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[Winter] Attack Cruisers

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C C P Alliance
#1 Posted: 2012.09.18 11:46  |  Edited by: CCP Ytterbium
:Updated most recently on October 19th with changes posted here:

Ok now on to the more anticipated cruisers in this rebalance pass. These are the faster and lighter of the fighting cruisers. They're mostly made from the former tier II cruisers, with the exception of the Thorax.

In some ways the gap between Attack and Combat cruisers mirror the gap in the frigate lines, although for cruisers we're not dividing the lines quite so sharply. These ships do have less EHP than the Combat cruisers that will be unveiled next, but you can still buffer tank them decently if you downgrade guns.

Alongside the announcement of these ships, we're also proposing some adjustment to the fitting requirements of certain medium sized turrets which will help us keep the fittings of several ships within better ranges as we go forward:
-Drop the powergrid usage of Focused Medium Pulse lasers by 5%
-Drop the powergrid usage of Heavy Pulse lasers by 10%
-Drop the powergrid usage of all cruiser sized beam lasers by 10%
-Drop the powergrid usage of all cruiser sized artillery by 10%


There will also be associated Hurricane changes connected to the Arty PG change as well as significant missile changes that will affect the Caracal (and to a lesser extent the Stabber). Those can be found in this thread.

Details of the new gun fittings:
meta Name power cpu
0 Focused Medium Pulse Laser I 115 28
1 Focused Afocal Pulse Maser I 115 25
2 Focused Modal Pulse Laser I 115 23
3 Focused Anode Pulse Particle Stream I 115 26
4 Focused Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I 115 22
5 Focused Medium Pulse Laser II 127 29
8 Ammatar Navy Focused Medium Pulse Laser 127 22
8 Dark Blood Focused Medium Pulse Laser 127 22
8 Imperial Navy Focused Medium Pulse Laser 127 22
8 True Sansha Focused Medium Pulse Laser 127 22
0 Heavy Pulse Laser I 190 33
1 Heavy Afocal Pulse Maser I 190 29
2 Heavy Modal Pulse Laser I 190 28
3 Heavy Anode Pulse Particle Stream I 190 31
4 Heavy Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I 190 26
5 Heavy Pulse Laser II 209 35
6 Joust' Heavy Pulse Laser I 171 26
8 Ammatar Navy Heavy Pulse Laser 209 26
8 Dark Blood Heavy Pulse Laser 209 26
8 Imperial Navy Heavy Pulse Laser 209 26
8 True Sansha Heavy Pulse Laser 209 26
0 Quad Light Beam Laser I 81 25
1 Quad Afocal Light Maser I 81 22
2 Quad Modal Light Laser I 81 21
3 Quad Anode Light Particle Stream I 81 23
4 Quad Modulated Light Energy Beam I 81 20
5 Quad Light Beam Laser II 90 26
8 Ammatar Navy Quad Light Beam Laser 90 20
8 Dark Blood Quad Light Beam Laser 90 20
8 Imperial Navy Quad Light Beam Laser 90 20
8 True Sansha Quad Light Beam Laser 90 20
0 Focused Medium Beam Laser I 135 30
1 Focused Afocal Medium Maser I 135 27
2 Focused Modal Medium Laser I 135 25
3 Focused Anode Medium Particle Stream I 135 28
4 Focused Modulated Medium Energy Beam I 135 24
5 Focused Medium Beam Laser II 149 32
6 Crossbow' Focused Medium Beam Laser I 122 24
8 Ammatar Navy Focused Medium Beam Laser 149 24
8 Dark Blood Focused Medium Beam Laser 149 24
8 Imperial Navy Focused Medium Beam Laser 149 24
8 True Sansha Focused Medium Beam Laser 149 24
0 Heavy Beam Laser I 225 35
1 Heavy Afocal Maser I 225 31
2 Heavy Modal Laser I 225 29
3 Heavy Anode Particle Stream I 225 33
4 Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I 225 28
5 Heavy Beam Laser II 248 37
6 Arquebus' Heavy Beam Laser I 203 28
8 Ammatar Navy Heavy Beam Laser 248 28
8 Dark Blood Heavy Beam Laser 248 28
8 Imperial Navy Heavy Beam Laser 248 28
8 True Sansha Heavy Beam Laser 248 28
0 650mm Artillery Cannon I 180 27
1 650mm Medium Carbine Howitzer I 180 21
2 650mm Medium Gallium Cannon 180 25
3 650mm Medium Prototype Siege Cannon 180 22
4 650mm Medium 'Scout' Artillery I 180 24
5 650mm Artillery Cannon II 198 28
6 650mm Medium 'Jolt' Artillery I 162 23
8 Domination 650mm Artillery 180 24
8 Republic Fleet 650mm Artillery 180 24
0 720mm Artillery Cannon I 225 30
1 720mm Carbine Howitzer I 225 24
2 720mm Gallium Cannon 225 28
3 720mm Prototype Siege Cannon 225 25
4 720mm 'Scout' Artillery I 225 27
5 720mm Artillery Cannon II 248 32
6 720mm Medium 'Jolt' Artillery I 203 26
8 Domination 720mm Artillery 225 27
8 Republic Fleet 720mm Artillery 225 27

Now onto the ships themselves:

Omen:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret capacitor use
5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret rate of fire

Slot layout: 5 H, 3 M, 6 L (+1), 5 turrets
Fittings: 925 PWG (+195), 315 CPU (+65)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(+27) / 1700(+137) / 1500(-63)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1475(+225) / 526s(+79.75s) / 2.8
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 235(+54) / 0.51(-0.05) / 11650000 / 5.6s (-0.5)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 40(+30) / 40(+30)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km(+10) / 300(+7) / 6(-1)
Sensor strength: 15 Radar (+2)
Signature radius: 115 (-10)
Cargo capacity: 400(-50)


Caracal:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus Rapid Light, Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Launcher rate of fire
10% bonus to Light, Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Velocity

Slot layout: 5 H, 5 M, 4 L (+2), 2 turrets, 5 launchers
Fittings: 630 PWG (+100), 430 CPU (+80)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1700(+137) / 1200(+145) / 1400(+71)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1250(+187.5) / 445s(+63.75s) / 2.8 (+0.02)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 230(+52) / 0.46 (+0.035) / 11910000 (-1,000,000) / 5.1s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10 / 10
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 57.5km / 270(+28) / 6
Sensor strength: 16 Gravimetric (+1)
Signature radius: 125 (-20)
Cargo capacity: 450


Thorax:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret tracking speed

Slot layout: 5 H, 4 M (+1), 5 L, 5 turrets
Fittings: 820 PWG, 330 CPU (+30)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(-324) / 1600(-41) / 1600(+75)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1450(+75) / 490s(+25.25s) / 2.8
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240(+60) / 0.49(-0.0658) / 11280000 / 5.2s (-0.7)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 52.5km(-2.5) / 280(+21) / 6
Sensor strength: 15 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 120(-20)
Cargo capacity: 465(+200)


Stabber:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret firing speed
7.5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff

Slot layout: 6 H, 4 M (+1), 4 L (+1), 4 Turrets, 2 Launchers
Fittings: 715 PWG (+15), 340 CPU (+40)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1500(+15) / 1400(+150) / 1300(+11)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1200(+137.5) / 427.5s(+46.25s) / 2.8(+0.01)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 290(+59) / 0.5(+0.02) / 11400000 / 5.3s (+0.2)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 47.5km(+7.5) / 320(+15) / 5
Sensor strength: 13 Ladar (+3)
Signature radius: 100 (-5)
Cargo capacity: 420
#2 Posted: 2012.09.18 11:50  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
First

Edit: Looks good, but I am really gonna miss the +5% microwarpdrive capacitor bonus on the thorax Sad
  - 
Important Internet Spaceship League
#3 Posted: 2012.09.18 12:00  |  Edited by: Pinky Denmark
I love you!! Will look into those stats immediately...

Here we go:

Overall: All depending on how battlecruisers will be adjusted these ships will likely still be manhandled by battlecruisers when engaging! I would have hoped the Thorax to minimum maintain the hitpoints and have the other cruisers buffed to at least the tier 3 level of hitpoints which still isn't alot against battlecruisers.

Omen: Looks very interesting with 40m3 drones. I'll love to give it a try...

Caracal: PG Boost is nice and necesary. However plz consider at least 3 small drones (it will help a lot)

Thorax: Nice choice for attack cruiser. I would have kept 3 medslots and give it a utility hi-slot for a nosferatu (almost same fitting as cap booster) helping it keep guns and tackle running in close combat, but not helping when speeding around. 4 medslots might also make it better for fast shield gank than the hopefully intended armor version though ofcourse both options should be available...

Stabber: Slot layout looks superb for a shield cruiser with armor versatility.
I am however surprised to see only 4 guns while it also only have 1 light drone and having the lowest sensor strength even with the fantastic speed it has? For an attack cruiser 4 autocannons and a light drone is a bit mehh even if 2 launchers are fit in addition. I would remove a hi-slot and give it a relevant drone bay of at least 40m3.

Pinky Denmark
Minmatar Republic
#4 Posted: 2012.09.18 12:01
Looks good. I especially like the falloff bonus on the Stabber, going to be flying that one for sure.

Reduced fittings and increased powergrid on the Omen will hopefully also turn it into an actual usable ship, looking forward to trying that out.
C C P Alliance
#5 Posted: 2012.09.18 12:02
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
First

Edit: Looks good, but I am really gonna miss the +5% microwarpdrive capacitor bonus on the thorax Sad


To partially compensate we upped the base cap a bit and it can use a small cap booster in the new mid. If those prove to not be enough we will be re-evaluating again before release.
Pasta Syndicate
#6 Posted: 2012.09.18 12:04
Omen looks juicy Big smile
Drunk 'n' Disorderly
#7 Posted: 2012.09.18 12:06
Another kiting boost at the expense of blaster ships.

Oh dear.
Shadow Cartel
#8 Posted: 2012.09.18 12:08
I already only ever see shield null thoraxes. I think after this it's going to get to the point where people ask if I'm seriously fitting an armour tank to my thorax, like it's weird or something.
Amarr Empire
#9 Posted: 2012.09.18 12:12  |  Edited by: Selaya Ataru
The Heavy Pulse Laser buff is great.
The ships look good from what I can tell (not much), but I'm not sure if 4 lows for the Caracal arent a bit too much.
I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
#10 Posted: 2012.09.18 12:13
CCP Fozzie wrote:

-Drop the powergrid usage of Focused Medium Pulse lasers by 5%
-Drop the powergrid usage of Heavy Pulse lasers by 10%
-Drop the powergrid usage of all cruiser sized beam lasers by 10%
-Drop the powergrid usage of all cruiser sized artillery by 10%



A million times yes. <3
#11 Posted: 2012.09.18 12:13
These changes look good. Especially the massive boost to the fitting power of the Omen was very needed.

I never liked the Stabber as her only advantage over the Rupture for kiting was pure speed. Now with two additional slots and that falloff bonus it actually provides something the Rupture doesn't on the T1 Cruiser level (assuming the still to be announced Rupture changes don't overshadow the Stabber changes of course).

I'm indifferent about the medium artillery changes, but the medium laser changes are great.

Caracal got a massive boost to potential damage and speed with those two extra low slots. And with the kinetic bonus gone that damage can be any damage type without penalty.

Torax looks good too, even though i don't have to say much about it.
Caldari State
#12 Posted: 2012.09.18 12:13
I don't suppose we're going to see some improvements to hybrids in this expansion..?

Otherwise, it all looks pretty good. That Omen looks a hell of a lot more usable now Big smile
X
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#13 Posted: 2012.09.18 12:14
Caracal getting +2 lows and CPU to let it fit more BCS. This is truly awesome! It's damage has always been rather anemic. And changing the damage bonus from kinetic to RoF will make it one of if not the most feared frigate killers in the game. It will also allow it to stand toe-to-toe with any other T1 cruiser.

As a Caldari missile slinger, I take my hat off to you, sir.
Coming soon...
Caldari State
#14 Posted: 2012.09.18 12:18
TrouserDeagle wrote:
I already only ever see shield null thoraxes. I think after this it's going to get to the point where people ask if I'm seriously fitting an armour tank to my thorax, like it's weird or something.

It lost 324 shield hp to compensate for the new mid slot. Not that clearly cut.
Rooks and Kings
#15 Posted: 2012.09.18 12:24
General question: have you considered the effects those buffs will have on battlecruisers, specifcly the Cane? Haven't really looked into it, but i'm not sure the cane needs another indirect buff. Granted, tier 2 bcs are going to get reviewed anyway, but still, could make the arty cane even stronger than it is today.
C C P Alliance
#16 Posted: 2012.09.18 12:25
Mesh Marillion wrote:
General question: have you considered the effects those buffs will have on battlecruisers, specifcly the Cane? Haven't really looked into it, but i'm not sure the cane needs another indirect buff. Granted, tier 2 bcs are going to get reviewed anyway, but still, could make the arty cane even stronger than it is today.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6MlHxAzLXA
#17 Posted: 2012.09.18 12:27  |  Edited by: Wivabel
Not happy with the thorax. With an 800 plate I can fit only IONs with a 1600 plate I cant even fit electrons without fitting mods. looks like you will not have tank or gank on this ship at the moment.

Ok I take it back it seems to fit out well on the shield side are you guys leaning towards a shield setup because that is what it looks like.

Stabber looks awesome though it is soo soo much faster than the other three may be kinda imbalanced.
I am not sure if I am going to log in anymore.......
#18 Posted: 2012.09.18 12:29
On the First page! Looks good!
Exploration is Random. Random is Random... or is it?! http://docs.python.org/2/library/random.html
Liandri Covenant
#19 Posted: 2012.09.18 12:30
Would it be possible to exchange the caracal's missile velocity bonus for one of explosion velocity to better fit into the idea of attack cruisers being close range?
Brave Collective
#20 Posted: 2012.09.18 12:31
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Mesh Marillion wrote:
General question: have you considered the effects those buffs will have on battlecruisers, specifcly the Cane? Haven't really looked into it, but i'm not sure the cane needs another indirect buff. Granted, tier 2 bcs are going to get reviewed anyway, but still, could make the arty cane even stronger than it is today.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6MlHxAzLXA



Is this a foreshadowing of what people will be able to do with Arty Canes, what you're going to do to nerf Arty Canes, or both?
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