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[Winter] Support Frigates

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C C P Alliance
#1 - 2012-08-20 12:15:33 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Ytterbium
:Edit: I switched the name of the thread to match the new naming convention we're using. Logistics is the name of a T2 class so we're calling these frigates and the new T1 repping cruisers "Support" to avoid confusion.
:Edit#2: After testing on Duality we're giving them more scan res across the board and cutting the cycle time of small armor and shield reps in half so that these ships can respond more quickly to fast-paced frigate combat.

Hello again everyone. Hope you all had a good weekend.

This post will cover the last four tech one frigates to get a discussion thread. This is in many ways the trickiest but also the most rewarding part of the winter frigate rebalance, since we are creating a new role for these frigates and hopefully shaking up frigate combat quite a bit.

Each race will be getting a tech one support frigate, bonused in remote repairing. These ships will be replacing the mining frigates that are being displaced by the new ORE frigate, taking the Inquisitor from the Amarr lineup instead because we already stole the Tormentor to make a mini-Armageddon.

Our goals here are
1) Create a new set of interesting gameplay choices when flying or fighting against frigate groups
2) Provide an upgrade path for new players on their way to Logistics ships

These ships are weaker for their size than our T2 Logistics Ships are, and that is by design. This reflects both the lower cost and SP investment and our desire that these ships compliment current frigate warfare without eclipsing all the other ships in the lineup. I am aware that any expansion of logistics capability in eve makes things harder for solo players, and we are endeavoring to make sure that these frigates add options to combat instead of taking them away.

So these ships have a max rep range of 28.8km with T2 reps and are generally among the slowest of the tech one frigates. We built them quite heavy so that they perform closer to destroyers/interdictors than the other frigates. Piloting these ships effectively in the midst of a battle will require some thought, helping create ships that are easy to get into but take time to master.

Along with the changes to the ships we are also changing the fitting requirements of small remote armor and shield reps.
We're also cutting the cycle time of small reps in half so that they can respond faster to quick frigate combat.
Details of those changes are (apologies for the formatting):
Meta typeName power cpu duration RepAmount capNeed
0 Small Remote Armor Repair System I 6 10 2500 40 29
1 Small I-ax Regenerative Projector 6 9 2500 42 29
2 Small Coaxial Regenerative Projector 6 9 2500 44 29
3 Small 'Arup' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction 6 8 2500 46 29
4 Small 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction 6 8 2500 48 29
5 Small Remote Armor Repair System II 7 12 2250 48 27
6 Brotherhood' Small Remote Armor Repair System I 6 10 2500 40 29
7 Beatnik' Small Remote Armor Repair system I 5 8 2500 48 27
11 Centii C-Type Small Remote Armor Repair System 8 10 2500 66 34
11 Coreli C-Type Small Remote Armor Repair System 6 10 2500 59 30
12 Centii B-Type Small Remote Armor Repair System 9 10 2500 72 34
12 Coreli B-Type Small Remote Armor Repair System 6 10 2500 65 30
13 Centii A-Type Small Remote Armor Repair System 10 10 2500 78 34
13 Coreli A-Type Small Remote Armor Repair System 6 10 2500 70 30
0 Small Shield Transporter I 3 35 2500 40 33
1 Small Asymmetric Barrier Transpositioner I 3 33 2500 42 33
2 Small Murky Shield Screen Transmitter I 3 32 2500 44 33
3 Small 'Atonement' Ward Projector 3 28 2500 46 33
4 Small S95A Partial Shield Transporter 3 30 2500 48 33
5 Small Shield Transporter II 4 42 2250 48 30
11 Gistii C-Type Small Shield Transporter 3 37 2500 59 33
11 Pithi C-Type Small Shield Transporter 3 50 2500 66 38
12 Gistii B-Type Small Shield Transporter 3 37 2500 65 33
12 Pithi B-Type Small Shield Transporter 3 52 2500 72 38
13 Gistii A-Type Small Shield Transporter 3 37 2500 70 33
13 Pithi A-Type Small Shield Transporter 3 54 2500 78 38

Here's the stats on the ships themselves. I won't give the difference from before since these guys are in a whole new role so the previous stats don't really matter.:

Inquisitor:
Frigate skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Remote Armor Repair amount
10% reduction in Remote Armor Repair cap use

Role Bonus:
500% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers
Slot layout: 3 H, 2 M, 4 L, 2 turrets
Fittings: 51 PWG, 135 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 225 / 500 / 330
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 400 / 200s / 2
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 310 / 3.6 / 1470000 / 4.95s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 36km / 900 / 7
Sensor strength: 10 Radar
Signature radius: 34
Cargo capacity: 250

Bantam:
Frigate skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Shield Transporter boost amount
10% reduction in Shield Transporter cap use

Role Bonus:
500% bonus to the range of Shield Transporters
Slot layout: 3 H, 4 M, 2 L, 2 turrets
Fittings: 39 PWG, 215 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 500 / 225 / 310
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 380 / 190s / 2
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 300 / 3.75 / 1480000 / 5.19s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 40km / 850 / 7
Sensor strength: 12 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 35
Cargo capacity: 270

Navitas:
Frigate skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Remote Armor Repair amount
10% reduction in Remote Armor Repair cap use

Role Bonus:
500% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers
Slot layout: 3 H, 3 M, 3 L, 2 turrets
Fittings: 49 PWG, 145 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 250 / 400 / 335
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 390 / 195s / 2
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 330 / 3.4 / 1450000 / 4.61s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 38km / 875 / 7
Sensor strength: 11 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 36
Cargo capacity: 280

Burst:
Frigate skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Shield Transporter boost amount
10% reduction in Shield Transporter cap use

Role Bonus:
500% bonus to the range of Shield Transporters
Slot layout: 3 H, 3 M, 3 L, 2 turrets
Fittings: 40 PWG, 205 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 400 / 250 / 290
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 370 / 185s / 2
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 335 / 3.55 / 1420000 / 4.72s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 34km / 925 / 7
Sensor strength: 9 Ladar
Signature radius: 33
Cargo capacity: 260

Let us know what you think!

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Test Alliance Please Ignore
#2 - 2012-08-20 12:19:57 UTC
:slick: Hooray Logi Frigates
Honorable Third Party
#3 - 2012-08-20 12:20:11 UTC
Winter, y u coming so slow.
HYDRA RELOADED
#4 - 2012-08-20 12:20:18 UTC
Honestly, what role are these going to fill? Other than theme based fleets, Im not really sure where they will fit. Their range is a bit short for "actual" fleets, and they seem incredibly overpowered for people using them to dualbox pve, or to camp a frigate plex.
Pandemic Legion
#5 - 2012-08-20 12:21:35 UTC
looks cool, (i want covert ops logi frigs)
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-08-20 12:21:38 UTC
This is fantastic.

No really, it is.
#7 - 2012-08-20 12:22:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
Oh my.

Frig roams just went from suicide fun gangs to scary effective and hard to deal with harassment. Also, now our newbros have options in fleets!
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-08-20 12:23:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Celestarias
This is amazing.

Now I can scream about people spamming shield broadcasts in my frigate fleets too! :sun:
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2012-08-20 12:23:57 UTC
Jaguar supremacy for life. Deal with it.
HYDRA RELOADED
#10 - 2012-08-20 12:26:00 UTC
I appreciate that they are slow and fragile but

1) With the cost of small reps, I dont think its reasonable to expect a t2 fit - deadspace reps will be the norm.

2) Logi dont get +50% rep power, these do.

3) For PvE, the tank and speed on these is meaningless

4) For camping a plex, you can have this orbit 30km away while your main sits on the warpin
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-08-20 12:26:33 UTC
I've never been so happy.
#12 - 2012-08-20 12:26:48 UTC
more drones for self defense would be nice

T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely.

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Caldari State
#13 - 2012-08-20 12:27:38 UTC
Yes yes a thousand times yes
Frigate roams became 1000x deadlier now
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-08-20 12:30:24 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
more drones for self defense would be nice


They aren't for self defense, they are for assigning out and whoring killmails.
#15 - 2012-08-20 12:30:31 UTC
Awesome!
now please make a tech II version!

these ships are just too awesome for us vets not to have one and a tech II version is just pure sweet!

make the gal have a bonus to remote ECCM

make the caldari have a bonus to remote sensor boosters

make the ammar have a bonus ( well i dunno what counters target painting remotely?) you would need some new mod thats a remote senor shadow (reduces sig raduis of target ship)

then tracking link for minnie to counter tracking disrupters...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

#16 - 2012-08-20 12:30:39 UTC
Cool

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

HYDRA RELOADED
#17 - 2012-08-20 12:32:24 UTC
Also these ships are not slow - they have the same base speed as hulls such as the rifter.
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-08-20 12:32:41 UTC
So does this mean you're gonna make armor reps start at the beginning of the cycle? Because 5 seconds is a long time to wait for a rep to land in a frigate.
C C P Alliance
#19 - 2012-08-20 12:33:18 UTC
Ok answers to excellent questions coming up:

Michael Harari wrote:
I appreciate that they are slow and fragile but
1) With the cost of small reps, I dont think its reasonable to expect a t2 fit - deadspace reps will be the norm.

Yup, and we balanced them with the idea that T2 will be baseline and C and B type reps relatively common. I've been keeping a close eye on the number of small faction reps in existance, and they're within a range I'm happy with.

Michael Harari wrote:

2) Logi dont get +50% rep power, these do.

Instead, logi get to use reps from a size larger. The rep power of these ships relative to their size class is significantly less than logistics ships.

Michael Harari wrote:

3) For PvE, the tank and speed on these is meaningless

Not going to go into detail since it's not my team, but there are plans to deal with that.

Michael Harari wrote:

4) For camping a plex, you can have this orbit 30km away while your main sits on the warpin

Indeed, but minor plex camps are already so powerful that I think the solution lies with giving people other plexes to hit so that we keep gangs moving.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

HYDRA RELOADED
#20 - 2012-08-20 12:34:57 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:


Michael Harari wrote:

4) For camping a plex, you can have this orbit 30km away while your main sits on the warpin

Indeed, but minor plex camps are already so powerful that I think the solution lies with giving people other plexes to hit so that we keep gangs moving.


Im talking more about the 2/10 static plexes, rather than FW plexes.
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