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Star Jump Drive

Author
#1 - 2012-10-28 00:38:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Val'Dore
I've suggested this before and decided to revisit the idea. I've long been a fan of the idea of alternative methods of getting around the galaxy. In the beginning there was one way to move a ship between systems: Stargates. Now there are a few: Stargates, Wormholes, Jump Drives, and Jump Bridges.

I envisioned several myself, one of which I called Transwarp, but another is the Star Jump Drive which is an offshoot of the current Jump Drive mechanics.

The Star Jump Drive is a way for common sub capital ships to move about the galaxy without being relegated to Stargates. They are affected by the Jump Drive skills.

It consists of 3 modular systems:

Navigation Array (High Slot)
Jump Fuel Injector (Mid Slot)
Jump Drive Core (Low Slot)

You need all 3 installed on the ship to activate the system, they must all be matching sizes. The Navigation Array comes in three sizes (MN scale):

Small Navigation Array (1 MN): 6 ly range
Medium Navigation Array (10 MN): 9 ly range
Large Navigation Array (100 MN): 12 ly range

The Jump Fuel Injector is the active module for the system. My idea calls for using an existing fuel: Cap Booster Charges. The JFI uses as many or as few of the Charges as is needed for that particular Jump. A formula that involves the mass of the ship and the distance of the jump is used to determine the Charge consumption. It is possible that a ship won't be able to jump to its maximum range due to the JFI not being able to hold enough Charges for the mass. No Capital ships will be able to use the SJD effectively.

A ship powering up the SJD is motionless unless the jump is aborted, the ship's capacitor is drained to 0 until the jump is complete, and the fuel is consumed upon activation of the SJD, not when the actual jump occurs. All Star Jumps have a 90 second lock on (warm up) timer as opposed to an activation delay.

The Jump Fuel Injectors are roughly the equivalent capacity and fittings of the Cap Injectors we already use.

The Jump Drive Cores are essentially just a low slot module that does nothing but take up a low slot and fittings, determine the mass coefficient able to be moved.

The meat and potatoes of the SJD is the ability to forego the Cynosaural Field entirely. The SJD jumps directly to the Sun of the target system. This makes hotdropping with SJDs pointless, but make them a good strategic travel system for non capital fleets. Obviously this would change a great many dynamics in EvE, chief among them is the SJD being permitted in every EvE system (Jovians still block the lock).

Cyno jammers work on the SJD and all current tackle methods against jump drives work on SJDs.

Some ships will fit this system easier than others, and some ships will no doubt become renowned for using this system. And still others won't be able to use it at all. SJDs are not compatible with Cynos at all. You still need the Jump Bridge to move a fleet into a hotdrop.

I predict Cap Booster 25s getting real popular if this idea makes it in.

Val'Dore wrote:
Fittings basic overview:

1 MN Set: 14 PG and 55 CPU

Nav Array: 4 PG and 30 CPU
Fuel Injector: 5 PG and 15 CPU
Drive Core: 5 PG and 10 CPU

10 MN Set: 260 PG and 85 CPU

Nav Array: 80 PG and 40 CPU
Fuel Injector: 150 PG and 25 CPU
Drive Core: 30 PG and 20 CPU

100 MN Set: 2570 PG and 120 CPU

Nav Array: 320 PG and 50 CPU
Fuel Injector: 1750 PG and 40 CPU
Drive Core: 500 PG and 30 CPU

These are preliminary numbers of course. I used existing module stats to come up with them.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2012-10-28 00:50:44 UTC
Jumping max expanded itty Vs from Jita to anywhere in the entire eve cluster in under ten minutes, with absolutely zero risk? I can't see how this could ever do any damage to industry or markets!

Roll
#3 - 2012-10-28 02:24:16 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Jumping max expanded itty Vs from Jita to anywhere in the entire eve cluster in under ten minutes, with absolutely zero risk? I can't see how this could ever do any damage to industry or markets!

Roll


Well, other than the not max expanded part? Oh and the part where 10 MN SJD won't even fit? Oh yeah, and the 1 MN probably won't even be able to go far enough to jump to the nearest system on any industrial?

Transport ships can probably handle the SJD, but then, they are Transport Ships after all. And would still lose tank, and cargo capacity.

Never mind the fuel aspect and the paradigm shifts to Star Camping :p

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

#4 - 2012-10-28 15:22:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Seranova Farreach
Danika Princip wrote:
Jumping max expanded itty Vs from Jita to anywhere in the entire eve cluster in under ten minutes, with absolutely zero risk? I can't see how this could ever do any damage to industry or markets!

Roll


remove gate form gate camp and replace with Sun/star to make star camp :P cause typically when one warps to a star you always end up at the same point. so tis far from safe.






PS. what ever happened to Micro jump drives CCP announces for BSs ages ago?

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]

Pandemic Horde
#5 - 2012-10-28 15:35:51 UTC
I like this idea in fact ! Plus there is no gate gun at stars !

That should be balanced properly though.

I may add something though : use three size of jump drive cores to affect jump range, and three size of jump fuel injectors with different capacities !
#6 - 2012-10-28 15:35:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Green
Seranova Farreach wrote:


PS. what ever happened to Micro jump drives CCP announces for BSs ages ago?


They are out on Duality right now

link

video

wumbo

#7 - 2012-10-28 16:46:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Val'Dore
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
I like this idea in fact ! Plus there is no gate gun at stars !

That should be balanced properly though.

I may add something though : use three size of jump drive cores to affect jump range, and three size of jump fuel injectors with different capacities !


All 3 module sets are different sizes. I should have said more about the Cores though, you need larger Cores to handle the mass in larger ships. The end result is that BSes use the '100 MN' Set, Cruisers and BCs use the '10 MN' Set, and Frigs and Dessies use the '1 MN' Set. Note that I'm using the MN scale to differentiate between them, not necessarily to actually describe them.

So to suffice:

Navigation Arrays determine jump range.

Fuel Injectors determine fuel capacity.

Cores determine how much mass can be moved.

So a BS can't cheat and use the smaller sets to move, even for shorter jumps.

Upsize classes (DD and BC) will have inherently shorter ranges and more fuel usages than the FF and CAs do. The same would be said about any future upsize class to the BS.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

#8 - 2012-10-31 02:13:04 UTC
There has to be more people with opinions about this.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

The Bastard Cartel
#9 - 2012-10-31 04:29:19 UTC
Sub caps should not have jump drives. It ruins my capital immersion.

/thread.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-10-31 07:03:09 UTC
a long long time ago there was a nice idea, where they would remove stargates and every ship would have a small jump drive.

in fact I think it also called for everything to be in the same session, with scanning and stuff to find people that were anywhere.. it could have been really cool, or completely broke eve.
Ultimately I doubt it would ever happen, but fun the think about.
#11 - 2012-10-31 10:49:48 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
Sub caps should not have jump drives. It ruins my capital immersion.

/thread.



How? From the perspective of a current capital ship pilot, you wouldn't even know the SJD existed. It changes nothing about your 'immersion'. And don't bother mentioning your cyno alt(s), they aren't part of your capital ship 'immersion' either.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-10-31 11:02:12 UTC
usrevenge wrote:
a long long time ago there was a nice idea, where they would remove stargates and every ship would have a small jump drive.

in fact I think it also called for everything to be in the same session, with scanning and stuff to find people that were anywhere.. it could have been really cool, or completely broke eve.
Ultimately I doubt it would ever happen, but fun the think about.


I don't think everyone envisaged everything in the same session, that would be the most ludicrous suggestion ever made.

The OPs suggestion is an interesting play on it, except he's made it way over powered.

Suggests the OP looks at an Itty 5, and redisgns the idea so that it can't fit any cargo expansion, after fitting the mods and has a much lower max range. So basically 2 rigs and 5 low slot modules to get to 2ly or something...
#13 - 2012-10-31 11:27:34 UTC
Industrial ships don't have the fittings to fit the SJD in the first place. So why are you worried about it? Maybe I should make some example fitting posts.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-10-31 13:44:54 UTC
I think jove Ships can jump to bookmarks....
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-10-31 17:19:18 UTC
Val'Dore wrote:
Industrial ships don't have the fittings to fit the SJD in the first place. So why are you worried about it? Maybe I should make some example fitting posts.


You haven't given any fitting requirements, so probably that would help.

You really need to make the *cost* of doing this high enough to be commensurate with the time saved in travel (say you were running L4's instead of gate hopping).

#16 - 2012-10-31 17:47:40 UTC
betoli wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
Industrial ships don't have the fittings to fit the SJD in the first place. So why are you worried about it? Maybe I should make some example fitting posts.


You haven't given any fitting requirements, so probably that would help.


I'll be doing that after work.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

#17 - 2012-11-01 01:09:33 UTC
Fittings basic overview:

1 MN Set: 14 PG and 55 CPU

Nav Array: 4 PG and 30 CPU
Fuel Injector: 5 PG and 15 CPU
Drive Core: 5 PG and 10 CPU

10 MN Set: 260 PG and 85 CPU

Nav Array: 80 PG and 40 CPU
Fuel Injector: 150 PG and 25 CPU
Drive Core: 30 PG and 20 CPU

100 MN Set: 2570 PG and 120 CPU

Nav Array: 320 PG and 50 CPU
Fuel Injector: 1750 PG and 40 CPU
Drive Core: 500 PG and 30 CPU

These are preliminary numbers of course. I used existing module stats to come up with them.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

The Bastard Cartel
#18 - 2012-11-01 04:22:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
Val'Dore wrote:
Asuka Solo wrote:
Sub caps should not have jump drives. It ruins my capital immersion.

/thread.



How? From the perspective of a current capital ship pilot, you wouldn't even know the SJD existed. It changes nothing about your 'immersion'. And don't bother mentioning your cyno alt(s), they aren't part of your capital ship 'immersion' either.


Ahuh.

Your giving sub capitals (frigates even) the means to jump further than capitals... using their own transportation means.... without cynos.

Explain to me how that is:

1) Balanced, both in terms of capability and fuel consumption given that this new system of yours uses cap charges and not ice fuels....

2) A good idea considering that it will allow the mass transit of blobs of t3s, logis and battleships moving from Delve to Branch in 15 minutes....

3) If sub capitals can jump to suns without cynos... why should capitals not be able to do this and more with an actual jump drive and not have to rely on cynos at all for things like hotdropping onto an enemy fleet.

Your idea is basically devaluing the jump drive mechanic and allowing lesser ships to do more and go further without it. This ruins capital ships.

Rifters Online with jumpdrives anyone?

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

#19 - 2012-11-01 10:41:39 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
Your giving sub capitals (frigates even) the means to jump further than capitals... using their own transportation means.... without cynos.


All subject to tweaking, like anything else.

Quote:
1) Balanced, both in terms of capability and fuel consumption given that this new system of yours uses cap charges and not ice fuels....


I stayed away from Ice based fuels because we don't need more reasons to bot mine Ice. Not to mention the SJD is not racial. And I wanted to impact the Capital Metagame as little as possible.

Quote:
2) A good idea considering that it will allow the mass transit of blobs of t3s, logis and battleships moving from Delve to Branch in 15 minutes....


Well, that is definitely a side effect, but you have to remember almost every ship will be gimping its fit to fit an SJD, not to mention the fuel logistics. Hell, this might be a buff to Marauders more than anything. Their cargo space alone will make them good SJD candidates. Starjumping has the downside of being predictable, not to mention easier to defend against. Traditional Cynoing is still easier to work with in tactical scenarios.

Quote:
3) If sub capitals can jump to suns without cynos... why should capitals not be able to do this and more with an actual jump drive and not have to rely on cynos at all for things like hotdropping onto an enemy fleet.


That's easy, Cynos exist for one reason only: Capitals are supposed to be a pita to use solo. Subcaps aren't. If any ship should be solo and jump capable, it is a sub cap.
;
Quote:
Your idea is basically devaluing the jump drive mechanic and allowing lesser ships to do more and go further without it. This ruins capital ships.

Rifters Online with jumpdrives anyone?


It does nothing to devalue capital ships, unless you consider no longer needing Titans to ferry subcaps around everywhere ruining capital ships. Titans should have better things to do anyway.

Only if you want to lose a lot of Rifters. And would that be so bad? No ship fitting the SJD (except maybe a BS, and BS need a boost anyway) will perform well in pvp or even pve. They sacrifice, damage, tank, and/or utility to fit this 3 module system.

If Jumping was to completely replace stargates (it won't), I wouldn't mind at all.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#20 - 2012-11-05 11:33:10 UTC
Almost-unscoutable instant teleportation is a fundamentally bad idea. It's entirely right that travelling should take a long time. You should be looking at reducing the ease of use of jump mechanics, not further expanding them to subcapitals.
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