 or C6?

What do you when you run out of sites to run (even while farming them by only doing the escalations)?
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#8 - 2012-08-17 13:50:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Pulsar is perfectly possible with this method you just need to change the ships/fits up a bit i.e. you can't use an archon - shield moros with the right fit works, chimera and loki - you definitely need a full set of siege links and skirmish links tho.

i.e. loki something like this: (can be done cheaper but I like to take my fits from the top)

[Loki, Webber 2]
Damage Control II
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender
Dread Guristas Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pith B-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter

Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Electronics - Immobility Drivers
Loki Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
Loki Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers


Hobgoblin II x5
Hobgoblin II x5

Its cap stable in the pulsar - and depending on what the guardians are or aren't shooting at you may not even have to triage the carrier - the loki can be kept alive with its high resists + siege links by a non triage carrier and the carrier only needs to triage if it takes sustained damage - its local tank + bonused RR from the loki should keep it comfortable aslong as the dread is killing stuff nicely (In a C5/6 pulsar with a proper fit and siege links a chimera has an absolute ton of EHP).

The dread is the main concern as if theres any delay in it applying damage to the guardians there is a real possibility of it getting capped out and killed.

EDIT: You can drop a bit of tank on the loki, triage the carrier always and stick another web/TP or 2 on there but from my experience aslong as you properly fit the dread and the dread pilot has good skills it only decreases the time on site by a couple of minutes tops if that. If your dread pilot doesn't have great skills then you'd probably need 2 lokis really one TPing and one webbing... don't even think about using a huginn let alone a rapier for this in a pulasr it will get nuked.


EDIT2: Couple of notes on the loki in a pulsar don't forget it gets its sig bloomed up a lot going both shield tanked and having the pulsar sig bloom so it will take a lot more damage from the escalation BS than an armor tanked one would - while you can probably get away with dropping the LSE if the carrier triages, the less you have to triage the carrier the easier it is for the carrier pilot to manage their cap. The other issue is that even with the cap regen sub-system its cap will frequently get nuked by the neuting and the capital energy xfer is a bit wasted as your injecting more cap in than the loki can take and getting neuted out more frequently than a capital RR module is useful for replenishing - if you have the extra pilots then running 2 lokis and putting cap xfers on instead of shield RR and chaining cap between each other can help with this a lot - also means you have plenty of webbing and TPing possibilities.
#9 - 2012-08-17 23:41:41 UTC
Ok, yes, you CAN do it in a pulsar but it will be far less efficient.
the difference between 2 webs and 3 webs + 2 TPs is huge.

Honestly, even if you have no archon pilots and only a chimera pilot, youre better off putting an armour RR on the chimera and using it for first carrier in a non pulsar WH.
It gets the same tank as an archon so it will be fine, you just need to run a shield resist link too.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Sleeper Social Club
#10 - 2012-08-18 21:35:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Hollidai
-Archon with 2 EANMs and proper links can tank a site on 1 repper.
-Add 1 more dread to the mix, warp all three to the archon/loki once they have landed, PEWPEW. <- Not recommended until you're comfortable with how to run sites.
-Get your archon pilot to get proper implants.
Odin's Call
#11 - 2012-08-23 19:12:19 UTC
Nicely done. Great read.
Adhocracy
#12 - 2012-08-23 19:58:02 UTC
F**king carebears.
Whatever.
#13 - 2012-08-23 20:08:22 UTC
M Thomas wrote:
F**king carebears.

Some people be acting like they know it all.
#14 - 2012-08-24 06:01:27 UTC
M Thomas wrote:
F**king carebears.


yes, cos you get the isk for your T3s out of thin air.
spare me.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Greater Realms
#15 - 2012-08-25 09:34:16 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
M Thomas wrote:
F**king carebears.


yes, cos you get the isk for your T3s out of thin air.
BITE me.


Corrected!

Great read..... I've sent it to a few of my corpies as they can fly most of the stuff you have listed. Sadly, this might mean the end of C5's for me though as I am not trained (currently) in any of those ships.
Unseen Wolves
#16 - 2012-08-27 22:18:40 UTC
Swap noctis for Rorquall fitted for salvage and you can salvage on the go
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-08-27 23:00:42 UTC
great read..

Do you run this solo or with corpies??
#18 - 2012-08-27 23:28:13 UTC
Elli M0o wrote:
great read..

Do you run this solo or with corpies??

Yes, great read.

c5 / c6 sites are designed to be run by multiple people - but I would imagine that a talented multi-boxer could run them "solo".

Personally, I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of a DC under those conditions!

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!

#19 - 2012-08-28 20:40:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
i do run the site solo on occasion.
i do just 3 caps, leaving out the last carrier, so that the whole fleet could fit through one WH.
I mainly wanted to try it to see if i could pull it off. The isk is also quite nice of course.

when running solo, a DC is actually fine because everything just dissapears in one min since the fleet isnt agroed.
obviously it isnt risk free and far from ideal so make sure your net and PC can handle the 5-6 accounts. (I had to buy more RAM to do it safely :P .)

now that i have a decent isk buffer i just run them with corpies in our home system.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Pandemic Legion
#20 - 2012-08-29 16:40:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Angsty Teenager
What do you think are the chances of getting totally owned and dying if somebody tunnels into my C5 at the exact moment I hit siege on my dread are?. Assuming that I can't extract myself from the site after the first siege cycle ends and I have to kill all/most of the sleepless guardians and then warp out.

I mean, they have only 10 minutes to figure out what's going on my WH, form up some sort of gang (more than just a cov ops, because if they land an arazu or proteus or something in my site alone, I'm just going to web it and start blapping it with the dread, and hope that even if I can't hit initially, the sleepers will web it and neut it for me as well), and then manage to land in my site before I warp off.

And, assuming that I do manage to get tackled in a site, is it even feasible to kill a gang by triaging the archon and just fighting them using the dread and loki to take down large targets and then try to go for cruise sized targets? I mean, i figure at least if they warp in a bhaalgorn, I'll be able to kill that, I suppose I'm asking more about the viability of killing T3's--would they be similar in difficulty to killing sleeper cruisers? (i.e. you just need to wait till the webs have slowed them down enough?).

EDIT: Oh yea, what do you do when running a quarantine area? Do you just not shoot any of the initial spawn and just fit like 50 million warp core stabs to the dread and loki and hope they don't point the carrier at the end? Supposedly the site triggers are random, which is why I ask. In my experience, I've been able to kill all the stuff that points you without the site ever spawning a new wave, (which is around 10+ seperate sites, since I assume the trigger is the same in an individual site when doing capital escalation farming).
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