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Tips required for a complete noob (introduction to PvP)

Author
Gallente Federation
#1 Posted: 2012.10.15 16:51
Hi,
I know there are lots of guides out there but most of them are too old ( I don't know how reliable they are).
So I am currently training for a stealth bomber (amarr) but since I have no idea about pvp dynamics, I want to use some cheap ship I can easily replace ( I have around 500 mil) while I learn how to pvp. (I will be mostly solo/duo) I already have skills for lasers and missiles so they would be preferred.
Any tips/link to up-to-date guides/ loadouts are welcome.
Thank you.
Disturbed Acquaintance
#2 Posted: 2012.10.15 17:12
battleclinic has the most awesomest pvp experts ever
they will scrutinise any fit with far more knowledge than any mere eftwarrior scrub.

kidding aside.
check the F&I thread regarding the winter expansion changes, specifically the combat, attack and ewar hulls

then check battleclinic to see if there are any decent or workable fits there (remember the fits will be based on the old unchanged data) for the ships you are specifically interested in.


welcome to eve doyourresearch online
#3 Posted: 2012.10.15 17:14  |  Edited by: ISD Athechu
Hello Eladox,

The Punisher is a good cheap ship that you can learn PVP with. My best advice is to use your corporation to help teach you PVP combat. Find someone who has lots of experience with it as they can sometimes teach you tricks that guides cannot teach you.
ISD Athechu
Commander
ISD STAR (Support Training and Resources)
EVE New Citizens Q&A Resources
#4 Posted: 2012.10.15 17:22  |  Edited by: J'Poll
You can read 20 books about how to drive a car, but you can only learn it by taking driving lessons and drive yourself.

Same with PvP, guides are nice to get to know stuff. But you will only learn by doing it, find someone in your corp that is good at PvP and do it with him, ask him for advice and tips. Join fleets with a cheap frigate and listen and move with the fleet and try to think by yourself why they do things the way they do and why the FC makes certain desisions.

Also, stealth bombers are very very fun ships to fly and are great in PvP. But they are somewhat limited on what they can do, I really like their specialty but it isn't very wide range.
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Ushra'Khan
#5 Posted: 2012.10.15 17:32
I know how you feel OP. PVP is FULL of little tricks. We all use the same tools but every pilot has a little list of tricks up their sleeve. The problem is that no one is willing to share these maneuvers in public. JPoll is right, ask your corp mates. They will happily fill you in on methods for manual flight and hoe to optimize tracking and choose targets because they fly with you. Get out there in a group.
#6 Posted: 2012.10.15 17:37
Your corp mates should be already tossing you tips and tricks.. if not.. find new corp mates.

That aside, very VERY few pilots are going to show up here, in a publicly searchable place, and start tossing out the secrets that keep them alive.

If you will toss me an eve-mail or a convo.. we can talk in depth about these kinds of things... but here.. no way.
Gallente Federation
#7 Posted: 2012.10.15 17:44
Thanks for the replies people.

But i am not looking for a guide that "teach" me how to pvp, i just need to start somewhere, find a cheap and ok ship and learn it by dying over and over =).
I'll check punisher and battleclinic, thank you.
Gallente Federation
#8 Posted: 2012.10.15 18:28
Tormentors and Executioners have also been getting some love, with most of what I'm seeing being MSE-fit kiting setups with Medium Pulses. Something like that may work for you if you want to practice range dictation in small engagements. As far as missiles go, I'm afraid I can't offer anything.

If you haven't already, you may want to seriously pound the hell out of your Navigation skills as I hear that SBs are the frigate equivalent of trying to ride steeplechase on a drunken elephant seal.
Ushra'Khan
#9 Posted: 2012.10.15 21:19
Check this blog out for some great tips on basic frigate flight and fitting for pvp.
#10 Posted: 2012.10.15 21:52
Come to Amarr. We'll help you die in the name of knowledge.
There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
Caldari State
#11 Posted: 2012.10.15 21:55
Best tip is one already stated above: talk to your corp mates. Better still, practice with them. Discover at what range your ship REALLY performs the best, and with what ammo. Practice starting at range and closing using manual flying -- work the approach angles so that you slide smoothly into the optimal orbit without overshooting.

The point is not to help you become the Frigate Dunken Master, but to lay a foundation and make you more comfortable managing the things you will be doing throughout your PvP career. Most Eve PvP is not pilots meeting in honorable 1v1 guantlet slapping duels in space, it's a chaotic mashup in which everyone is looking for any possible advanatge they can find, trying to do the best they can and make fewer mistakes than their opponents.

So the secret, really, is DO IT. Don't worry about skills and ships, just grab whatever you can afford to fly, join a PvP corporation that is willing to help you along, and have some fun.

Good Luck
#12 Posted: 2012.10.16 22:18
If you really have 500 mil just fit frig after frig and learn from your mistakes. Learning the theory is no good really, you just end up confused or scared.
#13 Posted: 2012.10.17 03:34  |  Edited by: Dirty Wizard
Believe it or not, we're entering a golden age of PvP. For a very long time there were only a handful of ships that were PvP worthy while all the rest were garbage. We would fly this ship because of its versatility. We wouldn't fly that ship because of how horrible it is to fit properly, its ultra low DPS, its inability to ewar/tank/go fast, or for whatever reason.

With CCPs recent efforts in rebalancing all ships, they've effectively made it so all PvP ships are viable contenders instead of a small handful.

A common recipe for a solo pilot looking for PvP, you'll need four things: Gank, Tank, Speed, and Ewar.

Gank means you have the weaponry to dish out the pain. Typically that means short range and high DPS guns. Hybrid blasters, projectile auto cannons, and laser pulse weapons. Having a high DPS means your enemy will die quickly. The faster he dies, the less retaliation he can inflict back on you.

Tank means you need your ship to be stronger than a wet paper bag. There's multiple ways to tank your ship - Shield or armor tanking are the most common (never both on the same ship). Whichever you pick is entirely dependent on your ship fitting layout. Shield tanking relies on mid slots whereas armor tanking relies on low slots. From there you can decide on if you want to tank via high resistances to damage, a high amount of hit points, or some combination of the two.

Then it's active or passive tanking. Active tanking means you have a module that actively repairs either your shields or armor and it eats a portion of your capacitor. Passive tanking means you just sit there and absorb the damage, then go off to repair at your earliest convenience. Passive tanking is most common with shields because shields automatically regenerate over time.

Speed is important as well, most especially for smaller ships. Faster speed means your enemies weapons will have a harder time hitting you, or won't be able to hit you at all. Speed tanking is an effective form of tanking and in conjunction with shield or armor tanking, it's super effective.

The idea is to keep moving. A stationary PvP target is a dead target as stationary targets take almost 100% of the damage inflicted on them. Battleship size weapons can easily tear apart a small ship if the small ship isn't moving. However if that little ship is moving swiftly, those large size weapons will be almost useless. In essence, speed is your friend.

Ewar is also important. While there are many forms of ewar, the most common ones used are warp disruptors/scramblers, stasis webbifiers, and energy neutralizers (yes I know it's not technically ewar, but I personally consider it to be). Warp disruptors/scramblers keep your enemy from running away. Webs slow them down which makes it easier for your weapons to do what they do best. And energy neuts drain your enemies capacitor which denies him the ability to use any modules or weapons that require capacitor.


Other than all that, PvP really comes down to practice. As others have already stated, you'll never master riding a bike by reading manuals all day. You're going to have to jump right into it. Sure you're going to wobble and fall off your bike a few times, but each failure is a learning opportunity. It's recommended that you start using frigates because they're cheap to buy, easy to fit, and don't require a lot of skills.

I personally went through several dozen frigates experimenting with what works and what doesn't. Each time I got a little better at it. Each time I learned what type of ships a frigate can take on and which type to avoid confronting. My skillpoints are reaching 70 million these days, but my all time favorite ships to fly are the tech 2 assault ship frigates. I'm a fan of small fast ships and they fit the bill nicely for me.
(signature removed due to stupid)
#14 Posted: 2012.10.17 09:57  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Dirty Wizard wrote:
...INFO.....



Aside from that, in the end it does not matter how much you practice. You either can shoot down other ships or you can't. That is why it is possible for a 1 month old Character to shoot down a 2006 player.

SP (Skill Points) does not translate to PS (Player Skill).
"I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. He flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. His hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. It was truly majestic. And while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off. Because I am like that." - NEONOVUS
#15 Posted: 2012.10.17 10:40  |  Edited by: Keno Skir
ISD Athechu wrote:
Hello Eladox,

The Punisher is a good cheap ship that you can learn PVP with. My best advice is to use your corporation to help teach you PVP combat. Find someone who has lots of experience with it as they can sometimes teach you tricks that guides cannot teach you.


Punisher is PANTS for solo pvp due to having only 2 midslots. Midslots in solo pvp are generally fit with a propulsion mod (afterburner or mwd), a web and a warp scrambler. Punisher having only 2 midslots means it cannot do scram, web and ab, leaving it lacking in a lot fo situations.

Brunik Rokbyter wrote:
Your corp mates should be already tossing you tips and tricks.. if not.. find new corp mates.

That aside, very VERY few pilots are going to show up here, in a publicly searchable place, and start tossing out the secrets that keep them alive.

If you will toss me an eve-mail or a convo.. we can talk in depth about these kinds of things... but here.. no way.


Mate, your PVP prowess is not a lucky charm everyone's after. Ignore this bloke, there a plenty of REAL PVPer's who are happy to help others with tactics, tips and training. If someone says what Brunik says, you know he'll be an easy target because he has no actual skills or tips for anyone :) Don't believe the hype, anyone worth listening to will take the time to help a new player enjoy what they enjoy for the good of the game.

If someone is afraid to discuss it on the forums, it's likely bullcrap dressed up as a pro.
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Agony Empire
#16 Posted: 2012.10.18 10:07
Amarr Empire
#17 Posted: 2012.10.18 16:28
Just from my personal past experience, the Arbitrator (despite being a Star Trek ripoff), makes a great solo PvP boat. It is odd for Amarr, as most of not all of its damage comes from drones, but it lets you use EWAR as your main weapons and then let the drones finish them off. Love flying it.
Minmatar Republic
#18 Posted: 2012.10.18 17:12
I would start flying with people in something really cheap (frigate or destroyer). There are dozens of ways you can die very fast if you don't know what you're doing, you can get a head start on figuring them out in something you can already fly and don't care about losing.
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