Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Separate the four empires with low security space.

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Brute Force Solutions
#1 - 2012-11-20 06:34:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted

Post in the thread if you like this idea help! A simple "I like this idea!" would be nice!


So moving stuff from place to place in eve isn't really all that dangerous, difficult, interesting, or that profitable most of the time. Piracy isn't all that profitable either. So why not add more lowsec between the 4 empires. By more I mean, it would be utterly impossible to get from gallente space to caldari space without crossing lowsec at some point.

When doing this I wouldn't want the routes to be setup where there are only 1-2 chokepoints you have to cross, I would also prescribe the addition of new regions.

This would buff trading by making it harder, weird i know but hear me out. The less freighters going back and forth from jita to dodixie moving ice, the more expensive ice is in the area's where it can't be mined. Faction modules become items that must be smuggled across dangerous open waters. Pirates actively hunt badgers full of ore, trading corporations setup large fleets to escort freighters, etc. When I watch TV and see pirates they are plundering trade routes and making commerce harder, eve pirates don't really affect commerce at all.

Imagine all the fun that can be had when you actually have to be at risk to move things? Sure their is suicide ganking but that only happens if your hauling a stupid amount of things or are just unlucky.

If this change was added i would consider a cloaking hauler to move items myself since I am not as inclined to do research to exploit the market under the current landscape.

To ease the transition for players who may be heavily dependent on say building things in Amarr and moving them to Jita or Jita based station traders who can't move things themselves, I propose a few temporary changes to help the transition to a new Eve economy. Every player will get 3 Interbus free move vouchers that can transport 900km3 of items each from any hisec system to another. Players will also get a voucher to move ANY 5 fully assembled ships regardless of cargo. These vouchers would only last for one month.
Additionally the number of direct Hisec-HIsec wormhole connections could be boosted 300%, and over 6 months be slowly brought down to normal levels to assist the redistribution of materials.

Common Arguments:

This would make everyone just live in Jita!


If all hisec players lived in Jita then who would do amarr missions and mine amarr ice/ore?
Not everything can be found in one empire making it nessecary that players spread themselves out evenly.

Every system will be like Rancer

Rancer is Rancer because it is impossible to go around it. Their is only 1 link that connects Minmatar and Caldari space, only one. If new regions are added like I prescribe then it will always be easy to circumvent these camps with a little know how.

This interrupts my playstyle!

Do you really need to do Damsel in Distress once for every faction?
Is it really that big a deal if you now need to sell your products locally instead of at one super hub as an industrialist?

It will all just be jump freightered across the gap!


There are a limited number of jump freighters to move items. At 6bil a pop it will be very difficult to move lots of ships and over the gap constantly. Also with the next patch about to increase fuel prices, such a constant demand for ships jumping will make the JF option less attractive.

If you had the number of jump freighters going back and forth between the empires as you do freightesr autopiloting from amarr to jita, it is likely that the number of pirate dreadnaughts ready to blap you would also go up over time, so obviously a JF isn't totally risk free either.


It is impossible to cross low sec safely and it disrupts traders gameplay!


On the contrary, empire to empire wormholes that can fit freighters and cloaking haulers are available to traders.
Volumes of items being moved to make prices more homogenous will be reduced meaning greater profits will be made each trip making the use of these methods more profitable.

It doesnt make sense lore wise!


WRONG. Borders between enemy nations do not have to be safe and are often not. Security status is not determined by the presence of the empires military but concord's ability to secure those areas. The US Mexico border is a RL example of this, its a desolate desert covered with patrol agents and drug cartel operatives who will sew your genitals to your face and put explosives in them after sending your corpse back to your family.
The borders between allied empires could be also insecure, since they may be frontier areas since this idea comes with adding new regions that disrupt gate travel, these areas would be a frontier, thus not very well secured.


Gate camps aren't fun or pvp!


While mostly true the fact that gate camps exist will provide opportunities for pirates to make money actually pirating.
More importantly the fact that a gate camp is there means that someone will want to come and break it up, encouraging fleet pvp off stations encouraging more fun.


New thread about this topic started in CSM Assembly Hall
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=175823&find=unread

Proposed layout of the new regions and lore explanation
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2234451#post2234451

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

#2 - 2012-11-20 06:51:03 UTC
Because that's not something that happens. Borders between most countries are closely guarded, especially between sworn enemies.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Brute Force Solutions
#3 - 2012-11-20 06:54:40 UTC
Luc Chastot wrote:
Because that's not something that happens. Borders between most countries are closely guarded, especially between sworn enemies.


Closely guarded by concord? You would figure that military presence and a 3rd party police enforcement would be completely unrelated as seen by the current militia situation. Also the gameplay improvement would greatly outweigh any damage to the lore.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

Plucky Adventurers
#4 - 2012-11-20 07:34:42 UTC
join test
concord's not getting in the way of them hitting freighters
300 + so far?
Brute Force Solutions
#5 - 2012-11-20 07:43:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
GizzyBoy wrote:
join test
concord's not getting in the way of them hitting freighters
300 + so far?


Sounds like extremely boring emergent gameplay.

Wouldn't you rather be a pirate in a armada of warships trying to take down the caravan of cargo haulers? Or maybe you and a small band of frigates are cruising the space lanes looking for a lone trader who has stuffed his cargo hold with the federation navy stasis webs that are in short supply in jita.

Instead of filling the freighter, setting destination, clicking autopilot, then halfway their you get your massive ship bumped like a tennis ball underwater while a group of ships 1 shot you which interrupts you watching tv.

I wanna be a pirate, not some guy who runs around looking for asshats running missions to gank or to play grabass with other so called "pirates".

I wanna be a adventurous trader looking to make my fortune using my wits to navigate dangerous deep space without pouring over data tables and spread sheets trying to manipulate prices by moving **** from homogenous trade hub to trade hub.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

Plucky Adventurers
#6 - 2012-11-20 09:24:48 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
GizzyBoy wrote:
join test
concord's not getting in the way of them hitting freighters
300 + so far?


Sounds like extremely boring emergent gameplay.

Wouldn't you rather be a pirate in a armada of warships trying to take down the caravan of cargo haulers? Or maybe you and a small band of frigates are cruising the space lanes looking for a lone trader who has stuffed his cargo hold with the federation navy stasis webs that are in short supply in jita.

Instead of filling the freighter, setting destination, clicking autopilot, then halfway their you get your massive ship bumped like a tennis ball underwater while a group of ships 1 shot you which interrupts you watching tv.

I wanna be a pirate, not some guy who runs around looking for asshats running missions to gank or to play grabass with other so called "pirates".

I wanna be a adventurous trader looking to make my fortune using my wits to navigate dangerous deep space without pouring over data tables and spread sheets trying to manipulate prices by moving **** from homogenous trade hub to trade hub.



I hear somalia is nice this time of year
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-11-20 11:50:26 UTC
I like this idéa a lot.
I feel that Highsec is to secrure as it is. I think people that start playing the game don't really need so much space to learn the ropes of EvE. And those that only likes PvE, could just stay in one section of Highsec and have enough to do. Even if they have to travel to other HighSec-regions there would only be a couple of jumps. Its not THAT hard to survive jumping through LowSec.

I think the Factions will feel more like "real" Factions, with some separation between them. More like "countries" and between them "no mans land."

The possibilites that some corporations will become full-time pirate and that some will be full-time "protectors/merc" etc. sounds exciting, and it would bring some more reason to PvP.
The regions between the HighSec regions will probobly fill up with people wanting to PvP, Pirate or defend. Sounds great.
It even brings people to communicate more with other players, if you need to haul something you probobly want to hire some protection etc.

Maybe a total of 3-4 jumps tops to get through to another HighSec would be enough, longer than that people might not even want to try.

The idéa is great I believe. Just some details to sort out first.
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2012-11-20 13:22:09 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
GizzyBoy wrote:
join test
concord's not getting in the way of them hitting freighters
300 + so far?


Sounds like extremely boring emergent gameplay.

Wouldn't you rather be a pirate in a armada of warships trying to take down the caravan of cargo haulers? Or maybe you and a small band of frigates are cruising the space lanes looking for a lone trader who has stuffed his cargo hold with the federation navy stasis webs that are in short supply in jita.

Instead of filling the freighter, setting destination, clicking autopilot, then halfway their you get your massive ship bumped like a tennis ball underwater while a group of ships 1 shot you which interrupts you watching tv.

I wanna be a pirate, not some guy who runs around looking for asshats running missions to gank or to play grabass with other so called "pirates".

I wanna be a adventurous trader looking to make my fortune using my wits to navigate dangerous deep space without pouring over data tables and spread sheets trying to manipulate prices by moving **** from homogenous trade hub to trade hub.



Hint: All those expensive mods? They'd be jumped directly to a lowsec station one jump out of the target empire's highsec space, and you'd find it even harder to gank them.
#9 - 2012-11-20 14:21:54 UTC
I had thought it was silly for warring factions to have systems intermixed like they are.
If each faction was set up like a target, with the inter most area being the 1.0-0.8 systems, the next ring being 0.7-0.5 systems, after that the security slowly degrades to empire null sec, with only faction warfare low sec systems intermixing, ex Gallente and Caldari low sec would be mixed, but not with minmatar or amarr. And he whole package would be wrapped in sov null sec.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Caldari State
#10 - 2012-11-20 14:39:04 UTC
Gate camping =! True piracy
Brute Force Solutions
#11 - 2012-11-20 17:11:12 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:




Hint: All those expensive mods? They'd be jumped directly to a lowsec station one jump out of the target empire's highsec space, and you'd find it even harder to gank them.


Commander Ted wrote:


Also maybe these new systems that border hisec should be strategically devoid of stations to make it harder for jump freighters to move things? Or perhaps the ability to setup a pos on one of these border areas would create a strategic harbor worth defending from pirates, while the owners of this tower can charge tariffs to cyno at their safe haven.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

Brute Force Solutions
#12 - 2012-11-20 17:12:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Pinky Denmark wrote:
Gate camping =! True piracy

Who says they would gate camp? Secondly their are so many other opportunities to be had pvp wise if more transit was going through lowsec. Also if their were actual gate camps again maybe their would be incentive to break up gate camps.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

#13 - 2012-11-20 19:12:07 UTC
Take a look here, Not quite the same but with the same effects on hauling.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=164340&find=unread

Brute Force Solutions
#14 - 2012-11-20 19:38:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Michael Loney wrote:
Take a look here, Not quite the same but with the same effects on hauling.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=164340&find=unread




Not sure your idea would change anything. So i just have to pay someone to farm level 4's with my alt in fleet and I can go anywhere I please? How about we just ad or rearrange systems? Also I would say you would kill inter empire trade. Certain POS's are needed for certain tasks so it would be likely all hisec industry would be in one empire

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

Brute Force Solutions
#15 - 2012-11-20 20:22:12 UTC
Also perhaps remove gate guns from lowsec in order to promote the use of light tackle and small gang fights. All gate guns do is penalize you for starting fights which discourages fun.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

#16 - 2012-11-20 20:46:45 UTC
How about a faster route between hubs via low sec, possibly via faction war zones (20% of the time or similar?)
-
removing a secure route between empires would be an interesting experiment as it might lead to more insular (within specific empires) game play, if that would be a good thing or not is debatable.

Brute Force Solutions
#17 - 2012-11-20 20:56:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Finn McCaan wrote:
How about a faster route between hubs via low sec, possibly via faction war zones (20% of the time or similar?)
-
removing a secure route between empires would be an interesting experiment as it might lead to more insular (within specific empires) game play, if that would be a good thing or not is debatable.



I think it would definitely be a plus to have insular empires, you would have a stronger sense of "Home" for you and your corporation. In event of a war it would be something a lot more localized. I think it would also build a stronger sense of community between the residence of that area.
When I travel from jita to hek the only thing that changes are the stargates and sky color. If their were an actual barrier for me to cross for me to get their I might have a sense of being somewhere else and im not in my home with home being somewhere very far away. It would make eve feel a lot bigger.

Right now If they condensed hisec into 2-3 systems that had all the asteroid belts, industry slots, and agents I think the only thing that would change are travel times.

Not to mention the alternate routes usually save only 3-5 jumps, those that are any shorter are probably hell camped 24/7 (Rancer, Ammamake)

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2012-11-20 23:25:41 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:




Hint: All those expensive mods? They'd be jumped directly to a lowsec station one jump out of the target empire's highsec space, and you'd find it even harder to gank them.


Commander Ted wrote:


Also maybe these new systems that border hisec should be strategically devoid of stations to make it harder for jump freighters to move things? Or perhaps the ability to setup a pos on one of these border areas would create a strategic harbor worth defending from pirates, while the owners of this tower can charge tariffs to cyno at their safe haven.




So they jump to the gate, or an lowsec system bordering highsec that already exists. or to a pos. Thier own of course, not some trap set up by bored pirates. Or a safespot in an empty system with a webbing alt or two.

It'll take more than this kind of thing to shift the highsec masses into low. Thi just concentrates things in jita more, gives extra money to black frog and the like, and encourages even more people to mission in caldari space, surely?
#19 - 2012-11-21 00:02:09 UTC
Personally, I've always wished it would be like this and wondered why it is not. Given the history of nerfs of mechanics that offer rewards for creative and/or critical thinking, I can't see CCP ever implementing this sadly. It just makes it harder for "casual zombies".

Would be nice to have wild price differences between regions and those who take on the trade possibilities and succeed get handsome reward. Exporting caldari loot from scared bears to other regions would be fun.

Almost makes me mad that all the herpa derps are holding eve back from being this.
Brute Force Solutions
#20 - 2012-11-21 00:03:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Danika Princip wrote:


So they jump to the gate, or an lowsec system bordering highsec that already exists. or to a pos. Thier own of course, not some trap set up by bored pirates. Or a safespot in an empty system with a webbing alt or two.

It'll take more than this kind of thing to shift the highsec masses into low. Thi just concentrates things in jita more, gives extra money to black frog and the like, and encourages even more people to mission in caldari space, surely?


Of course if everything that is transported through lowsec is moved by jump freighter then fuel costs will surely cause a price differential. Also if you have to setup a pos in order to get your freighter through then that pos would make a nice target for someone who wants less competition moving items. I also figure a good pirate organization would have a good opportunity to use a machariel to bump a jump freighter off a stargate if he deployed his cyno directly on it, adding extra risk to using your multibillion isk hauler. Have you ever cyno'ed anything before? Cyno's can be seen throughout an entire solar system and a light tackling ship could easily warp in and grab you jump freighter if you try to move it in a safespot. Also who is to say that those current systems bordering hisec would border it anymore? Really this feature depends on striking a balance between to few and to many entry points into hisec.

If more people mission in caldari space then ill make more isk from lp missioning elsewhere. If anything jita would begin to shrink since it isn't the cheapest place to buy certain items anymore. Maybe industry would be more biased to gallente space because cheaper fuel costs for a gallente pos. Also this is not a nerf hisec/ buff low thread, hisec will be just as safe as ever, maybe unreasonably scared bears will just have a harder time swapping regions.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

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