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The voting reform discussion

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Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2012-09-11 13:17:19 UTC
candidate x: hates eve, loves sex with goats

I can get behind this (much like candidate X with a goat)
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-09-11 13:25:20 UTC
I think the current system is fine, with a single vote for each account. Any problems with large organized blocks gaming the system or null-sec getting too high representation is easily remedied by increasing the amount of voters. In order to do so, the CSM must be more visible for the playerbase as a whole.

Let me quickly tell a bit about my own situation, to show you what I mean. I'm a fairly active player. I have 3 accounts, one which is my main character that I pvp with. The second is my PI account, while the third is a high-sec trader/manufacturer. I read several EVE blogs daily, and I pay attention to our alliance forums and various news sites. I only started playing back in February, so I'm a fairly new player. Still though, I think it's safe to say I'm pay more attention to what happens with EVE than the average player. I'm not the most hardcore by far though.

The whole mess with Trebors thread is honestly the first thing I've seen CSM do since Mittani was thrown out. I can't come up with a single thing I can remember them doing, or a single change they've been responsible for. Why should the average player care about voting, when they don't even know if the CSM is doing anything? Even those who took the time to vote, cannot know if their representative is doing anything. I know there was some minutes released, but very few people are honestly going to read through that. All this creates an extreme voter apathy. I'll likely vote for whoever the goon leadership endorses, just because I have no idea what the CSM has done or who is responsible for what.

I will say that the way the various CSM members handled Trebors thread, has made me even less impressed with the CSM, but at least it gives me an impression about the various members. There's literally not a single other thing I have to form an impression about them, which is quite sad considering how long it's been since the election.

CCP and/or CSM needs to do something to give the CSM exposure, and give us all information on what the current members are doing, if anything. Right now, they might as well do absolutely nothing for all we know. Find a way to do this, and more people will vote, fixing the problems you are concerned about.
#23 - 2012-09-11 13:37:31 UTC
Sjonkel Dunk wrote:
I think the current system is fine, with a single vote for each account. Any problems with large organized blocks gaming the system or null-sec getting too high representation is easily remedied by increasing the amount of voters. In order to do so, the CSM must be more visible for the playerbase as a whole.

Let me quickly tell a bit about my own situation, to show you what I mean. I'm a fairly active player. I have 3 accounts, one which is my main character that I pvp with. The second is my PI account, while the third is a high-sec trader/manufacturer. I read several EVE blogs daily, and I pay attention to our alliance forums and various news sites. I only started playing back in February, so I'm a fairly new player. Still though, I think it's safe to say I'm pay more attention to what happens with EVE than the average player. I'm not the most hardcore by far though.

The whole mess with Trebors thread is honestly the first thing I've seen CSM do since Mittani was thrown out. I can't come up with a single thing I can remember them doing, or a single change they've been responsible for. Why should the average player care about voting, when they don't even know if the CSM is doing anything? Even those who took the time to vote, cannot know if their representative is doing anything. I know there was some minutes released, but very few people are honestly going to read through that. All this creates an extreme voter apathy. I'll likely vote for whoever the goon leadership endorses, just because I have no idea what the CSM has done or who is responsible for what.

I will say that the way the various CSM members handled Trebors thread, has made me even less impressed with the CSM, but at least it gives me an impression about the various members. There's literally not a single other thing I have to form an impression about them, which is quite sad considering how long it's been since the election.

CCP and/or CSM needs to do something to give the CSM exposure, and give us all information on what the current members are doing, if anything. Right now, they might as well do absolutely nothing for all we know. Find a way to do this, and more people will vote, fixing the problems you are concerned about.

Well said.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Caldari State
#24 - 2012-09-11 13:44:47 UTC
I think talking about specific voting systems is getting way too ahead of ourselves. If effort is expended into anything RE: CSM elections, it should be primarily geared towards increasing awareness and trying to (a) make sure people know about the CSM and (b) determining if they want any part in the process.

The first part to this is to really reach out to the playerbase to make sure they even know about this:

- Eve-mails to every character and E-mails to every account annoucing CSM landmark events, i.e. Candidacy period is opened, voting has started, here's the results, CSM summit is happening, CSM minutes are here. That sort of thing. Nothing terribly invasive or frequent, but enough to make sure as many people are in on this as possible.

- Client splash screens. This can be done for all of the above, and when it comes time to vote, perhaps in-client voting options? "I wish to vote now", "I wish to vote later", "I abstain from voting", and "What is this all about?" or something like that. IMO, it's important to make sure this isn't forced, just a convenience option. Forcing people will just result in button mashing to get into the game, which helps nobody at all.

The next step is to create as welcoming an environment for the new participants as possible:

- Ditch the Assembly hall and turn Jita Park Speakers Corner into *the* CSM forum. Assembly Hall is an awful, outmoded idea that not only comes off as a stuffy clone of Features & Ideas, but it paints the wrong image of what the CSM is even for. They're an advocacy group, not a dictaphone for the players' ideas.

- Encourage far, far more CSM participation in this new, single CSM forum. One of the sources of outrage of the debacle known as the Voting Reform thread was due to the CSM's near radio silence on the forums before that, so the impression was "they came out of the woodwork for THIS?". JPSC is a dead zone right now, and I'd be willing to bet a large part of that is due to the basically zero CSM participation in any of the discussions that actually happen. Change this and I'd be willing to bet it'd actually become populated, as opposed to just the "Frying Doom Argument Sanctuary" that it is now.



Once the above is done, wait an election, see what kind of data you get (abstains vs new voters vs straight-up ignores etc), and then we can have a discussion about voting systems with either (a) the new players or (b) knowing that there won't be many new players. Until that point, talking about it just turns the CSM into even more of a closed system than it already is.

Obviously, none of this is a guarantee of anything. It might be entirely ignored or completely ineffectual. I think the ideas themselves are good representations of the directions we need to go if we actually want more participation in the CSM at all, both from a candidate and player POV.

#25 - 2012-09-11 13:52:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
CliveWarren wrote:
"Frying Doom Argument Sanctuary"

To be honest I think that is probably the best argument for voter aweness that I have ever heard. Yes most of the year I do have a forum almost all to myself for most of the year. In a game of 350,000 accounts that really sums up the need for player awareness of the CSM.

So I suppose the next statement is therefore stop "Frying Doom and his Argument Sanctuary, tell the populous about the CSM a lot more" Smile

Edit: Oh and get out of my forum you damn kids....Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Snuffed Out
#26 - 2012-09-11 14:06:07 UTC
(Being able to search for CSM forum tags wouldn't hurt)
Goonswarm Federation
#27 - 2012-09-11 14:23:08 UTC
Good to see that someone will actually give us their opinion on the matter, thanks CCP Xhagen.

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them

Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-09-11 14:23:23 UTC
CliveWarren wrote:
- Eve-mails to every character and E-mails to every account annoucing CSM landmark events, i.e. Candidacy period is opened, voting has started, here's the results, CSM summit is happening, CSM minutes are here. That sort of thing. Nothing terribly invasive or frequent, but enough to make sure as many people are in on this as possible.

This is done today. Or, at least email, I don't remember when it comes to evemails, since I get very little interesting evemails so I end up bulk ignoring most of it.

CliveWarren wrote:
- Client splash screens. This can be done for all of the above, and when it comes time to vote, perhaps in-client voting options? "I wish to vote now", "I wish to vote later", "I abstain from voting", and "What is this all about?" or something like that. IMO, it's important to make sure this isn't forced, just a convenience option. Forcing people will just result in button mashing to get into the game, which helps nobody at all.

I believe client splash screens are done already, although the suggestion someone else came up with of being able to buy banner space, maybe even with attack banners (all within reason, of course) strikes me as hilarious, and something which could whip up some interest. Titillating news/drama titillates, after all.

If incarna hadn't been such a dud, and the CQ had been more prevalent than it is now, then maybe we could've started having in-game ads which display out and about in various station environments, where candidates could purchase their own blurb or x second animation etc. Maybe we'll have this by CSM20.

As for the in-client voting option, the most obvious thing here would be to fully utilize the ingame browser. Barring that, maybe make the neocom spout a button at the bottom (near the undock button) which opens up the IGB at the voting page. But above all, as you say, the prime focus must be convenience, and not forcing anything.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Goonswarm Federation
#29 - 2012-09-11 14:43:08 UTC
CCP Xhagen wrote:
Ahoy.

So, putting Trebors idea aside for the moment, what election system would suit the CSM? A system that does not scare people away because of its complexity or added work for the voter (as voter apathy is a problem), but is still fair and good? Is the current system sufficient? Or should we focus more on matters to reduce the number of candidates on the ballot and not change the election system itself?

I would appreciate your input on this matter.


I think it is safe to say that "100 likes" is too low of a barrier to entry. Certainly it is something that was easily gamed by a large bloc (us) to our benefit, since a flood of crappy me-too candidates breaking up the highsec vote ensured that "their" representation was limited.

If you really want to see some change then it is time to integrate the CSM into the actual EVE client. I appreciate that this seems like a bigger change, but that's exactly why I'm suggesting it. Put a CSM button into the Neocom and make it display information about the candidates without use of the in-game browser. Let people click links to the browser from there to read about platforms, but let them vote from within the client itself and you will see a big uptick in voting.

The problem with voting systems is that various power groups in EVE are too small and hence too organized for any given system to not be gamed. That isn't limited to Goonswarm although the last 2 years have us being the most obvious example. But changing to a more complex system prooooooooobably just allows it to be gamed and broken more easily rather than less.
Shadow Cartel
#30 - 2012-09-11 14:58:44 UTC
CliveWarren wrote:
I think talking about specific voting systems is getting way too ahead of ourselves. If effort is expended into anything RE: CSM elections, it should be primarily geared towards increasing awareness and trying to (a) make sure people know about the CSM and (b) determining if they want any part in the process.

The first part to this is to really reach out to the playerbase to make sure they even know about this:

- Eve-mails to every character and E-mails to every account annoucing CSM landmark events, i.e. Candidacy period is opened, voting has started, here's the results, CSM summit is happening, CSM minutes are here. That sort of thing. Nothing terribly invasive or frequent, but enough to make sure as many people are in on this as possible.

- Client splash screens. This can be done for all of the above, and when it comes time to vote, perhaps in-client voting options? "I wish to vote now", "I wish to vote later", "I abstain from voting", and "What is this all about?" or something like that. IMO, it's important to make sure this isn't forced, just a convenience option. Forcing people will just result in button mashing to get into the game, which helps nobody at all.

The next step is to create as welcoming an environment for the new participants as possible:

- Ditch the Assembly hall and turn Jita Park Speakers Corner into *the* CSM forum. Assembly Hall is an awful, outmoded idea that not only comes off as a stuffy clone of Features & Ideas, but it paints the wrong image of what the CSM is even for. They're an advocacy group, not a dictaphone for the players' ideas.

- Encourage far, far more CSM participation in this new, single CSM forum. One of the sources of outrage of the debacle known as the Voting Reform thread was due to the CSM's near radio silence on the forums before that, so the impression was "they came out of the woodwork for THIS?". JPSC is a dead zone right now, and I'd be willing to bet a large part of that is due to the basically zero CSM participation in any of the discussions that actually happen. Change this and I'd be willing to bet it'd actually become populated, as opposed to just the "Frying Doom Argument Sanctuary" that it is now.


This is a very sensible approach to begin with. I especially agree that we need to streamline the forum categories, the fact that the Assembly Hall is a graveyard for every obscure idea in the game is a relic of the "old-school" way of running the CSM and needs to be deleted so that players know to post in Features and Ideas instead.

Summarizing the CSM's activities should be our own responsbility - this doesnt have to take place through evemail spam. I actually have a report I've been compiling over the weekend that will be posted on my blog within 24 hours here that will cover our work since the summit, and will release subsequent updates as we continue towards the Winter expansion. I will mirror each of these in Jita Park as well for the forum users.

I would also strongly urge CCP to implement searchable, linked tags for the CSM members much like we do with Dev posts. Players should be able to easily spot threads containing CSM postings, and be able to quickly jump between them as they do for developers. A lot of us are quite active on the forums, but players shouldn't have to click each of our names individually and read through our recent posts to find what they need, more visibility throughout the forums in general would be greatly appreciated, and is boosted by simply coding our tags the way the developer tags work.

We also desperately need a *single* email address, "CSM7" or something like that In-game, where all EVEmail can be sent to the entire CSM. Players could very well be contacting one of the non-contributing, inactive members and have their concerns DOA if the rest of us aren't aware that's going on. A single email point of contact ensures that we can all be held responsible for taking care of player concerns even if several members are slacking hard.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2012-09-11 15:13:28 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:

As for the in-client voting option, the most obvious thing here would be to fully utilize the ingame browser. Barring that, maybe make the neocom spout a button at the bottom (near the undock button) which opens up the IGB at the voting page. But above all, as you say, the prime focus must be convenience, and not forcing anything.


I would think this makes a ton of sense. As "useful and informative" splash ads on the log-in screen are, its safe to say that everyone who is going to the log in screen is doing in in order to log in as their singular priority, and probably only a tiny fraction even see the splash ads. I've lost count of the number of times I have already typed in my password and hit enter before noticing the ad title and thinking "hey, that sounds intresting"; by which time, I'm already leaving the screen, and "this advert will only show once" has ensured I've missed whatever it was mentioning. Add to the fact that anything that gets in the way of a player logging in will always risk getting ignored or discounted since it is getting in the way.

I would say the log-in screen is for that reason, a pretty bad advertising spot. And I can think of a much better one.

We are all used to the "skill training complete / you have x number of certificates" box on log-in. Its small, doesn't get in the way, doesn't obstruct what your doing. but it draws your eye by flashing up as you log on. How about adding CSM voting info there? During the voting period, a second box, alongside (or in the same place as) the "skill training complete" one flashes up - make it a contrasting colour to really stand it out, with "CSM voting open now - find out more" or some such. Have it fade out after a breif period, as the skill one does, but with a click-link that takes you to the in-game browser, and loads up the CSM info/voting page. After a day or two of this flashing up every log-on, it'll catch the player the day their not in a rush, when they have a spare moment to check this thing out, and acts as a constant reminder there is something to do.

All in one, this makes it noticible, but doesn't commit the cardinal sin that any log-in page advert / vote does - it doesn't get in the way when all the player wants to do is play.
C C P Alliance
#32 - 2012-09-11 15:14:29 UTC
Sal Volatile wrote:
I have to second the support for better minimum thresholds for candidates. I would argue that many of the "wasted" votes (a term I'm not entirely comfortable with but will use for convenience's sake) were given to candidates that were never really viable. For those who followed the elections, it was fairly easy to get a sense of which candidates were serious and likely to get a decent number of votes. To someone suddenly faced with a ballot and no prior knowledge of the candidates, it may have been hard to determine the viability of any given candidate over another, aside from the most obvious gimmicks.

A larger proportion of low information voters is both a result of and a requirement for increased participation, so the more that can be done to beef up the requirements for ballot access without making them too onerous, the more efficient the voting will be.

I agree with you that 'wasted' votes is an uncomfortable term - but this is perhaps not the best time to dig deeper into that.

I also agree that increasing the requirements to get on the ballot is needed. The test during the last election showed that it weeded out some candidates (I cannot remember the exact number), so putting it higher with a slight change to the system should be the way to go.
I haven't figured out how the change should be, but I believe most people agree that using forum 'Likes' should be abandoned Blink

CCP Xhagen | Associate Producer | @strangelocation

New Eden Trading Company.
#33 - 2012-09-11 15:21:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Alekseyev Karrde
Sal Volatile wrote:


Now, we could talk about civic virtue, or give people nag screens until they vote, or give them free mining implants for voting, or some other BS like that. We could say that we want to rise above the hype and drama of the CSM and make it all about civic duty. But what if we just embrace hype and drama instead, and make the hype and drama accessible to the average player who doesn't follow forums?

What if we have a fabulous new isk sink: CSM candidates can buy splash screen ads! We're talking attack ads here. Why not? Maximum drama, maximum hype.

What if there was some kind of regular polling that people could follow? Uh oh, looks like the nullsec candidates are poised to sweep this thing! Holy ****, I'm biting my nails here, guys! Better donate more isk to the highsec miners so they can buy more attack ads!

That is actually a ******* fantastic idea! As long as the price/availability of ads are not such that it's out of reach of the majority of candidates I'm all for it.

As for polls, sure why not. Might be a lot of work for CCP though.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM

#34 - 2012-09-11 15:21:45 UTC
1) People should be able to vote for a council, not one member. There should be fewer spots on the council, and fewer candidates. I'd make the council 7 spots, 12 candidates, and after #7, they're alternates. If someone has to resign, dies, goes inactive, whatever, the next person steps up. Each account should vote for the 7 members they'd have on the council. That means organized blocs can "game" the system, but having 3 voices all saying the same thing doesn't actually matter with the council. The bloc is more likely to get 3 people with different strengths, as it serves the overall game, and themselves more that way.

2) www.eveonline.com should have a box for the CSM where the current council is listed, as well as their twitter accounts, blogs, whatever. I'd rather the CSM keeps most of their stuff on the forums, as it's a central place, but most seem to rather do it out of the forums, and just point people there.

3) CSM tags in the forums is a great idea. (Add the GM tags too while you're there)

4) The CSM box from the main webpage should have the platforms of the candidates that won after the election, and before the election should have all the platforms. The platforms should list the 6 other members that those players would select to join them on the council. They could also even slam the candidates they believe have been useless in the past, as it's just another part of their own platform.

5) You should be able to vote from the in game browser. Each candidate should have a link to the main CSM page with their platform. During the voting time, the link for the voting can be in the MOTD.

6) Transparency of the CSM is a big limiting factor currently. When the CSM finishes a discussion in their private forum, the thread should be moved to Jita Park after NDA clears it. It would be nice for the players to know who fought for what, without having to take their word for it.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

New Eden Trading Company.
#35 - 2012-09-11 15:37:49 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
2) www.eveonline.com should have a box for the CSM where the current council is listed, as well as their twitter accounts, blogs, whatever. I'd rather the CSM keeps most of their stuff on the forums, as it's a central place, but most seem to rather do it out of the forums, and just point people there.

3) CSM tags in the forums is a great idea. (Add the GM tags too while you're there)

4) The CSM box from the main webpage should have the platforms of the candidates that won after the election, and before the election should have all the platforms...

...5) You should be able to vote from the in game browser. Each candidate should have a link to the main CSM page with their platform. During the voting time, the link for the voting can be in the MOTD.

6) Transparency of the CSM is a big limiting factor currently. When the CSM finishes a discussion in their private forum, the thread should be moved to Jita Park after NDA clears it. It would be nice for the players to know who fought for what, without having to take their word for it.

Quoting for good ideas. Except for 5, which i quoted because you can vote from the in game browser now; however adding a link to the voting page in the MOTD of say Local would be an interesting idea.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM

C C P Alliance
#36 - 2012-09-11 15:44:07 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
As of who you are and your work on the white paper (Still a lovely document) I will not just spew figures at you.

Now the current voting system even if left as is has flaws but most of these are external to the system its self and most of the problems are player created. Yes I am probably going to tell you things you are aware of sorry.

A lot of potential voters are not voting due to the Null sec dominance or over representation they have gotten in the CSM and to be honest this is the hardest to fix. Mostly this in itself is fixable by more articles to do with the CSM just fluff filling mostly.

In general, RL interest in politics is very low and why should mister Joe Average (or his counterpart, Jane Average) want to think about it when they are entertaining themselves in EVE Online? Another point that I think we, as in players that DO vote and CCP, could work on is that while Null sec candidates are prominent, many of them have gone through much of the game content - meaning that they DO know high sec, low sec, manufacturing, running missions, etc. So, while a candidate might represent Null sec, he or she is far from being ignorant of the rest. In fact, I must state that most of the CSM people that have been elected throughout the years have had a good understanding of EVE as a whole. We have to bring this fact into the light.

Frying Doom wrote:
The CSM needs to be ingame as that is were all the potential voters are and subsequently need Lore to be there, this would also give the RP crowd a reason for voting. I have read a lot of the stuff the RP guys write and most of it is so deep it gives me a head spin.

If you still feel that the CSM does not belong in game it will hamper things but might I then suggest that an awareness campaign start soon in the login in flash screens. To familiarize people with the CSM long before the election and increase awareness.

I understand your argument, but I lean towards not changing my opinion - i.e. the CSM doesn't fit ingame. The CSM sits in the meta-game, channeling stuff into EVE and out from EVE.

Frying Doom wrote:
And of course the last part being to actually inbed the voting system links into the login like when we get a free gift so people can abstain or vote for people without leaving the game as well as giving people the ability to vote from within the game like last year with a link so they can vote for a specific candidate without having to log in to the eve secure site. (honestly did not do this bit last year so don't know if you had to log in if you used a link ingame.

The splash ads have already been utilized (three ads for every election IIRC). Having to sign in using the ingame web browser is a technical thing, as signing into the game doesn't sign you into the web section (and vice versa).

Frying Doom wrote:
So in essence pretty much what I had on the other thread

On to the voting system I would like to see

  1. 1 Vote per account
  2. Candidates may select 1 candidate to receive their votes if they are knocked out using the lowest number of votes as a starting point and working up
  3. Only the votes received by a candidate may be passed on if elimination occurs.
  4. A fee of 2 Billion is is required for registration as a candidate
  5. Voting buttons as Per Poetic Stanziel suggested "One avenue for the CSM: maybe trying to convince CCP to make voting an in-client component. Perhaps at login, an account is immediately presented with a modal window that describes the CSM and the voting process, and presents three buttons: "I wish to vote now", "I wish to abstain", "I will vote later." Until the account has voted or abstained, they are presented with this window every time they login to the client. If they wish to vote, they are presented with a list of the candidates, each with a short candidate-written summary of their platform."
  6. Advertising in splash banners should start ASAP telling people what the CSM is and what it does.
  7. Update the "What is the CSM" page.
  8. In the case of disqualification, those people who voted for the candidate are subject to there votes disappearing down a black hole.
  9. Dev blogs like the winter expansion should have by lines acknowledging the work of the CSM indicating any input given by any specific member.
  10. The CSM should continue it's wonderful transparency and communication with the playerbase.


Sorry if the post is a little disjointed it has been a long day Smile

And thank you for all the hard work you have put in over the years to the CSM.

1. Already like that
2 & 3. Things to think about
4. I've had the standard of 'if you don't have an EVE criminal record you can run' - excluding someone because he cannot gather 2 bills is, in my mind, a weaker condition rather than having to gather support from, say, 300 people.
5. Annoying people on the login screen might not be the best way to go. People should (I know this might sound naive) vote because they have an opinion, not because I tell them to.
6. Me and the CSM are working on this.
7. Now where is that email for that CSM Secretary?
8. It is currently like that.
9. This is a bit difficult because the CSM is just ONE of the channels they go to for feedback. However, when the CSM has had an impact they are more often than not mentioned in blogs or where ever talks about these matters happen (conferences, media interviews, etc.)
10. If they don't, they have to answer to me Twisted

CCP Xhagen | Associate Producer | @strangelocation

Electus Matari
#37 - 2012-09-11 15:44:49 UTC
I live in Australia, so I have to deal with STV systems. (it's not that complicated Roll)

My ideas

you can vote for 1 candidate, and your vote works as it does now
or
you can vote for up to all the candidates - your vote gets transferred up till it reaches a member that gets a seat, or runs out of preferences.

Variant: STV only functions for the bottom 7 seats - there is no seat allocation of votes. if you're in the top 7 and you get any 2nd preference vote, they all skip you and go to the next preference. ie. the top 7 are first preference only. bottom 7 use STV

A war that would’ve involved 20,000 players, 75% of nullsec space, and hundreds of supercapitals was halted not by diplomacy, but by a game mechanic so dreadful that those who have experienced it previously have no desire to do so again. - Fix POS & SOV

#38 - 2012-09-11 15:47:03 UTC
CCP Xhagen wrote:

1. Already like that
2 & 3. Things to think about
4. I've had the standard of 'if you don't have an EVE criminal record you can run' - excluding someone because he cannot gather 2 bills is, in my mind, a weaker condition rather than having to gather support from, say, 300 people.
5. Annoying people on the login screen might not be the best way to go. People should (I know this might sound naive) vote because they have an opinion, not because I tell them to.
6. Me and the CSM are working on this.
7. Now where is that email for that CSM Secretary?
8. It is currently like that.
9. This is a bit difficult because the CSM is just ONE of the channels they go to for feedback. However, when the CSM has had an impact they are more often than not mentioned in blogs or where ever talks about these matters happen (conferences, media interviews, etc.)
10. If they don't, they have to answer to me Twisted

Thank you for the feed back.Smile

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Caldari State
#39 - 2012-09-11 15:47:32 UTC
I still maintain that the problem isn't with the voting system, but with the visibility that the CSM has among the player base. Increase player awareness and even give out little gimmicky not game breaking rewards for pushing a button.

The idea for pay for splash ads is pretty neat, and should more than likely be a thing- this game already has one of the most creative groups of players in any MMO, why not tap into it- toss up that 'any submitted artwork is property of CCP' clause and get free advertising material.
C C P Alliance
#40 - 2012-09-11 15:49:25 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
CCP Xhagen wrote:

Yes, we have to come up with a more powerful 'pre-election' mechanic. Me being a reformist rather than a revolutionist I wanted to take the small step first and evaluate the outcome. I believe the outcome was positive and thus we have to take the next step.
Regarding the navel-gazing; sometimes it is necessary to take a look at the foundation that is being worked from in order to move on. I think that making sure the CSM-system itself is working in a satisfactory manner is healthy for its long term effectiveness.

What constraints are we operating under when it comes to CCP coding? If a primary system/ranked preference vote/etc were proposed could they be implemented?

Yes they could.

I've also been thinking about the following scenario:
Hold regular elections for CSM8, using current voting mechanics.
Make that dictate the results.
On the side run an experiment on a new voting system and see the results from that using the voting data from CSM8 election.
Investigate and spit-shine and use new voting system for CSM9 if viable.

Just a thought in terms of a possible implementation strategy.

CCP Xhagen | Associate Producer | @strangelocation

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